[sennsay]

I think the only unit that was tested was his personal one. I think alot of it comes down to personal preferences. the measurements clearly show that the magni 3 distorts much earlier than amps like the topping that are rated for less power. this makes the magni 3 seem brighter, but to more sensitive ears the distortion causes bad grainy harmonics. to less sensitive ears it gives the magni 3 that sparlke and faux clearness that many seem to like. this could be a design flaw, or somthing intentional to balance out the output of the multibit dacs. i would not rule out manufacturing varieties either bc well very cheap product. The o2 amp seems to suffer from this as well bc i’ve seen very different reviews from people that either built their own or gotten ones from massdrop or jds or mayflower etc. also cheap product. looks like these all might just be lottery products.

No distortion, 'faux clearness', bad pot, graininess, noise, lack of power ( I regularly run my 600 ohm Ref1s to 4 o'clock without edge, fatigue, brightness, distortion) or need to balance out a multibit DAC with the Magni 3 I have here. I've said enough to clearly show that I have an absolute cracker of an amp, as has Steven Stone, mentioned in my last post (and others).
If all those negative issues is truly the experience of others here, and NOT because of limitations in the electronics, cables and whatever else before the amp, let alone edgy headphones and cables, then maybe there is a QC issue with some items. Possibly too there could be the quality of the mains entering the equation, as has been mentioned not so far back here in the thread. My systems are utterly silent.
I have just come back to the A-gd R2R as DAC into Magni 3 and Ref1s after some hours away, popped on some classical music and it is nothing less than musical joy. The tiniest of tings on a triangle are suspended in black space at a very low level, the expression of duller ting nearer the hand holding it, compared to the ringing tap on the bottom is so effortless to hear, creating it's own ambient resonance into the surrounding space. Strings are rich and sonorously resonant as they should be. I can 'look' right into the very depths of the soundstage. If you are not getting these sorts of results, then you are certainly not getting the best from your Magni 3 and I wish you well in your journey to create whatever you want from your system.

 

[BrotherKathos]

No distortion, 'faux clearness', bad pot, graininess, noise, lack of power ( I regularly run my 600 ohm Ref1s to 4 o'clock without edge, fatigue, brightness, distortion) or need to balance out a multibit DAC with the Magni 3 I have here. I've said enough to clearly show that I have an absolute cracker of an amp, as has Steven Stone, mentioned in my last post (and others).
If all those negative issues is truly the experience of others here, and NOT because of limitations in the electronics, cables and whatever else before the amp, let alone edgy headphones and cables, then maybe there is a QC issue with some items. Possibly too there could be the quality of the mains entering the equation, as has been mentioned not so far back here in the thread. My systems are utterly silent.
I have just come back to the A-gd R2R as DAC into Magni 3 and Ref1s after some hours away, popped on some classical music and it is nothing less than musical joy. The tiniest of tings on a triangle are suspended in black space at a very low level, the expression of duller ting nearer the hand holding it, compared to the ringing tap on the bottom is so effortless to hear, creating it's own ambient resonance into the surrounding space. Strings are rich and sonorously resonant as they should be. I can 'look' right into the very depths of the soundstage. If you are not getting these sorts of results, then you are certainly not getting the best from your Magni 3 and I wish you well in your journey to create whatever you want from your system.

It might be a qc issue. The problem is the variance in peoples ears. Some people just zero in on certain frequencies others do not. I might have mentioned in the thread earlier that i've returned 3 different hp amps for either noise or shrill highs. Two were essence hdacc 4k, and one was a teac ud-301. The hdacc both had low level hiss that was constantly present as soon as the unit even powered up. No other amps i've ever had had that issue and the ceo of the company, while half admitting that there was a small amount of hiss there, said the units were both working to spec. The teac was just shrill garbage and makes the magi 3 look heavenly by comparison.

What you said about a black background at low volumes actually parallels the audiosciencereview measurrement thread. He also found the magni 3 fine and silent at low volumes as do I. The magni 3 only gets shrill as you raise the volume and the distortion kicks in. What you perceive as musical joy as you crank up the volume is most likely a by product of the distortion adding high frequency material leading to a percieved increase in sound stage. But unless you sent your unit in for testing by the same test bench who really knows? As far as the journey to find the right spot for the Magni 3 I believe I have found it. It works well as a bedside hp amp for streaming tidal hifi from my iphone. The magni 3 in that application provides a subtle increase in sound quality over the iphone's internal amp and pairs well with the low 23 ohm and easy to drive Sennheiser HD 598 Cs. I can only theorize that the lower fidelity dac of the iphone tames the overabundant magni 3 treble and since its a an easy to drive headphone the magni 3 does not distort much even as i raise the volume more. This setup is buttery smooth and I have been enjoying the Blade runner Soundtrack from Vangellis this morning I just don't recommend transparent sabre dacs for the magni 3 for any potential buyers. Stick to multibit or maybe the 'velvety' AKM dacs with this amp. It also makes me think schiit knows about this brightness since the only dacs they offer are multibit and AKM. Coincidence?

