Lotoo's new product: Lotoo Paw Pico, a 27g ultra-portable music player, DSD compatible, Bluetooth
Oct 5, 2018 at 11:59 PM Post #226 of 242
My issue is that most screenless small DAPs are just too low in power/volume, I'm hoping this one isn't.

Have you looked at the Revamp Acoustics P1? Like all screenless DAPs, it has some quirks but is multi-bit and puts out a good amount of power. I used my T50rp mk3 direct to the P1 for several months and rarely went past 1 o'oclock for volume.
 
Oct 6, 2018 at 12:06 AM Post #227 of 242
Have you looked at the Revamp Acoustics P1? Like all screenless DAPs, it has some quirks but is multi-bit and puts out a good amount of power. I used my T50rp mk3 direct to the P1 for several months and rarely went past 1 o'oclock for volume.

Nope but I have a Walnut which looks similar in size and weight. Really I am after that super light 'Clip+' kinda DAP but with more power to boot. I have a Cowon E3, which is an incredible 16g! But it's too low in power. Really I'm looking for that 20-30g DAP. I have a Cowon i9+ also at 40g it's the best for power and weight ratio thus far. If this Pico is 27g and can output same or more volume wise to IEMs, then I'm sold (as I can handle no EQ).
 
Oct 9, 2018 at 4:29 PM Post #228 of 242
There’s an update of the IOS app and Pico firmware available, but I don’t know the changes.

I’m still delighted of this little DAP and how well it pairs with my Westone UM3X.
 
Oct 9, 2018 at 4:32 PM Post #229 of 242
There’s an update of the IOS app and Pico firmware available, but I don’t know the changes.

I’m still delighted of this little DAP and how well it pairs with my Westone UM3X.

I can see from your signature that you have experience with the Sansa Fuze. Comparing the Pico Paw against the Fuze, and ignoring the actual sound signature, which is more powerful? Which can reach higher volumes on the same IEMs (without distortion)?

Ta.
 
Oct 9, 2018 at 4:38 PM Post #230 of 242
I can see from your signature that you have experience with the Sansa Fuze. Comparing the Pico Paw against the Fuze, and ignoring the actual sound signature, which is more powerful? Which can reach higher volumes on the same IEMs (without distortion)?

Ta.
Lotoo Paw Pico is not only more powerful than the Sansa, but also adds more body, soundstage and clarity to the sound. I don’t use the Sansa Fuze anymore, although I still own it.
 
Oct 9, 2018 at 4:41 PM Post #231 of 242
Lotoo Paw Pico is not only more powerful than the Sansa, but also adds more body, soundstage and clarity to the sound. I don’t use the Sansa Fuze anymore, although I still own it.

That is excellent news to hear indeed. I've basically been after a DAP for a long time for running or other active pursuits that can just generate a little more volume and driving capabilities to my PFE 232's. I have had a Sansa Clip and Sansa Fuze and I find they really need amped to get to a place of volume I am content with (but this is also partly in due that most of my music is mp3gained to 93db in an effort to normalize my volume across my music collection more.
 
Mar 22, 2019 at 9:47 AM Post #232 of 242
Can this:
1) drive IEMs sufficiently
2) Shuffle All (and do it well and proper)
3) EQ?
4) Stream to BT IEMs?

I gather it's an oddball, no english etc. And it 'speaks' to you? I take it pushing certain buttons or long pressing places it in different playmodes and it's telling you which one is which but no one can really know because no one knows Japanese? lol

How's the folder structure work? Is it microsd or inbuilt only?

Can you connect to PC, dump folders with tracks inside and it plays them sequentially? Does Shuffle All get to other folders? Or is it dumping tracks in root only?

Cheers,

Bruce

I just bought a PAW Pico off eBay, so I'll answer BruceBanner's questions just in case anybody else has made it to the end of this thread. I am writing this as of spring 2019.

1) drive IEMs
- I've used a few different set of bud-style headphones with the unit and it certainly plays sufficiently loud. To be heard well over a vacuum cleaner? Eh...

