[Fitz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazper I think the key thing here is not about the amp, it's about the listener. Summary of below post: Crap in, crap out Amplifier is not = Magic box Many people have commented on the synergy between the M3 with those opamps and the sa5ks. (verbally and in this forum). People have also commented on sennheiser/M3 combinations. The M3 has a distinct sound signature depending on what chips you put in it, however, underlying all this it has it's own "sound". An amplifier is just that, a box for amplifying a signal. It is not some magic box that is going to make things unbelievably "wow". A crap amp will simply amplify the signal and make it dull. A good amp won't clean up the signal but it will keep it (as close to) intact as possible while providing power to the headphone/speakers. Yes there will be distinct differences, yes there will be nuances in the sound that come out more by virtue of having better current capacity and voltage swing, yes you will be able to turn it up LOUDER and it won't distort. However, what we are really talking about here is essentially something that turns a small signal into a bigger signal. You put crap in, you get crap out. If you're listening to 128kbps mp3s you're going to hear mp3 artifacts and a bit of blur and shimmer. You cannot expect an amplifier to magically alter the sound to remove the blur.

Would you, perhaps, describe this magic box as a 'straight wire with gain'?

 

[Azure]

Like I've said earlier, my impressions of this amp made me realize that this hobby is beyond my capabilities. I'm unable to listen as carefully as others. Part of the reason as to why I kept the SA5k's was that it had the potential of shining a LOT more than the SA1k's with a "nice" rig (Part of which is a nice amp). So, when I got the M3 and noticed that it didn't shine as much as I expected, I figured that this hobby is beyond me. Then I started thinking about whether I should sell the M3 or not and I started thinking about how much I spent on it ($360). I then reached the conclusion that everything sounded just fine through my stereo's amp (85-90% of the M3). So, at this point I'm thinking of quitting this hobby forever. So, while thinking this, I figure I might as well sell the SA5k's as well since I'm not going to build an actual rig around them. If I sold the SA5k's and the M3, I'd still have something like 80% of what I'm hearing now and at least $500 in my pockets that I could use on video games and music CDs. VERY TEMPTING.

 

[Jazper]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Would you, perhaps, describe this magic box as a 'straight wire with gain'?

In my context a magic box is something that improves the sound, makes it better, jucier, vibrant, more contrasting, gives it better imaging, soundstage.. etc etc..

 

[Filburt]

I still think it sounds like you got the wrong headphones, to be honest. The 'lack of physical bass' comment about the SA5000 indicates a degree of fault, to me at least, that probably won't be righted in a 'wow' manner without some serious additional hardware investment. To be honest, I'd probably try some other headphones if I were you. Looking over all of your comments and the music you said you listen to, I would have recommended something other than the SA5000 such as the DT880 or K701. I actually like the SA5000 for some stuff, but the sort of bass weight you seem to be aiming for is not really something any amp I've ever heard it on has managed to bring out.

 

[J-Pak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Filburt I still think it sounds like you got the wrong headphones, to be honest. The 'lack of physical bass' comment about the SA5000 indicates a degree of fault, to me at least, that probably won't be righted in a 'wow' manner without some serious additional hardware investment. To be honest, I'd probably try some other headphones if I were you. Looking over all of your comments and the music you said you listen to, I would have recommended something other than the SA5000 such as the DT880 or K701. I actually like the SA5000 for some stuff, but the sort of bass weight you seem to be aiming for is not really something any amp I've ever heard it on has managed to bring out.

SinglePower SLAM amp? A few members say it brings out the bass on the SA and Grado RS headphones

 

[Teerawit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure What happend? How were electrostats after using dynamic cans for so long? How big was the difference?