 

[sennsay]

I shall make no apologies in disagreeing with the comments re soundstage increase due to raised volume and distortion That is not my experience at all. Whether I use low volume or higher volumes, the soundstage is just as deep and open and I do not get any shrillness from increased volume and background noise is still silent. I have done that very thing this evening, with both classical and rock at low and high levels, my musical joy being a result of the system synergy, connected with the best I have available, not increasing distortion. If I wanted that, I would have kept the Valhalla 2. My personal hearing response is great from 20Hz up to 14KHz, rolling off thereafter. The only way I get 'brightness' as an artefact from my Magni 3 is by connecting a source that that is not the smoothest of kit and that is certainly not the fault of the M3, it's just telling it like it is. The same goes for various recordings, yet even thinner recordings still sound like human beings and the recording engineer needs a good slap. Especially so for women vocalists.
I still recommend better cables for your cans! There are very good reasons I use Mogami cable for almost all of my headphones; transparency, extension, linearity and utter silence between notes, they are not used in the best studios for nothing! Meantime, I will continue to explore the world of music through the Magni 3 and associated kit, not in the least bothered by any shrill brightness as I turn the volume up. If that were happening, there is no way I could listen to Ricki Lee Jones' vocal dynamic power in all it's fabulous purity at 7-8 from 10 on the M3, it would be out the door with no looking back. The modern Sennheisers are not as linear as the HD540 Reference cans, especially with the pads I use and the Mogami cable. The HD6xx went out the door, they could not match their 29 year old ancestors in anything other than some slight extra detailing in the upper midband. They were also a little peaky in that area, something I don't like.
Steven Stone's article on the Magni 3in the previously mentioned Absolute Sound's Ultimate Headphone Guide is well worth reading. He nails it. Page 121.

 

[BrotherKathos]

I shall make no apologies in disagreeing with the comments re soundstage increase due to raised volume and distortion That is not my experience at all. Whether I use low volume or higher volumes, the soundstage is just as deep and open and I do not get any shrillness from increased volume and background noise is still silent. I have done that very thing this evening, with both classical and rock at low and high levels, my musical joy being a result of the system synergy, connected with the best I have available, not increasing distortion. If I wanted that, I would have kept the Valhalla 2. My personal hearing response is great from 20Hz up to 14KHz, rolling off thereafter. The only way I get 'brightness' as an artefact from my Magni 3 is by connecting a source that that is not the smoothest of kit and that is certainly not the fault of the M3, it's just telling it like it is. The same goes for various recordings, yet even thinner recordings still sound like human beings and the recording engineer needs a good slap. Especially so for women vocalists.
I still recommend better cables for your cans! There are very good reasons I use Mogami cable for almost all of my headphones; transparency, extension, linearity and utter silence between notes, they are not used in the best studios for nothing! Meantime, I will continue to explore the world of music through the Magni 3 and associated kit, not in the least bothered by any shrill brightness as I turn the volume up. If that were happening, there is no way I could listen to Ricki Lee Jones' vocal dynamic power in all it's fabulous purity at 7-8 from 10 on the M3, it would be out the door with no looking back. The modern Sennheisers are not as linear as the HD540 Reference cans, especially with the pads I use and the Mogami cable. The HD6xx went out the door, they could not match their 29 year old ancestors in anything other than some slight extra detailing in the upper midband. They were also a little peaky in that area, something I don't like.
Steven Stone's article on the Magni 3in the previously mentioned Absolute Sound's Ultimate Headphone Guide is well worth reading. He nails it. Page 121.

It sounds like its just the difference in our ears since i hear clearly to 16.5K(youtube fr test so not the most clinical) before rollong off. what i find uncomfortable in the magi you might not hear at all i guess? Thats why a large market is good, something for everyone.

 

[BrotherKathos]

It sounds like its just the difference in our ears since i hear clearly to 16.5K(youtube fr test so not the most clinical) before rollong off. what i find uncomfortable in the magi you might not hear at all i guess? Thats why a large market is good, something for everyone.

its funny you mention better cables as I got some custom mogami cables for the he-400i and it made a slight impact, but definitely didn’t affect the harshness of the treble.

