[Azure]

Quote:

Originally Posted by slwiser You would think it would be as you say but Headroom thinks very highly of these.

Well, I see no point in getting them as my SA5k's are just fine.

 

[Teerawit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure I'm just saying that I doubt that it'll make the drastic improvement that everybody preaches there's going to be (Hence why I wanted to jump the gun on downgrading).

Was the jump from SA1000 to SA5000 worth it, in your opinion?

 

[Azure]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teerawit Was the jump from SA1000 to SA5000 worth it, in your opinion?

As of this moment, no (Due to the disappointment of amping them with a proper amp). They sound a bit more exciting and energetic than the SA1k's, but I also kept them for their supposedly huge potential with a nice rig. And, needless to say, hearing them through an M3 has disappointed me in what kind of sound can be achieved through them (Not because it sounds bad, but just that it's a minimal improvement over my previous amp).

 

[dhp]

I think I said this in that amplifier thread, but why do you even bother with headphones? Just get ksc-75s because I really don't think your ears will care for anything more

 

[Azure]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieInAFire I think I said this in that amplifier thread, but why do you even bother with headphones? Just get ksc-75s because I really don't think your ears will care for anything more

I like the SAxK signature. And I honestly don't feel like downgrading to such a great extent. I don't feel M3/SA5k --> SA1k would be as great of a downgrade as M3/SA5k (Or SA1k) -> KSC-75. Plus, I like having circumaural headphones and I hate clip-ons.

 

[Filburt]

I dunno, man, your posts here are _really_ not convincing me that the SA5000 is for you. What you're describing as your gripe with them is something that pretty much defines them. I honestly doubt the CE595 is going to solve that issue and, depending on what your Pioneer sounds like, it may even make things worse. I should probably just give up on this, but I thought I'd leave some parting words about it. Obviously I can't guarantee it, but I can't help but have a sneaking suspicion that if you try some of the other headphones suggested here, you may end up liking them better over time than the SA5k. It just looks like you're throwing money at a problem in a sort of my-way-or-the-highway fashion, and you're burning out quickly on it. If you want to just say to hell with it and "downgrade", that's obviously your choice, but the more prudent measure might be to try to attend one of the many meets that pop up in California and try some other stuff out. My personal feeling about the 880, for instance, is that it doesn't give up as much as you might think to the 5K in midrange resolution and clarity while bringing in significantly more body. I like the 701 better, but in your case the 880 might do a better job for you. I'm not saying sell your 5K off immediately, but I'd at least suggest giving some other headphones a shot instead of charging in so bent on the SA5K being the only solution.

 

[Andrea]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure My M3 finally came today from SFT Audio. It looked good (Though the metal had a bunch of "burn" marks or whatever those brown-ish stains are supposed to be). Nice and heavy. I immediately plugged it in and gave it a listen. The first thing I noticed when I plugged it in was "Where's the bass?" After a few more minutes of listening I discovered more bass. However, it was in the form of impact and not quantity. The M3 seems to have less bass than my stereo's amp, but the M3 does have more impact on its bass. The sound is a tad bit softer/smoother, making it a bit more coherent and identifiable. That's it. It costed me $360 shipped and those are the only differences I've detected. I know a bunch of people are going to say that my source is at fault, but I know that's a load of bull. I realize that this hobby isn't for me. A source probably wouldn't make any difference at all, especially considering what little difference there was between my stereo's supposedly low-quality headphone amp and the M3. People might say that I can't be this sure since I've never listening to a good, high quality source. However, I know from prior experience that it won't make any bit of a difference at all. This prior experience is from my experience the SR-80s. The difference between the A500s and SR-80s was minimal (Less bass, more forward sound). I've realized that you guys (Or rather, audiophiles in general) are so enthusiastic about this hobby that they over-exaggerate (understatement) every detail. I honestly doubt my hearing is at fault, but rather that I'm listening with all honesty and reporting the real deal, without the audiophile's exaggerated words; just honestly reporting what the actual difference is to those that aren't detail-freaks (no offense) and want an honest/realistic opinion. So, now I'm sitting here with a $360 metal block that can barely out perform the miniscule headphone circuitry in my 7+ year old budget home stereo system. I'm thinking I should just sell this thing (Though I know that I'm still going to take a hard hit when I resell it since I had to pay $45 for shipping and I had to pay for the PayPal fee) and spend the money to some good, tangible use (Video games, music CDs). EDIT: I'm thinking about selling my SA5k's as well to downgrade to the SA1k's.

