[electropop]

Quote:

 
"Mr. Speakers sent one of his Mad Dog modified Fostex T50RP headphones in for a measure and a listen. While certainly better than most modded T50RPs, they sounded a tad dry relative to the lush smoothness of LFF's Paradox or the Smeggy Thunderpants." - Tyll
 
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AllGraphs.pdf
 
Looking at the graphs, the Paradox seems more linear. I doubt the difference between them is big enough to warrant using them for entirely different genres or such, though, as they are based on the same headphone. Paradox should also be a can (I know MD is, for me anyway) that can take any genre you throw at it. Do take into account the difference in price also. That and the fact that Dan is a phenomenal guy to deal with; I have and will not have any regrets buying the MD's.

 
Mmm, dry bass. Now that actually sounds good. Any lushness and it's good bye Erroneous. 

 

[DaveBSC]

Quote:

Looking at the graphs, the Paradox seems more linear. I doubt the difference between them is big enough to warrant using them for entirely different genres or such, though, as they are based on the same headphone. Paradox should also be a can (I know MD is, for me anyway) that can take any genre you throw at it. Do take into account the difference in price also. That and the fact that Dan is a phenomenal guy to deal with; I have and will not have any regrets buying the MD's.

 
Indeed, for a sealed headphone the Paradox is astonishingly neutral. I don't think there is another sealed can, made by anyone, for any price, that does it better. The Paradox adapts very well to pretty much anything you throw at it, it's definitely not a "specialized" headphone. There are very few clues that it started life as a $75 Fostex. The headstage is moderate, it can't go way out of the head the way some very high-end open headphones can. It also can't match the air of an electrostat, but that's true of any ortho, and what the Paradox lacks in treble it more than makes up for in bass.
 
I don't want to in any way disparage what Dan is doing with the MD though. The Paradox costs nearly twice as much, and the wait could be 3 weeks or more.

 

[gelocks]

I have to say it again, the MIDS on these cans are absolutely WONDERFUL!!!! The stock ones are really grating and really made me wonder how can people like them... but it seems that mods change them for the better.
 
These are supposed to have a fixed bass response and I can already tell it's a bit tight... but I have to properly test them with some DnB, Electro and a tone sweeper again.
 
w00t!
 
 
P.S. They do need a bit more amplification... while I run my D5000s, Signature Pros, etc. on my c421 portable at low gain, these guys CALL for me to flip the High Gain switch!

 

[mrspeakers]

The Mad Dog has more output below 200 Hz than the unit Tyll tested, which was an early production unit.  With the bass fixes and the updates I did for early customers, I believe every unit out there has a smoother response between 20 and 300 Hz, with more output below 80 Hz.  Ultimately, listener impressions are what matters most, anyhow, so I didn't want to bother Tyll with another measurement at this time, as it was "good enough for government work," which was to show it wasn't some goofy product with a horrible sound signature.
 
I do hope the discussion expands not to "vs. Paradox" but vs. "what can I get under $300".  I've said it before, but I hope people don't so much think of Paradox as my competitor just because of the T50RP connection, but rather the broader universe of what people can get from AKG, Sennheiser, etc under $350.

 

[gelocks]

Agreed... actually, the Mad Dogs were the reason that I "let go" of one of my Faves... Shure SRH940... Before the fix I was kind of in the fence, and once I was told that the Bass would come ever more alive, I sold them...
 
Actually, on this tiny bit I have listened today (4 hours), I can easily recommend the Mad Dogs over the Shure SRH940s and the Audio Technica A900X (beats them in comfort, AND sound reproduction) due to their nature of actually "adapting" to any genre I have thrown at it. Have listened to: Emo, Emocore, Salsa, Bachata, Reggaeton, Alternative, DnB, dubstep, etc.
 
Even though it is NOT as "sparkly" as the SRH940s, it's actually a way better experience! I haven't gotten ear piercing moments while listening to metal and punk, and on tracks such as Pendulum - Witchcraft, the bass is way more present than either of those.
 
As of now, I would order what I have/had in the following order:
 
Mad Dogs > Audio Technica ATH-A900X > Shure 940 > V-MODA M-80 > Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro80 >  Skullcandy Mix Master Mike > Panasonic RP-HTF600-S > Fostex T50RPs (stock)
 
So they are definitely a great player in the "Closed-Headphone" scene right now and the ones I will probably suggest to people looking for something in that range.
 
Now, note that I did not mention either my Denon D5000s nor the Ultrasone Signature Pro...
I could easily rank the headphones above because the Mad Dogs pretty much walk over them in term of sound reproduction to my ears!! (of course, THIS WILL ALSO DEPEND ON YOUR SOUND SIGNATURE PREFERENCE... if you like bright, the SRH940s are still a great option! If you like bass, the Beyers are a good one and extremely comfortable too... if you want mobile and great looking, the V-MODAs kick ass, etc. etc. etc.)
 