 

[sennsay]

It sounds like its just the difference in our ears since i hear clearly to 16.5K before rollong off. what i find uncomfortable in the magi you might not hear at all i guess? Thats why a large market is good, something for everyone.

I also forgot to (re)mention that the Mimby/Magni 3 pairing still sounds at it's finest through the Optical input, rather than the USB input which is merely very good, but it's not an Amanero Combo job, or the latest version on the Yggy. It makes a difference. Remember too that I use silver cables that cost more some years ago than the Modi Multibit does now, they don't editorialise, just say it as it is. They let a lot through!

 

[sennsay]

its funny you mention better cables as I got some custom mogami cables for the he-400i and it made a slight impact, but definitely didn’t affect the harshness of the treble.

The Mogami cable isn't a tone control It is linearly extended and neutral. I agree with you, the effect on the HD6xx I had was an improvement for sure, did not remove the lower treble peak, yet certainly opened up the bass extension and removed most of that somewhat pinched-to-the-centre soundstage of the stock cable.
The treble peak did become less noticeable and I could hear past it a little easier. Every time I went back to the stock cable though, it did not stay on for long. It had the same effect when I shifted it to the HD540 Ref1s for a while. Although it wasn't bad, the Mogami is way better with the Ref1s in creating that 'head and gear' disappearing act, to a lesser extent on the HD6xx. I still couldn't live with them, I'd always end up with the Ref1s on my head and there they'd stay.
You see, you can't just make one little step and expect your whole system to evolve into something else again. It more often than not takes a series of small steps, sometimes slight, sometimes larger improvements that overall add up to a system sounding really great. I'm familiar with the process over a 45 year period starting from when I was 17 years old. I met great people that taught me a lot along the way, which I in turn could share with others.
You don't need hearing to bat level to know when something is bright or dull or distorting, one of my biggest teachers was a man who was deaf in one ear, could still play a piano perfectly and could hear the distortion on a cartridge when the turntable arm was a millimetre or two too high. He was always correct, drop that arm a couple of mil and the sound would snap into focus. He was also into his 70's at the time!
I still tune turntables like that to this day when needed. It's the sum of the parts that make a great listening experience, I've heard huge Infinity speakers that cost as much as my house did that were not a jot as satisfying in that system as the carefully crafted, tuned and vastly cheaper system I had in my home.
So many folks expect a new bit of kit to be great from day one just because it may have got good reviews and are disappointed when it isn't fabulous immediately. A very very rare thing! It's still the 'instant gratification' generational thing. All deeply connecting relationships, whether with a hifi system or another human being, take time to develop.
The Mogami cable is just one aspect that adds to the whole, as do the Slinkylinks interconnects, the pleather pads on the Ref1s, a decent optical cable from the QP1R to the Mimby etc.

 

[BrotherKathos]

The Mogami cable isn't a tone control It is linearly extended and neutral. I agree with you, the effect on the HD6xx I had was an improvement for sure, did not remove the lower treble peak, yet certainly opened up the bass extension and removed most of that somewhat pinched-to-the-centre soundstage of the stock cable.
The treble peak did become less noticeable and I could hear past it a little easier. Every time I went back to the stock cable though, it did not stay on for long. It had the same effect when I shifted it to the HD540 Ref1s for a while. Although it wasn't bad, the Mogami is way better with the Ref1s in creating that 'head and gear' disappearing act, to a lesser extent on the HD6xx. I still couldn't live with them, I'd always end up with the Ref1s on my head and there they'd stay.

I also noticed the same thing in bass response with the mogami cable. I also got one of the new fantasia or whatever cable from amazon for the 598 cs and the bass was much improved over the stock 3m cable. Bigger difference than the stock he-400i cable. I’m curious to how I’ll like the HDxx. I’ve got one coming in october, so I’ll see how it does with the magni 3 then. I’ve got a pair of audeze lcd2c coming today as well so i also will test the magni with the sabre dacs one last time to see if that is a good match.

