[Polky74]

I have both HD800s and HE6 SE. When using HE6SE everything you said is true, W4 simply can't power it. But with HD800s I really don't hear any difference between W4 and A90 combo.

Out of curiosity... but at what volume do you set the W4 to listen to the HD800S?

 

[Reader]

Out of curiosity... but at what volume do you set the W4 to listen to the HD800S?

Need to check, I put my HD 800s away for now and only using HE6SE. I think it was 70 with EAPO -10 db for for EQ headroom. The highest bass boost was something like 6db in my eq setting.

Edit: I am really not sure, I will update once I rotate it out.

 

[Polky74]

However, if an amplifier contained in a device the size of a USB stick makes the HD800S sound as good as one that weighs several kg, it only means one thing... that one that weighs several kg is not the best... at least for the HD800S
(personal opinion)

 

[Andrew_WOT]

I haven't tried HD800, but even easy to drive Focal Clear MG sounds quite anemic with not the best dynamics out of W4, not a complete loss, but turns into completely different beast on Auralic Taurus MKII.
Not sure about your EQ usage and what effect it has on result as I always trying to avoid this at all means.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that I had similar result with more powerful FiiO BTR7, portable dongles are just not the best match for full size headphones, yes, sometimes they can drive them pretty loud, but just can't make them sound their best.

 

[Reader]

However, i

I haven't tried HD800, but even easy to drive Focal Clear MG sounds quite anemic with not the best dynamics out of W4, not a complete loss, but turns into completely different beast on Auralic Taurus MKII.
Not sure about your EQ usage and what effect it has on result as I always trying to avoid this at all means.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that I had similar result with more powerful FiiO BTR7, portable dongles are just not the best match for full size headphones, yes, sometimes they can drive them pretty loud, but just can't make them sound their best.

I am absolutely not surprised. W4 isn't meant for low impedance dynamic headphones. It's output impedance is 3.4 or so and with clear's 55ohm nominal, DF is only 15. It will change bass frequency response. For someone like you who never EQ it could be noticeable. HD800s on W4 have DF of 90 or so, any change in FR would be completely unnoticeable.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

I am absolutely not surprised. W4 isn't meant for low impedance dynamic headphones. It's output impedance is 3.4 or so and with clear's 55ohm nominal, DF is only 15. It will change bass frequency response. For someone like you who never EQ it could be noticeable. HD800s on W4 have DF of 90 or so, any change in FR would be completely unnoticeable.

I think you are mixing few things here, there shouldn't be any impact on dynamic drivers, esp. for pretty hefty 55Ohm impedance of Focal Clears.
We had discussion a few pages back with ClieOS explaining few misconceptions here. You can also check few posts before that post, there is interesting info including link to some tests.

 

[Reader]

I think you are mixing few things here, there shouldn't be any impact on dynamic drivers, esp. for pretty hefty 55Ohm impedance of Focal Clears.
We had discussion a few pages back with ClieOS explaining few misconceptions here. You can also check few posts before that post, there is interesting info including link to some tests.

Unfortunately he was completely wrong, he mixed up planar magnetic and dynamic.

To quote him"As with most dynamic drivers, their impedance curve is almost always flat from 20Hz to 20kHz"

This is wrong, period. It's planar magnetic headphones that almost always have flat impedance curve.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/hifiman-he6se-review-headphone.23576/

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/focal-clear-review-headphone.18585/

Look at how HE6SE has a completely flat impedance like most planar and how the clear has a huge bump at bass frequency as a dynamic/.

 

[shez.]

I tried Beyerdynamic T5 (3rd gen) 32ohm. It also sounded not so good. However, DT770 with 80ohm sounded better than T5 from W4.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Unfortunately he was completely wrong, he mixed up planar magnetic and dynamic.

To quote him"As with most dynamic drivers, their impedance curve is almost always flat from 20Hz to 20kHz"

This is wrong, period. It's planar magnetic headphones that almost always have flat impedance curve.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/hifiman-he6se-review-headphone.23576/

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/focal-clear-review-headphone.18585/

Look at how HE6SE has a completely flat impedance like most planar and how the clear has a huge bump at bass frequency as a dynamic/.

