[Shike]

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Originally Posted by Feather225 /img/forum/go_quote.gif So great, if the brand represents quality, why bother where the products are made?

Ethics, political, and economic issues.

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Also I believe "you deserve what you offered," I just hate when people complaint about the products' quality when they paid peanuts for them.

Agreed to some extent, but it's really neither here nor there.

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Actually, its funny that I have not yet came across a laptop thats not made in China.. maybe bcs Ive only been using macs..

Yeah, Apple "designs" in the US and manufactures in China. Others also use Taiwan (actually, that's where many motherboard manufactures are based).

And the CPU is probably manufactured in Malaysia if it's an Intel. So the origins of the parts of the unit differ too.

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Originally Posted by Ninkul Chinese made products are cheaper. Theres a large number of high quality products that China produces and theres also a large number of low quality products that China produces. Same goes with any country.

Very true. However China is still going through teething marks in regards to business laws that cause a lot of issues. Namely the fact that it's almost impossible to stop a shop selling bad goods as many people looking for quality tooling for assemblies know.

That's why checking quality on supplied parts among other things is extremely important when it comes to manufacturing, assembly, and electronics.

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Originally Posted by MrGreen Just be thankful it wasnt made in america.

Oh, and why should we be?

 

[CherryBomb]

My kid came out with stamped with "made in China" on his butt; made me real suspicious of the wife.

 

[Feather225]

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Originally Posted by Shike /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah, Apple "designs" in the US and manufactures in China. Others also use Taiwan (actually, that's where many motherboard manufactures are based). And the CPU is probably manufactured in Malaysia if it's an Intel. So the origins of the parts of the unit differ too.

Well, on the other hand China makes around 80% of the world's photocopiers, 65% of the world's mobile phones, 60% of its digital cameras, 50% of its computers and 45% of its microwaves.

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Originally Posted by Shike /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ethics, political, and economic issues.

or just stereotype? how many people understand the political and economic issues~

 

[Feather225]

BTW I am a half Chinese, Half Japanese product made in Zimbabwe.

 

[RallyMaster]

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Originally Posted by Shike /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ethics, political, and economic issues. Agreed to some extent, but it's really neither here nor there. Yeah, Apple "designs" in the US and manufactures in China. Others also use Taiwan (actually, that's where many motherboard manufactures are based). And the CPU is probably manufactured in Malaysia if it's an Intel. So the origins of the parts of the unit differ too. Very true. However China is still going through teething marks in regards to business laws that cause a lot of issues. Namely the fact that it's almost impossible to stop a shop selling bad goods as many people looking for quality tooling for assemblies know. That's why checking quality on supplied parts among other things is extremely important when it comes to manufacturing, assembly, and electronics. Oh, and why should we be?

Query: Have you been to China and actually lived there? By live, I do not mean "visit," but rather working, eating and sleeping amongst everyone there.

If answer is no, you are only telling us what the Western media wants you to see. I understand if you object to China's socioeconomic policies but I do not think any country in the world would be much different with 56 ethnic groups and 1.3 billion people within its borders.

Goods made in China cost less because the supply of labor is much larger than it is in any other country (except perhaps India) and therefore, the price per unit of labor is much lower than it is in the United States for the same type of job. This is why American flags are made in China because people would rather pay $5 per flag than pay $35 per flag (approximated from rounding up the current dollar to renminbi exchange rate). In China, 3000RMB a month will buy you about the same type of stuff that you could buy in the US for $3000 a month except a Chinese produced/grown/designed equivalent. Is it worse in quality than the equivalent item in the US? Probably not. It's just different.

 

[davidhunternyc]

I just saw a documentary about a bead factory in China. The workers make colored metallic beads out of out toxic petroleum products for Mardi Gras in New Orleans. It takes 3 months of labor for a worker in China to afford one string of plastic beads. The owner of the factory makes millions of dollars a year while the workers work like slaves without any rights. Talking is punished. Going to the bathroom is punished. Now, we wonder about the build quality of our headphones...

http://www.carnivalesquefilms.com/Mardi_Gras.html

 

[RallyMaster]

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Originally Posted by davidhunternyc /img/forum/go_quote.gif I just saw a documentary about a bead factory in China. The workers make colored metallic beads out of out toxic petroleum products for Mardi Gras in New Orleans. It takes 3 months of labor for a worker in China to afford one string of plastic beads. The owner of the factory makes millions of dollars a year while the workers work like slaves without any rights. Talking is punished. Going to the bathroom is punished. Now, we wonder about the build quality of our headphones...