 

[BrotherKathos]

I just got the Audeze LCD-2C. I hooked them up to the magni 3 and put on a song that i'd been listening to with the hd 598 Cs and the iphone. I turned up the volume to get to the same volume level as before. I only needed around 8:45 for the 598 cs. I needed about 1:00 for the Audeze. Immediately I noticed the grainy shrill harmonics and lack of bass from the Magni 3. Sounded awful. I immediately switched the phones to my SU-8 and o2 amp setup and retested. I only needed 9:00 to get to the same volume with the O2 amp on 1.0x gain!? I think I must have really gotten a schiit unit, because not only was the O2 able to power the planars easier, I was able to hear more of the recording since the sound was not so shrill and grainy. Magni 3 sounds like a piece of schiit for sure on the LCD-2C. I think this all but proves the magni 3 having very distorted sound as you raise the volume. this is at least the case on my unit and others that report brightness as well as the test unit from audiosciencereview. I wonder if schiit would be willing to take my unit back under warranty to at least test this?

 

[Topmounter]

Are you guys running the Magni 3 on the high or low gain setting? It just occurred to me this morning after my first cup of coffee that I had forgotten about this switch and have had it set to low since receiving my Magni 3 last week. Set to 'HI', the progression on the volume knob now feels 'normal' to me. Still nothing harsh or untoward w/ the HE4xx's after a few songs, but comfortable listening levels are well within what I would call the 'sweet spot' of the volume pot now (~10 to 2 o'clock) with plenty of opportunity for hearing damage remaining.

I just ran the High Freq Range Test at audiocheck.net, I starting hearing the tone at 16k, but it kicks in 100% at 14k (HE4xx).

 

[BrotherKathos]

Are you guys running the Magni 3 on the high or low gain setting? It just occurred to me this morning after my first cup of coffee that I had forgotten about this switch and have had it set to low since receiving my Magni 3 last week. Set to 'HI', the progression on the volume knob now feels 'normal' to me now. Still nothing harsh or untoward w/ the HE4xx's after a few songs, but comfortable listening levels are well within what I would call the 'sweet spot' of the volume pot now (~10 to 2 o'clock) with plenty of opportunity for hearing damage remaining.

I just ran the High Freq Range Test at audiocheck.net, I starting hearing the tone at 16k, but it kicks in 100% at 14k (HE4xx).

I'm running low gain. That's what I usually do since I want the lowest noise floor possible and I don't really listen to music very loud. Usually ranges from 68-80 db for me when I listen to music.

 

[Slashn77]

I'm running low gain. That's what I usually do since I want the lowest noise floor possible and I don't really listen to music very loud. Usually ranges from 68-80 db for me when I listen to music.

I would try high gain, put your computers main volume to 80-88 and then turn your amp knob to where you want the volume and make fine adjustments using the main windows volume.

I find sometimes amps sound with a bit more glare and congestion if I keep the windows 10 volume at 100

 

[BrotherKathos]

I would try high gain, put your computers main volume to 80-88 and then turn your amp knob to where you want the volume and make fine adjustments using the main windows volume.

I find sometimes amps sound with a bit more glare and congestion if I keep the windows 10 volume at 100

I'll try that. Thanks for the suggestion Slash. I at least like the magni 3 with the 598s with my iphone hehe. I just tried the LCD-2C with my other setup and it sounds amazing paired with the Topping D50 and JDS Labs EL Amp. The D50 is one killer little dac for $250. Blows the Yggy away as far a measurements go and lots of other high priced dacs as well. Even the 1k rme adi dac does not do as well against it.

 

[sennsay]

Are you guys running the Magni 3 on the high or low gain setting? It just occurred to me this morning after my first cup of coffee that I had forgotten about this switch and have had it set to low since receiving my Magni 3 last week. Set to 'HI', the progression on the volume knob now feels 'normal' to me. Still nothing harsh or untoward w/ the HE4xx's after a few songs, but comfortable listening levels are well within what I would call the 'sweet spot' of the volume pot now (~10 to 2 o'clock) with plenty of opportunity for hearing damage remaining.

I just ran the High Freq Range Test at audiocheck.net, I starting hearing the tone at 16k, but it kicks in 100% at 14k (HE4xx).

Yes, Topmounter, the HE400s have a peaky treble, although in my case it's still clean, just an exposed area that sets off some frequencies as a bit too much with some music. They are more even through the QP1R, although will still show that slight treble exposure with some music, even if it's incredibly clean. In fact, Random Access Memories sounded fantastic through that set up last night while I was doing some late evening housework The quality of the bass was fantastically good, such pitch definition and detail! You really need the Focus A pads to get the best from these cans and that seems to be the general opinion from almost all those who use them. A worthwhile and fairly cheap upgrade.