If it helps, I haven't yet managed to get my hands on a headphone amp (up to $300) that sounds better than my lowly Pioneer A-209R headphone out (that as you can expect sounds very good)

 

[Azure]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Filburt I dunno, man, your posts here are _really_ not convincing me that the SA5000 is for you. What you're describing as your gripe with them is something that pretty much defines them. I honestly doubt the CE595 is going to solve that issue and, depending on what your Pioneer sounds like, it may even make things worse. I should probably just give up on this, but I thought I'd leave some parting words about it. Obviously I can't guarantee it, but I can't help but have a sneaking suspicion that if you try some of the other headphones suggested here, you may end up liking them better over time than the SA5k. It just looks like you're throwing money at a problem in a sort of my-way-or-the-highway fashion, and you're burning out quickly on it. If you want to just say to hell with it and "downgrade", that's obviously your choice, but the more prudent measure might be to try to attend one of the many meets that pop up in California and try some other stuff out. My personal feeling about the 880, for instance, is that it doesn't give up as much as you might think to the 5K in midrange resolution and clarity while bringing in significantly more body. I like the 701 better, but in your case the 880 might do a better job for you. I'm not saying sell your 5K off immediately, but I'd at least suggest giving some other headphones a shot instead of charging in so bent on the SA5K being the only solution.

SERIOUSLY, PLEASE TELL ME WHAT MY GRIPE IS WITH THEM!

I have no idea where the hell you guys are getting these ideas from. You're reading WAY too much into posts. When did I say I had a gripe with the SA5k's? I said that they lacked the kind of physical bass that you get with a car stereo system, but all headphones lack that so I don't care. Seriously, are we even reading the same damn thread? The SA5k's are perfectly fine, yet everybody is telling me that I don't like them and that I have gripes with them? WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON?

 

[Filburt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure SERIOUSLY, PLEASE TELL ME WHAT MY GRIPE IS WITH THEM! I have no idea where the hell you guys are getting these ideas from. You're reading WAY too much into posts. When did I say I had a gripe with the SA5k's? I said that they lacked the kind of physical bass that you get with a car stereo system, but all headphones lack that so I don't care. Seriously, are we even reading the same damn thread? The SA5k's are perfectly fine, yet everybody is telling me that I don't like them and that I have gripes with them? WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON?

You said that if you could change something about them, that'd be it. I also don't entirely agree with you that headphones can't give a weighty bass that you can feel. At least in my experience, that hasn't been true.

Sorry man, when you make a thread about the second biggest disappointment ever, it makes it hard for people to take you seriously when you say you're happy with your stuff. It just ends up sounding like you're confused or something.

Anyhow, good luck with your stuff then ;D

 

[Azure]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Filburt You said that if you could change something about them, that'd be it. I also don't entirely agree with you that headphones can't give a weighty bass that you can feel. At least in my experience, that hasn't been true. Sorry man, when you make a thread about the second biggest disappointment ever, it makes it hard for people to take you seriously when you say you're happy with your stuff. It just ends up sounding like you're confused or something. Anyhow, good luck with your stuff then ;D

I'm not sure if you read the reply, but I mentioned that I included as many details as possible to answer the question as I thought that Philodox was trying to psychologize me.

I think you also overlooked my explanation of the kind of bass I was talking. I was talking about the visceral, physical bass that you feel from a nice car sound system that literally vibrates throughout your whole body. If you believe a headphone can produce this level of bass, then I would definetly pay to hear it.

I mentioned afterward that I already know that this kind of bass is impossible in headphones and that I only mentioned it to help Philodox. It's just a general thing that I think most headphone users would feel is missing from their headphones (After hearing a car's sound system).

And yeah, I see what you mean about the thread title. It seems like it's hard for many to grasp the concept that something can still sound pleasing but still be a disappointment (Like Teerawit's experience with the O2's). Someone could buy an Orpheus system and like the sound, but still be disappointed after expecting more from the system.

There's a difference between "happy with my stuff" and liking what I hear. The former implies that I'm perfectly content and am not disappointed (Obviously doesn't apply). The latter, however, just means that what I hear sounds good and doesn't sound bad (Which DOES apply).

Yeesh, I never realized that that one small comment about the headphone not being able to produce the kind of bass a car sound system produces would cause all these people to start saying that I don't like my SA5k's all of a sudden and that I was expecting my M3 to fix "flaws" in the SA5k's.

 

[Filburt]

It wasn't the bass comment that gave me the impression, it was your thread title coupled with all your other comments. I don't think headphones will give rocks-your-body bass, but most headphones I've tried give a more involving sort of bass than the SA5000. The K701, for me, really immerses me in the music in a way that the SA5000 just can't pull off, and while that's not car-stereo thumping impact, it's still a significant improvement.

Also, I'm trying really hard to imagine how the SA5000 could get recommended in the scope of a majority of majority opinions. They just aren't nearly popular enough for that, in my observation at least.

 

[Azure]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Filburt It wasn't the bass comment that gave me the impression, it was your thread title coupled with all your other comments. I don't think headphones will give rocks-your-body bass, but most headphones I've tried give a more involving sort of bass than the SA5000. The K701, for me, really immerses me in the music in a way that the SA5000 just can't pull off, and while that's not car-stereo thumping impact, it's still a significant improvement. Also, I'm trying really hard to imagine how the SA5000 could get recommended in the scope of a majority of majority opinions. They just aren't nearly popular enough for that, in my observation at least.