 
I will take more time to test against the Sig Pros and D5000s... if I even think that the Mad Dogs trump over either one of them or both, I will have some serious thinking to do... (and probably keep cleaning out my collection...)
 
 
Thanks.

 

[Oderi]

Quote:

 
Indeed, for a sealed headphone the Paradox is astonishingly neutral. I don't think there is another sealed can, made by anyone, for any price, that does it better. The Paradox adapts very well to pretty much anything you throw at it, it's definitely not a "specialized" headphone. There are very few clues that it started life as a $75 Fostex. The headstage is moderate, it can't go way out of the head the way some very high-end open headphones can. It also can't match the air of an electrostat, but that's true of any ortho, and what the Paradox lacks in treble it more than makes up for in bass.
 
I don't want to in any way disparage what Dan is doing with the MD though. The Paradox costs nearly twice as much, and the wait could be 3 weeks or more.

 
Yeah that goes with what people are saying about them. Must say I am becoming curious but no, I really don't think I'll be spending that kind of money on just a different 'version.' Especially with my budget.
 
 

The Mad Dog has more output below 200 Hz than the unit Tyll tested, which was an early production unit.  With the bass fixes and the updates I did for early customers, I believe every unit out there has a smoother response between 20 and 300 Hz, with more output below 80 Hz.  Ultimately, listener impressions are what matters most, anyhow, so I didn't want to bother Tyll with another measurement at this time, as it was "good enough for government work," which was to show it wasn't some goofy product with a horrible sound signature.
 
I do hope the discussion expands not to "vs. Paradox" but vs. "what can I get under $300".  I've said it before, but I hope people don't so much think of Paradox as my competitor just because of the T50RP connection, but rather the broader universe of what people can get from AKG, Sennheiser, etc under $350.
 

 
Yeah that'd make more sense for sure. There will always be comparisons between different price ranges to give people ideas of how diminishing the returns do become, but I agree in that generally just choosing a price range and comparing the headphones that fall in it would be the way to go.
 
Also, should have realized Tyll had one of the earlier ones. Now that makes me curious as to what the current one would look like in his graphs... but I guess he should be given a break.
 
 
 

Even though it is NOT as "sparkly" as the SRH940s, it's actually a way better experience! I haven't gotten ear piercing moments while listening to metal and punk, and on tracks such as Pendulum - Witchcraft, the bass is way more present than either of those.
 
[...]
 
I will take more time to test against the Sig Pros and D5000s... if I even think that the Mad Dogs trump over either one of them or both, I will have some serious thinking to do... (and probably keep cleaning out my collection...)
 

 
This. D5000's are considered somewhat bright and the difference is readily apparent. The D5000's can be... irritating with some songs, whereas the MD's, well, I could listen all day long with them. Or actually maybe not, I've noticed a couple times that I've cranked the volume up more than with the Denons and in those cases the fatigue eventually sets in with the MD's too. Roughly volume-matched however, there's really no comparison (for me, with my music, YMMV).
 
I tried some brief A/B'ing between the Denons and MD's a couple days back and have to admit that both are, well, good headphones. The biggest differences naturally are in the FR: Denons are a bit brighter, MD's have more linear bass etc. I do think the Denons are a bit slow for fast music; I prefer the MD's for metal as I guess I've said already. What comes to other genres, they both have their strengths and the Denon its weaknesses. I haven't really been able to point out any significant "cons" in the MD's that'd make anyone prefer D5000; more like there are some things the D5000 just does very well (better than the MD's? I don't know.). Someone will probably think that the brighter headphone with wooden cups suits some specific genre better than the MD's, but I haven't found myself reaching for the D5000's... at all, really.
 
Sorry for the possibly bad grammar and whatnot, I should be sleeping.

 

[gelocks]

Quote:

This. D5000's are considered somewhat bright and the difference is readily apparent. The D5000's can be... irritating with some songs, whereas the MD's, well, I could listen all day long with them. Or actually maybe not, I've noticed a couple times that I've cranked the volume up more than with the Denons and in those cases the fatigue eventually sets in with the MD's too. Roughly volume-matched however, there's really no comparison (for me, with my music, YMMV).
 
I tried some brief A/B'ing between the Denons and MD's a couple days back and have to admit that both are, well, good headphones. The biggest differences naturally are in the FR: Denons are a bit brighter, MD's have more linear bass etc. I do think the Denons are a bit slow for fast music; I prefer the MD's for metal as I guess I've said already. What comes to other genres, they both have their strengths and the Denon its weaknesses. I haven't really been able to point out any significant "cons" in the MD's that'd make anyone prefer D5000; more like there are some things the D5000 just does very well (better than the MD's? I don't know.). Someone will probably think that the brighter headphone with wooden cups suits some specific genre better than the MD's, but I haven't found myself reaching for the D5000's... at all, really.
 
Sorry for the possibly bad grammar and whatnot, I should be sleeping.