** I forgot to mention that I get no noise at high gain and high volume! That's with either the R2R or Mimby DACs. It may be just the amps response with the 600 ohm Ref1s, but since that's what I use as my no 1 cans .....
I think there are folks here that don't bother reading the previous posts, just too busy to post their immediate thoughts, I'm guessing. The Magni 3 has the same output impedance regardless of where the gain switch is set, so that in itself is a non issue. Schiit themselves recommend using high gain for most cans, only the more sensitive ones requiring LOW gain. I rarely use it with any of my headphones, the Sony MDR-1Rs excepted, but being a little highlighted in the mids and part of the treble themselves, there are better amps for them ... like the Sony home theatre amps! They too have responded to the use of Mogami cable.

The number of guys here that buy brand new headphones and expect them to sound amazing right out of the box - especially with revealing amps - is simply not smart. I so often just shake my head ... maybe it's the enthusiasm of youth

I think the Yggy guys will vehemently disagree with you about the Yggy specs telling them how it will sound! Still, it's an old way of looking at things that has been well shown to be only a part of the story. Go and READ the Yggy 2 thread and see what they think about their Yggys, I can assure you they will just laugh and continue listening with their jaws slack in awe, amazed grins on their faces, or simply lost in sheer musical pleasure. I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

 

[BrotherKathos]

Yes, Topmounter, the HE400s have a peaky treble, although in my case it's still clean, just an exposed area that sets off some frequencies as a bit too much with some music. They are more even through the QP1R, although will still show that slight treble exposure with some music, even if it's incredibly clean. In fact, Random Access Memories sounded fantastic through that set up last night while I was doing some late evening housework The quality of the bass was fantastically good, such pitch definition and detail! You really need the Focus A pads to get the best from these cans and that seems to be the general opinion from almost all those who use them. A worthwhile and fairly cheap upgrade.

** I forgot to mention that I get no noise at high gain and high volume! That's with either the R2R or Mimby DACs. It may be just the amps response with the 600 ohm Ref1s, but since that's what I use as my no 1 cans .....
I think there are folks here that don't bother reading the previous posts, just too busy to post their immediate thoughts, I'm guessing. The Magni 3 has the same output impedance regardless of where the gain switch is set, so that in itself is a non issue. Schiit themselves recommend using high gain for most cans, only the more sensitive ones requiring LOW gain. I rarely use it with any of my headphones, the Sony MDR-1Rs excepted, but being a little highlighted in the mids and part of the treble themselves, there are better amps for them ... like the Sony home theatre amps! They too have responded to the use of Mogami cable.

The number of guys here that buy brand new headphones and expect them to sound amazing right out of the box - especially with revealing amps - is simply not smart. I so often just shake my head ... maybe it's the enthusiasm of youth

I think the Yggy guys will vehemently disagree with you about the Yggy specs telling them how it will sound! Still, it's an old way of looking at things that has been well shown to be only a part of the story. Go and READ the Yggy 2 thread and see what they think about their Yggys, I can assure you they will just laugh and continue listening with their jaws slack in awe, amazed grins on their faces, or simply lost in sheer musical pleasure. I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

I took slash’s advice and tried the Lcd-2c on high gain on the magni 3. It makes finding my optimal volume level much more difficult since the knob is not the smoothest and I have to adjust it very carefully or i’ll either get too much volume or the low volume channel imbalance. You might not be aware, but Audeze ‘burns in’ their phones at the factory so they are ready to go when the customer recieves them. I honestly dont put much faith in burn in. It might make some extremely small difference, but its not going to turn water into wine.

Schiit have their own philosophy as they are even against dsd, and dont seem to care about how thier stuff measures anyway. Why else would they use tubes so much? No tube setup is ever going to measure well against ss and colors the sound alot, but people still love that coloring. This is why people like the Yggy as well. Its not the equipment recording artists would use, but its great for the causal audiophile looking for a change and is apparently very ‘natural and organic’. I’ve never heard one so i can’t make any statements on its SQ, but if I spent 2.4k on a dac I’d really want to like it too hehe.

Back to the magni though. On high gain once I’m able to get the volume right, I actually do notice a significant improvement in the amp. It sounds much more like my other headphone amps and has lost 90% of the harshness from before. I really have to thank slash for that. Such a simple fix. I wonder why the gain setting makes such a difference in the magni 3? my o2 and El amp both sound the same regardless of gain settings. the only thing that changes with them is the volume sensitivity, not the actual sound reproduction. I’ve got the Lcd-2c hooked to it and these things are smooth as silk. By far the best headphones i’ve ever heard. I cant wait to get the thx aaa amp for them, but in the meantime the magni 3 will do