When was this and where was this?

 

[gr33nhand]

Srh840 is also made in China . How's its quality ?

 

[CherryBomb]

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Originally Posted by gr33nhand /img/forum/go_quote.gif Χ¹ÛÂ¥Ö÷£¬shure srh840ͬÑùÔÚÖйúÖÆÔ죬ÇëÎÊËüÖÊÁ¿ÔõôÑù£¿sony PSP Ò²ÊÇÔÚÖйúÖÆÔ죬ÇëÎÊËüÖÊÁ¿ÔõôÑù£¿ ÖйúÖÆÔìµÄ¶«Î÷³ÉǧÉÏÍò£¬ÕæÕý´æÔÚÎÊÌâµÄÒ²Ö»ÊǼ«ÉÙÊý ¶øÒÑ£¡

What?

 

[Feather225]

Well, I live in Miami, do you wanna hear stories about slavery in Florida farms? its worse than China, you will be surprised.


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Originally Posted by davidhunternyc /img/forum/go_quote.gif I just saw a documentary about a bead factory in China. The workers make colored metallic beads out of out toxic petroleum products for Mardi Gras in New Orleans. It takes 3 months of labor for a worker in China to afford one string of plastic beads. The owner of the factory makes millions of dollars a year while the workers work like slaves without any rights. Talking is punished. Going to the bathroom is punished. Now, we wonder about the build quality of our headphones... Carnivalesque Films » Mardi Gras: Made in China

 

[MadMan007]

@Shike - just FYI CPUs aren't 'made' in super cheap labor countries, they are packaged there - the bare die put on to the substrate, caps added etc. Intel always has and likely always will have their most advanced silicon fabs in the US.

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Originally Posted by Feather225 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Even MACs are made in China. Quality of goods made in China improved significantly these years. Try not stereotype it. Think about the perception of products made in Japan 30 years ago and today. The only permanent thing is change.

You need to go back further than 30 years I think and it depends upon the product too, perhaps for cars you're right. But go look at some 30 year old vintage audio gear made in Japan...they were doing original SOTA at that time. That's one thing China really hasn't come to terms with yet is doing advanced original R&D and making new products.

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Originally Posted by Seaside /img/forum/go_quote.gif You're free to bash or advocate the stuff based on its performance, not based on where it is made. There's nothing wrong with made in where ever as long as the stuff performs as expected, and after all, that's how we get stuff at cheap price. It simply is kind of hard to find something that is not made in china in these days. I just kind of surprised when the wife's name brand leather sleepers is made in china while my dirty snickers is made in italy. You just never know till you actually take a look at it.

Call me crazy but I didn't know there was any rule on this forum on what one is allowed to base one's opinion upon.

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Originally Posted by RallyMaster /img/forum/go_quote.gif Query: Have you been to China and actually lived there? By live, I do not mean "visit," but rather working, eating and sleeping amongst everyone there. If answer is no, you are only telling us what the Western media wants you to see. I understand if you object to China's socioeconomic policies but I do not think any country in the world would be much different with 56 ethnic groups and 1.3 billion people within its borders. Goods made in China cost less because the supply of labor is much larger than it is in any other country (except perhaps India) and therefore, the price per unit of labor is much lower than it is in the United States for the same type of job. This is why American flags are made in China because people would rather pay $5 per flag than pay $35 per flag (approximated from rounding up the current dollar to renminbi exchange rate). In China, 3000RMB a month will buy you about the same type of stuff that you could buy in the US for $3000 a month except a Chinese produced/grown/designed equivalent. Is it worse in quality than the equivalent item in the US? Probably not. It's just different.

You've got a bit of a point but it's way too oversimplified to say foreign labor costs in USD are purely supply&demand driven. I guess it's great for a consumer whore economy that we can buy more sh** because he with the most toys wins life right? But that's not the full story when it comes to a real economy unless lots of people will enjoy being Walmart employees. Henry Ford new that besides a market he needed people who could buy his cars and he paid his workers so that they were able to do so, today there's a short-term maximize profit damn the future mentality that's worrisome.

 

[Shike]

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Originally Posted by Feather225 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, on the other hand China makes around 80% of the world's photocopiers, 65% of the world's mobile phones, 60% of its digital cameras, 50% of its computers and 45% of its microwaves.

Yes, and as I said it really comes down to whether the company that has the product made there makes sure it's done right. I've seen great and horrible products in all those areas made in China.