 
I don't find the D5000s overly bright actually, they are, but I don't perceive it as deal breakers (heck, I didn't perceived the SRH940s as deal breakers! lol). Still, I'm PRETTY SURE that the D5000s have does 1 thing a bit better than the Mad Dogs and it's still the sub-bass...
I still think the Mad Dogs are more mid/mid-bass oriented although IT DOES provide enough sub-bass, it is not as powerful as the one that Denon provides (even if it is more "loose").
 
But again, that's going from memory, I don't have the D5000s right here at work...
 
I do have the Sig Pros here... same story... better sub-bass on the Sig Pros, really good and controlled bass (sub and mid).
 
(P.S. Testing with Kaskade - Fire in Your New Shoes ... if you get a chance to listen to this song, Innerpartysystem Radio Edit version, wait for the song to get to the 1 minute mark... you'll notice...)

 

[dorino]

In the future, a review of the updated models by Tyll would be appreciated.

 

[LFF]

Quote:

I do hope the discussion expands not to "vs. Paradox" but vs. "what can I get under $300".  I've said it before, but I hope people don't so much think of Paradox as my competitor just because of the T50RP connection, but rather the broader universe of what people can get from AKG, Sennheiser, etc under $350.

I agree with this.
 
Please note that our design philosophies as well as our hearing abilities differ greatly - mrspeakers is an electrical engineer...I am an audio engineer. WIKI them for the differences.
 
Mr.Speakers is trying to hit a certain price point commercially for the hard work of his custom dampening.
 
I, on the other hand, am not trying to hit a certain price point commercially...having not even gone commercial with the Paradox for the general public. Also, there is no quick "how-to" on the Paradox..each one is different and I take my time to modify the dampening, housing and actual driver in more than one way for each individual headphone. The result is very different from the MadDogs and as such they really shouldn't be compared in a VS match. The T50RP connection is the ONLY connection between the two headphones.

 

[hans030390]

On top of all that, they're simply voiced differently, and no one has made secrets of this! It's up to the individual to decide which sound signature suits them best.

 

[paradoxper]

Sure they're both great headphones and both offer great value.
But I still don't see how this would be any different than comparing any other headphones to one another. 

 

[gelocks]

Agreed with above!
(I still want to try the Paradoxes... clearing more room ($$) for them! ).
 
More quick Mad Dog impressions...
Having used them for more than 12 hours I can happily and honestly say that these are the most comfortable set I've had in a while!! I really believe they fit better than my favorites, the Denon D5000!! Sound is still crazily good. Listening to "Truth Serum" by Dishwalla is a real pleasure and a bit of bosa by Mima (Yarimir Caban), is solidly reproduced! (like it better on the HD600s though...)
 
Now I'm afraid of getting more "similarly priced" cans though... Was thinking of getting the V-MODAs M100, the Denons AH-D600s, etc. not sure if I will... well, I probably do just to compare as this will be definitely my measuring stick now for $400-down...

 

[jerg]

Quote:

Agreed with above!
(I still want to try the Paradoxes... clearing more room ($$) for them! ).
 
More quick Mad Dog impressions...
Having used them for more than 12 hours I can happily and honestly say that these are the most comfortable set I've had in a while!! I really believe they fit better than my favorites, the Denon D5000!! Sound is still crazily good. Listening to "Truth Serum" by Dishwalla is a real pleasure and a bit of bosa by Mima (Yarimir Caban), is solidly reproduced! (like it better on the HD600s though...)
 
Now I'm afraid of getting more "similarly priced" cans though... Was thinking of getting the V-MODAs M100, the Denons AH-D600s, etc. not sure if I will... well, I probably do just to compare as this will be definitely my measuring stick now for $400-down...

 
<$400? Wouldn't hurt to try out the Hifiman HE-400s.

 

[gelocks]

Quote:

 
<$400? Wouldn't hurt to try out the Hifiman HE-400s.

 
I have no doubts that the Hifiman sounds awesome based on impressions on the boards but, aren't these 'open'?!? (If you see my previous posts, I'm mostly concentrating on the "closed" bracket...)

 

[olegausany]

Quote:

Agreed with above!
(I still want to try the Paradoxes... clearing more room ($$) for them! ).
 
More quick Mad Dog impressions...
Having used them for more than 12 hours I can happily and honestly say that these are the most comfortable set I've had in a while!! I really believe they fit better than my favorites, the Denon D5000!! Sound is still crazily good. Listening to "Truth Serum" by Dishwalla is a real pleasure and a bit of bosa by Mima (Yarimir Caban), is solidly reproduced! (like it better on the HD600s though...)
 
Now I'm afraid of getting more "similarly priced" cans though... Was thinking of getting the V-MODAs M100, the Denons AH-D600s, etc. not sure if I will... well, I probably do just to compare as this will be definitely my measuring stick now for $400-down...

Sorry for little off topic but IF you want D5000/7000 signature for portable use you should try D600 but be aware that they don't have put on and forget comfort of D5000/7000 but ypu will quickly adapt to them