Well, I like the SA5k's sonic bass. It sounds very accurate, quick, and impactful. The only problem would be adding physical bass without adding any extra sonic characteristics.

I created a thread about which genre of music I preferred and it seemed that the majority recognized that I listened to a lot of electronica. The majority recommended that I check out the SA5k's. I believe I created a bunch more threads over a large period of time, most of which pointed to the SA5k's/DT880s. I read a BUNCH of reviews on the SA5k's, and it seemed that nearly all of them mention that the cans work best with electronica.

TRUST ME, the SA1k/SA5k purchase definetly was not a blind purchase. It was my most researched purchase I've ever made (You have no idea how many reviews I read and how I searched through and read threads that just mentioned the headphones, all to further confirm that they are the perfect cans for me). Conisder the period of time when I first heard about the SA5k's to when I finally bought the SA1k's in April of this year. I was looking at reviews and what not all throughout that period. I even developed a rather large photo archive of all the SA5k pictures that were posted on these boards.

And now, all of a sudden I'm being told that I got the wrong headphones and that you guys would never recommend SA5k's for electronica. There's so much hypocrisy that I don't even know who to trust anymore.

So, now the SA5k's are bad for electronica/trance? What's next, Senns are the kind of rock?

 

[rocktboy]

Azure,
Fellow sa5k lover here. It is ruthlessly revealing like soneone else said.
I have 3 main amps I use with it. Headroom little (solid state), Bada PH12 (hybrid) , Jasmine t200 (tube). I use a very decent source (Esound cd-e5). There are night and day differences when the sa5k is driven by the different amps I own. Especially listening to audiphile quality recordings. In fact there are night and day differences just tube rolling the Bada PH12. My preferences is Bada PH12 by far, then headroom little, and the Jasmine. People tell you to pair the sa5k with a tube amp but my jasmine just does not match well with sa5k at all...so it ALL DEPENDS ON THE AMP.

In your unique case there is a slight, remote chance that your old receiver's amp DOES actually sound quite similar to the M^3. If there is another headfier close to you try borrowing their amp and see if you can hear the more than subtle differences that the sa5k is totally capable of revealing.

sa5k's also respond quite well to eq. In fact most of my headphones distort when using the settings recommended in this thread: http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showt...ht=sa5000+bass
The sa5k's is capable of "car subwoofer bass" with the settings in the above thread. And you have m^3 driving it so it should be real good.
Give it a try, it might change your mind about what you want to do.....

best of luck.

 

[Kees]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure 1. Uh...sonically, they're perfect. Only thing that is lacking is physical bass (Not the kind of bass on the DT770s/A500s that made the rest of the music that much less coherent). 2. Million-dollar question right there. I've struggled to find the best way to state the kind of music I like, but I've always failed. Whenever people try to introduce me to new music, they always struggle as I like songs A and C, but don't like song B; yet, there's no genre/sonic relation between songs A and C, and song A is much more closer sounding to song B. I've asked many people about what I'd classify my musical tastes as, and I've concluding that it'd be: Electronica, trance, techno, and J-Pop. Based on that info, I was recommended the SA5k's, so I went down that path. I should mention that I didn't intentionally ignore your advice on any personal basis or anything along those lines. Whenever I create some recommendation threads, I follow advice based on the majority (And I create multiple threads over long periods of time, and see all the different majority options; I then decide on the majority of the majority options). If I didn't follow your advice, it was probably because you weren't in the majority (I know it isn't your fault, but I'm a careful shopper ).

Hi. I'm sorry for you & I can feel with you. You tried very hard to do it right and it went (sort of) wrong.
I can also see why some people may get a bit irritated by how you went about it. Some people gave you good advise, but you didn't recognise it. No blame on you for that: you couldn't know.
You decided that the majority would be right. So you let the majority decide for you.
And they where wrong.
Let me tell you a secret: the majority usually is wrong. People who realy know their business are very rarely in the majority.
The only way you can learn how to recognise good advise is experience. Check everything with your own ears and learn from your disapointments. If you learn something from this you win.
And please (just to make shure, I don't say you do): don't blame the people that gave you advise: they realy tried to help you. I bet they feel almost as disapointed as you are.
Don't quit. Keep on going to where you want to go. And learn on the way.
I probably sound like your dad. I'm getting realy old I guess....

 

[crazyfrenchman27]

Wow, what a worthless thread from an inexperienced member bashing an excellent and reasonably priced amp.

Perhaps this thread should be re-titled to, "M3 - Second Biggest Disappointment Ever: it doesn't distort my music and it makes my AV710 sound like my AV710!"

Next time, shell out some money for a reasonably priced source, such as the Zhaolu, before you buy an amp that costs ten times more than your source and expect a miracle.

-Matt