This story is for a different time in a different place. Let's just say I'm not ready to spend thousands for another eargasm just yet

 

[Filburt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Pak SinglePower SLAM amp? A few members say it brings out the bass on the SA and Grado RS headphones

It brings some out, I guess, but an amp that brings SLAM out of the SA5k is an amp that would probably be downright overbearing with pretty much anything but the Q010...something the Singlepower is, ostensibly, not. Yeah, it'll bring it out relative to running the thing on a Dynalo or maybe the M^3, but it'll still maintain that SA5K sound.

 

[Azure]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Filburt I still think it sounds like you got the wrong headphones, to be honest. The 'lack of physical bass' comment about the SA5000 indicates a degree of fault, to me at least, that probably won't be righted in a 'wow' manner without some serious additional hardware investment. To be honest, I'd probably try some other headphones if I were you. Looking over all of your comments and the music you said you listen to, I would have recommended something other than the SA5000 such as the DT880 or K701. I actually like the SA5000 for some stuff, but the sort of bass weight you seem to be aiming for is not really something any amp I've ever heard it on has managed to bring out.

I should mention that the kind of physical bass I was talking about is the kind you get from a car's sound system. I realize that this is impossible with headphones and was aware of this before purchasing the SA5k's. I was simply asked what I dislike about the SA5k's. If I've heard something better before, and my current system doesn't have that aspect, and we're trying to narrow some things down here in this thread, then I'm going to mention that. I listened to my brother's new sound system that he got in his car, and I honestly would be happier if I could get the same physical vibrations with my SA5k's. However, I know that this isn't possible, so I don't really care enough to want to try different headphones (Since they'll only create vibrations around the ears). I really only mentioned it because I thought philodox was going to do some psychologizing, so I wanted to include every bit of information as possible to help him analyze me (Or whatever his intent with the question was). I guess I interpreted the question incorrectly (To find the answer, I asked myself what would improve the SA5k sound).

Basically: SA5k's would be better if they had visceral bass equivalent to a car's sound system. This is impossible, so I don't care (And thus don't want to try out other headphones to solve this "problem"). The A500s were the closest headphones to this car stereo bass sound (I'm not counting DT770s since they sounded horrible), and they were still leagues away (Obviously since they're headphones). I didn't end up liking the way the bass SOUNDED on the A500s. It felt nice, but sounded bloated and covered the rest of the music.

 

[Teerawit]

Conclusion: Headphone amps aren't frequency equalizers.

Next?

 

[rsaavedra]

Seems to me that you are taking quite drastic and impulsive decisions Azure.

Despite your believing in a "first-hour-assessment" I would simply try to enjoy your new rig for a few days and see if it was worth it with the music you like to listen to. If not, then think about what you are doing for some time before making further impulsive decisions. Why didn't you sample some less expensive headphones first that didn't need an amp? Why not attending a meet and try several different rigs with your favorite music? Why the hurry in getting a high-end headphone and an amp without really knowing how they would sound together with your favorite music?

I find it hard to think that the best recommendation for any particular kind of music could be doubtlessly the SA5000 for someone not familiar with several headphones sound signatures in general. I would think sampling some less expensive headphones and simply sampling different signatures would have been beneficial for you before jumping in a specific headphone and amp choice just out of reading and recommendations.

For example you could have tried the Grado SR-60's, which actually really don't need an amp to sound really nice with pretty much any music. Same for Koss KSC-35's, or Sennheiser PX100. If with an amp, then you could have tried Senn 580's, or Alessandro's or some other Grado if you liked the 60's. Anyway, I'm just thinking aloud.

All in all, I see possibly a less than ideal choice of a headphone, a possible low synergy level with the chosen amp, a less than ideal source, and an impulsive character/personality. Your dissapointment is no surprise in such combination of conditions.

 

[Hi-Finthen]

And even if you were to cash in you may only be out, what $150 bucks at this point with a great amount of practical knowledge which only you can value and grow from...

However, I believe you have a brand new set up of "GOOD" sound once the Sony arrives; Again, brand new! I don't think anyone puts together an ideal set up on an entry level budget as a novice (as I am) in this hobby without some compromises and a starting point to build upon when the budget allowes.... Do get back to the music side and go with it '"get into the tunes" for awhile....