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or just stereotype? how many people understand the political and economic issues~

Well I wouldn't say that there aren't many that stereotype. However I think many have a greater grasp than you give them too.

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Originally Posted by RallyMaster Query: Have you been to China and actually lived there? By live, I do not mean "visit," but rather working, eating and sleeping amongst everyone there.

No. However it doesn't really help your point either way after reading it.

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If answer is no, you are only telling us what the Western media wants you to see. I understand if you object to China's socioeconomic policies but I do not think any country in the world would be much different with 56 ethnic groups and 1.3 billion people within its borders.

What is it that the "Western Media" wants us to see? That there are flaws in the system, just like every other one out there?

My dad and various relatives work with imports and tooling in China. Generally speaking there's been more problems than dealing with US companies depending on the items or specifications that had to be met.

As for whether any other country would be different, it's irrelevant. I don't want to theorize ifs. It is what it is.

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Goods made in China cost less because the supply of labor is much larger than it is in any other country (except perhaps India) and therefore, the price per unit of labor is much lower than it is in the United States for the same type of job. This is why American flags are made in China because people would rather pay $5 per flag than pay $35 per flag (approximated from rounding up the current dollar to renminbi exchange rate). In China, 3000RMB a month will buy you about the same type of stuff that you could buy in the US for $3000 a month except a Chinese produced/grown/designed equivalent. Is it worse in quality than the equivalent item in the US? Probably not. It's just different.

I'm familiar with why the labor is cheaper, that doesn't take a degree to figure out (well actually it's a bit more complex than that, but let's move past that since it's really irrelevant). As for whether the quality is worse or not: it depends. What material is it made out of? What dyes were used? Were the materials sourced internally or imported?

The questions hold much more meaning on more complex and higher dollar items. It's not uncommon to find underspecified capacitors, fake transistors, and other issues. We could also talk about bolts and bearing being way out of tolerance, yield, and lifespan expectancy if you want.

Generally speaking, components that are sourced from inside the country tend to lack consistency which can cause a huge problem. If the manufacturer understands this and sources parts known for being consistent in quality (yes, that usually means importing) then it's usually not an issue. If you get one that insists on substituting because it's "equivalent" (even though when stressed they often aren't) then you're usually going to have issues.

It's the latter example that gives China a bad name in terms of product quality. Once again though, this does not address issues mentioned earlier.


As for your salary buying a "Chinese made equivalent" of a US item. You generally are looking at the latter example again. It's also not unheard of that many of the products sold infringe on intellectual property held by others. Should we include the fact that bootlegged material is prevalent too?

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Originally Posted by MadMan007 @Shike - just FYI CPUs aren't 'made' in super cheap labor countries, they are packaged there - the bare die put on to the substrate, caps added etc. Intel always has and likely always will have their most advanced silicon fabs in the US.

Ah, that is true. I should say they're assembled there, right? ^_^'

 

[Feather225]

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Originally Posted by MadMan007 /img/forum/go_quote.gif You need to go back further than 30 years I think and it depends upon the product too, perhaps for cars you're right. But go look at some 30 year old vintage audio gear made in Japan...they were doing original SOTA at that time. That's one thing China really hasn't come to terms with yet is doing advanced original R&D and making new products.

Do you know that 200 years ago, every country purchases stuff from China because of quality? Oh, in that case, lets go back further even 5000 years. no history existed but CHINA.

What I'm trying to say is people have to see improvements instead of been stereotype.

 

[MadMan007]

Feather - Not arguing with you man, just saying that the 'Japan 30 years ago' thing wasn't quite right

...it's easy to forget we are really at 2010 not 2000. I think you need to go back about 20 more years than that, of course the country was coming out of rebuilding post-WWII at that point. Also I wanted to point out one significant difference, especially with the timeframe that you gave, versus stuff made in China today and that is the large amount of original R&D versus largely derivative work that's done in China today.

 

[Feather225]

Well, it all comes down to perceptions. I am leaning towards Chinese workers because I embrace my ethnicity as well as the fact that I have seen many very hard working Chinese workers working 12 hours a day and getting paid at very low rate. At the same time, taking blames from Americans who pays little and complaints about quality.


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Originally Posted by Shike /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, and as I said it really comes down to whether the company that has the product made there makes sure it's done right. I've seen great and horrible products in all those areas made in China. Well I wouldn't say that there aren't many that stereotype. However I think many have a greater grasp than you give them too.