2) a well and proper shuffle
- there's a switch on the side which controls playmode: OFF - SHUFFLE - LOOP
- from what I can tell so far it somewhat works, but is buggy
-- if you wanted to shuffle everything, the only method appears to be to put all your tunes in a root folder and switch the device on, into shuffle mode
-- using the app, you can play everything by using the "All Songs" section, but it doesn't seem like it will reliably shuffle around that, especially if you use the FFWD keys to skip a track

3) EQ?
- nope, none to speak of

4) stream to BT headphones
- nope
- the device does support BluetoothLE, but that's only for communication to/from the app for control purposes

5) how does the folder structure work? microSD?
- you can group music into folders, a long-press on FFWD or RWD will skip to the next folder and start playing at the first track
- no expansion memory is supported

Ultra-mini review based on my experiences across the last week:

The Good:
- the PAW Pico does play music, which sounds great
- the device is small, well constructed (feels more Japanese than Chinese) and subtle -- a purist's device
- it plays FLAC, DSF, and high-bitrate MP3's without any problem
- the clip is sturdy and I'm sure would hold up to jogging, buttons are minimal but functional, volume knob feels nice and isn't too sensitive

The Bad - The Player:
- there is no external indicator of battery charge level, or even an indicator in the app. You can have it read out to you when you push a button, in Chinese.


- in non-shuffle mode, tracks play in strict alphabetical order, so depending if you've padded your tracks with leading zeros, you'll get tracks played in order 1-10-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9, etc.
- you can arrange your music in folders, but not subfolders, I had a double-disk set with two folders under the main folder -- mixes all the tracks together so you get 1-1-10-10-2-2-3-3-4-4 etc
- connection between the app and the player is not robust -- I've had to turn the app and device off and on in sequence a number of times to "catch" the two in a state where they'll recognize each other
- there does not appear to be any location to download an English-language device firmware -- if such a thing even exists.

The Bad - The App:
- the app on iPhone is just barely releasable -- I would call it a beta -- yes, you can play music, and select tracks, but it is extremely unfinished feeling
- the app is in English, but the translation is poor
- things you can't do in the app:
-- build, modify, or view playlists -- because there's no such concept on this device
-- view album art or track details such as bitrate (all tracks play with the same bizarre graphic of a vinyl record spinning with blue feathers? on it)
-- manage any device music settings, like repeat modes, shuffle state, EQ
-- search by anything (track, artist, genre, filetype)
 
Mar 22, 2019 at 7:27 PM Post #233 of 242
I just bought a PAW Pico off eBay, so I'll answer BruceBanner's questions just in case anybody else has made it to the end of this thread. I am writing this as of spring 2019.

1) drive IEMs
- I've used a few different set of bud-style headphones with the unit and it certainly plays sufficiently loud. To be heard well over a vacuum cleaner? Eh...

2) a well and proper shuffle
- there's a switch on the side which controls playmode: OFF - SHUFFLE - LOOP
- from what I can tell so far it somewhat works, but is buggy
-- if you wanted to shuffle everything, the only method appears to be to put all your tunes in a root folder and switch the device on, into shuffle mode
-- using the app, you can play everything by using the "All Songs" section, but it doesn't seem like it will reliably shuffle around that, especially if you use the FFWD keys to skip a track

3) EQ?
- nope, none to speak of

4) stream to BT headphones
- nope
- the device does support BluetoothLE, but that's only for communication to/from the app for control purposes

5) how does the folder structure work? microSD?
- you can group music into folders, a long-press on FFWD or RWD will skip to the next folder and start playing at the first track
- no expansion memory is supported

Ultra-mini review based on my experiences across the last week:

The Good:
- the PAW Pico does play music, which sounds great
- the device is small, well constructed (feels more Japanese than Chinese) and subtle -- a purist's device
- it plays FLAC, DSF, and high-bitrate MP3's without any problem
- the clip is sturdy and I'm sure would hold up to jogging, buttons are minimal but functional, volume knob feels nice and isn't too sensitive

The Bad - The Player:
- there is no external indicator of battery charge level, or even an indicator in the app. You can have it read out to you when you push a button, in Chinese.