This is from article linked before the ClieOS post, which he essentially quoted.

Does the source impedance, that is, the impedance from both the transducer cable AND the OUTPUT Impedance from the amp combined have any effect on the frequency response? If so, are there any criteria for it to happen? Does it matter to you as a buyer/consumer?
1: The source impedance CAN have an effect on the FR and thus, what we are hearing from our setup.

2.1: There are requirements for it to happen. First, you need a transducer with an UN-even impedance response. Single DDs and Planars have a flat impedance curve so they DO NOT qualify. Single BAs, hybrids and multi-drivers have an UN-even impedance curve so they DO qualify and thus they CAN be affected by source impedance. The next criteria that need to be fulfilled, is that the impedance of the transducer needs to be low (usually under 16ohm@1kHz could be considered as low impedance). And lastly, the source impedance between setup A and B needs to be sufficiently different enough to actually matter (for example a difference of 0.1ohm is really not going to have an audible change but 1ohm is likely).

You can also easily test if headphone is impacted by OI by switching between SE and BAL output on W4 as SE has lower OI.

 

[musicday]

I wish they will add presets for easy to drive headphones such as Denon D9200, etc.

 

[Reader]

This is from article linked before the ClieOS post, which he essentially quoted.



You can also easily test if headphone is impacted by OI by switching between SE and BAL output on W4 as SE has lower OI.

"2.1: There are requirements for it to happen. First, you need a transducer with an UN-even impedance response. Single DDs and Planars have a flat impedance curve so they DO NOT qualify."

I am not sure that imply most single DD has flat impedance curve, if it does, then it's completely and utterly WRONG.
I already posted evidence of dynamic driver have none flat impedance curve. If you actually care about this, you should look up impedance curve of Dynamic headphone online(these are readily available online), instead of relying on someone's posts here.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

"2.1: There are requirements for it to happen. First, you need a transducer with an UN-even impedance response. Single DDs and Planars have a flat impedance curve so they DO NOT qualify."

I am not sure that imply most single DD has flat impedance curve, if it does, then it's completely and utterly WRONG.
I already posted evidence of dynamic driver have none flat impedance curve. If you actually care about this, you should look up impedance curve of Dynamic headphone online(these are readily available online), instead of relying on someone's posts here.

I think the real question is how different OI changes FQ response and my experience with the lowest impedance DD earbuds I have (Yincrow RW-3000@16 Ohm), showed that it absolutely doesn't. So that is the explanation I was given, which also matches the flat impedance graph of other DD earbuds in that article.

Both HD800 and Focal Clear sound quite poorly directly out of W4 comparing to extra amplification with Taurus MK2, different impedance, same result, interpret as you wish, I am done.

 

[Reader]

I think the real question is how different OI changes FQ response and my experience with the lowest impedance DD earbuds I have (Yincrow RW-3000@16 Ohm), showed that it absolutely doesn't. So that is the explanation I was given, which also matches the flat impedance graph of other DD earbuds in that article.

Both HD800 and Focal Clear sound quite poorly directly out of W4 comparing to extra amplification with Taurus MK2, different impedance, same result, interpret as you wish, I am done.

No, the real question is why you can't admit you got facts wrong.

We need more facts here and less misinformation. So let me state this again, not for you but for others reading this so they don't buy into this Dynamic driver has flat impedance curve BS.

Most planar magnetic headphones have flat or very close to flat impedance curve, high output impedance tend not to be an issue. This is NOT true for dynamic headphones.

 

[Reader]

I wish they will add presets for easy to drive headphones such as Denon D9200, etc.

They don't even tell us what exactly the presets do, so I refuse to use them.

 

[ClieOS]

...

We need more facts here and less misinformation. So let me state this again, not for you but for others reading this so they don't buy into this Dynamic driver has flat impedance curve BS.
.. This is NOT true for dynamic headphones.

I measured at least 30+ different dynamic headphones impedance curve, none of them is anything but flat (with maybe a few ohms up and down). That's my fact.