Further, explore more types of music too now you have a versitile rig and you may very well be suprised with that experience that this hardware will provide for your education and entertainment...Hang in the music lounge a bit more dude;-}

I'm amazed by all the great tunes i experience which I otherwise wouldn't have ventured into other than now I have a "Good" rig with which to venture!

Venting is valuable and may help out both yourself and other newcommers too!

Buyers remorse @ what,LOL...$150.00 is comical to some of these other clowns on this bus...Cheer up bud!!!

Back to the melodys;-}

 

[Hi-Finthen]

Sorry 'bout the server hicup DBBLL post folks;-}

 

[Filburt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure I should mention that the kind of physical bass I was talking about is the kind you get from a car's sound system. I realize that this is impossible with headphones and was aware of this before purchasing the SA5k's. I was simply asked what I dislike about the SA5k's. If I've heard something better before, and my current system doesn't have that aspect, and we're trying to narrow some things down here in this thread, then I'm going to mention that. I listened to my brother's new sound system that he got in his car, and I honestly would be happier if I could get the same physical vibrations with my SA5k's. However, I know that this isn't possible, so I don't really care enough to want to try different headphones (Since they'll only create vibrations around the ears). I really only mentioned it because I thought philodox was going to do some psychologizing, so I wanted to include every bit of information as possible to help him analyze me (Or whatever his intent with the question was). I guess I interpreted the question incorrectly (To find the answer, I asked myself what would improve the SA5k sound). Basically: SA5k's would be better if they had visceral bass equivalent to a car's sound system. This is impossible, so I don't care (And thus don't want to try out other headphones to solve this "problem"). The A500s were the closest headphones to this car stereo bass sound (I'm not counting DT770s since they sounded horrible), and they were still leagues away (Obviously since they're headphones). I didn't end up liking the way the bass SOUNDED on the A500s. It felt nice, but sounded bloated and covered the rest of the music.

Ah, I see. Well yeah you pretty much are going to have to live with the SA5k as they are in that respect. It wasn't clear to me that they were that far off for you in the bass region. If you get a chance, I'd suggest you try K701s or DT880s, and not just a quick A/B.

 

[db597]

@Azure

You're not alone here. When I first got my LDM+ I found the difference to be rather subtle. So I thought it might be that the LDM+ is too cheap an amp to make a significant difference. Then I went for the Head5. We often rave about how smooth and warm etc the sound is. But truth be told, these characteristics are imposed in only a very subtle manner. The headphones still overwhelmingly define the sound signature. Amps, even expensive ones, make a few percent difference and that's about it. An amp isn't going to improve the sound the way that upgrading a headphone is.

IMHO, where amps really come in is when you've already got the top of the range headphone and like it's sonic characteristics. You then want to upgrade, but there's nothing else higher to go to in that same stable. E.g. if you like the Senn 650 and want more of the Senn "house sound" - there's nothing higher. Going to another brand may not be what you like - for example, the W5000 is higher than the Senn 650, but it's a totally different sound, that you may or may not like. At this level it's more about personal taste.

At this point, the only course of action is to "fine tune" what you've already got and get that extra few percent out of your headphones. This is the job of amps and cables, which are even worse... many self-professed audiophiles can't tell the difference between cables in a DBT test.

As for the source, there is some truth in the old axiom garbage in garbage out. Amps can help reveal a little (let's say 1%) more detail in the music - but not if it's not there. But it is also true that even if you've got a good source and the amp reveals that 1% more, it's not going to be a huge difference. I got more enjoyment going from my HD497 to HD595 than when I went from my CDROM's cheapo DAC to my Audigy2's DAC!

 

[slwiser]

From what I am hearing this frequency profile is about what you want:

http://www.headphone.com/products/he...er-cx300-b.php