- in non-shuffle mode, tracks play in strict alphabetical order, so depending if you've padded your tracks with leading zeros, you'll get tracks played in order 1-10-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9, etc.
- you can arrange your music in folders, but not subfolders, I had a double-disk set with two folders under the main folder -- mixes all the tracks together so you get 1-1-10-10-2-2-3-3-4-4 etc
- connection between the app and the player is not robust -- I've had to turn the app and device off and on in sequence a number of times to "catch" the two in a state where they'll recognize each other
- there does not appear to be any location to download an English-language device firmware -- if such a thing even exists.

The Bad - The App:
- the app on iPhone is just barely releasable -- I would call it a beta -- yes, you can play music, and select tracks, but it is extremely unfinished feeling
- the app is in English, but the translation is poor
- things you can't do in the app:
-- build, modify, or view playlists -- because there's no such concept on this device
-- view album art or track details such as bitrate (all tracks play with the same bizarre graphic of a vinyl record spinning with blue feathers? on it)
-- manage any device music settings, like repeat modes, shuffle state, EQ
-- search by anything (track, artist, genre, filetype)


Hey! I'm still subscribed to this so thanks for replying back!

I appreciate the replies to my points and your own mini review. This is currently my rig I am using;

46899499711_efd8024f69_h.jpg


I'm using a Alien Shozy paired with a Fiio A1 and find the sound quality excellent and with a decent degree of variation via the 3 different EQ Bass presets courtesy of the A1. However it's big and heavish coming in to around 100g. And not a really good clip solution.
I do cleaning for a living so the vacuum part of the question was whether with good quality IEMs you could attain volumes that would drown out a vacuum :D

So what IEMs did you use for your testing?

The Paw Pico I am thinking would pair really well with the A1 and create a lighter 'running/jogging' solution. As you can see I am already used to using a screenless DAP and all the quirks you mention I can get around. I take it the Paw Pico doesn't do gapless playback tho does it?

Thanks again.

Oh one last thing, no sd card means internal memory only, which means connect to PC via USB for file transfer. I take it that it's only USB2.0, slow speeds transfer speeds right? :'(
 
Mar 23, 2019 at 1:26 AM Post #234 of 242
Hey! I'm still subscribed to this so thanks for replying back!

I appreciate the replies to my points and your own mini review. This is currently my rig I am using;

I'm using a Alien Shozy paired with a Fiio A1 and find the sound quality excellent and with a decent degree of variation via the 3 different EQ Bass presets courtesy of the A1. However it's big and heavish coming in to around 100g. And not a really good clip solution.
I do cleaning for a living so the vacuum part of the question was whether with good quality IEMs you could attain volumes that would drown out a vacuum :D

So what IEMs did you use for your testing?

The Paw Pico I am thinking would pair really well with the A1 and create a lighter 'running/jogging' solution. As you can see I am already used to using a screenless DAP and all the quirks you mention I can get around. I take it the Paw Pico doesn't do gapless playback tho does it?

Thanks again.

Oh one last thing, no sd card means internal memory only, which means connect to PC via USB for file transfer. I take it that it's only USB2.0, slow speeds transfer speeds right? :'(

I would say you might still want that Fiio amp if you want to mask external noise. I generally am very moderate in my listening levels, but I've had the Pico turned up to 75%+ to keep up with sound in the external environment.

The first set of earbuds I used with the Pico were some Amazon "KZ ATE" buds which claim to be "IEM's" -- though that could be disputed. I'm still breaking in my ATE's, and the Pico didn't necessarily push my opinion much further in either direction. Today while out and about, I wore some cheap and cheerful "Panasonic Ergofit HEJ120" buds which I think I bought in an airport lobby a few years back. The Panasonics do a good job with isolation, and I found myself getting lost in the warm, enclosed sound.

I haven't specifically tried gapless, I do know that a Buddha Bar CD I was listening to which has a continuous mix, did have short gaps between tracks -- though I don't know if it was encoded to be strictly gapless. Nothing major, audibly the same type of dropout you might hear on vinyl, just enough to let you know the track was switching.

The memory is indeed internal -- all files must be loaded over USB cable. I can't remember where I read this, but coupled with the transfer speed I'm seeing, I'm pretty sure it's USB 2.0. Most of my files are 320kbps MP3s which aren't too bad, but a 200mb/track FLAC is going to get a lot more tedious.

If you're willing to put up with quirks, I'd say go grab one when they pop up on eBay and try it out for yourself. I actually wasn't seeking out a Pico, it came up while I was looking for a different device on eBay, but the design and concept intrigued me. In terms of wearing it, popping in a set of earbuds, and largely jamming through a single album in a session, I think this device does a great job of that. Doesn't get in the way, doesn't weigh you down, can easily be clipped inside a pocket if you don't want to snag it on stuff. I found it particularly nice to reach down to my belt with my left hand and tweak volume settings to match what was happening around me -- much in the same way you'd do on a piece of professional stage audio equipment.

BTW, one reviewer said he was primarily interested in the Pico as a fitness tracker with the onboard GPS, and I think that's not a great reason to buy this device. I turned on the GPS, took a walk through my office park, and here was my experience:
- long-holding the Fn button engages sports mode, complete with countdown in Chinese
- except it's not a real countdown, or you'd be foolish to start running right then, the GPS isn't warmed up, so it was another 1-2 minutes before the device confirmed signal lock with the LED
- while in sports mode, the device automatically plays from your "sports" music folder, mine only had the demo track on it
- in theory, the device is supposed to match music with the BPM of your pace or something, well with only 1 track, it didn't seem to do anything other than loop it
- when I arrived back at my office, the announcer voice was coming on to announce my stats, which would have been approximately at the 1km mark if it was tracking correctly -- which it seems like it was
- but how do you get your stats/mileage/GPS course as seen in promotional screenshots?
- in the partner app, there's options to synchronize your sports, which claim to do that; when you sync with the app it will also seemingly sync your sports data without being prompted
- however, I cannot find any actual record of my activity anywhere in the app -- just gone. As someone who used to work professionally in the business of run-tracking software, this is the worst sin: losing your user's activity data.
- maybe it might link up with GPS faster after having locked in this area 1x, maybe my walk might show up in the history once I do another event -- but really then, you have to ask 'why?' I haven't been able to view a tracked activity, but I doubt it'd be easy to move that GPS track onto any useful platform to compare it with others. There's lots of free and better options for recording with your smartphone, or any of the modern smartwatches if you want that info.
 
Aug 31, 2019 at 12:19 AM Post #235 of 242
No, as far as I know.
And besides I´m not able to find the Paw Pico yet as a bluetooth device, even with the latest firmware and with the sport mode active. And I don´t know is anyone has been able to do it.
Just bought the Pico and encountered same problem with yours previously. Could you please advise how you manage to solve the BT issue? Thanks.
 
Aug 31, 2019 at 3:00 AM Post #236 of 242
Just bought the Pico and encountered same problem with yours previously. Could you please advise how you manage to solve the BT issue? Thanks.
It has been a long time since then, but as far as I remember It was solved with a firmware update. Don’t forget to enter the Sport Mode to turn on the Bluetooth.
 
Dec 19, 2021 at 10:47 AM Post #237 of 242
Anyone still using their PAW PICO? How do they hold up? (sound quality, build, battery, etc)

I like the convenience of the phone+dac but listening music with a dedicated device with no screen is really a special experience to me.

It seems that this market is way too niche. I haven't seen any new screenless DAP coming up. Or did I missed something?
 
Dec 19, 2021 at 11:12 AM Post #238 of 242
I still use it for running, when I don´t need a screen. Just play, run and enjoy. Paired with Westone UM3X the sound is powerful and detailed. The battery is working perfectly, I didn´t notice a big reduction of the playing time.
 
Dec 19, 2021 at 11:40 AM Post #239 of 242
Anyone still using their PAW PICO? How do they hold up? (sound quality, build, battery, etc)

I like the convenience of the phone+dac but listening music with a dedicated device with no screen is really a special experience to me.

It seems that this market is way too niche. I haven't seen any new screenless DAP coming up. Or did I missed something?
Mine sits on my WFH desk and sadly is mostly a fidget toy for conference calls. Still plays as well as ever, but my go-to DAP is now a Hiby R3 Pro. I definitely don’t use the GPS capabilities of the Pico. :wink:

I’m still drawn to the concept of a tiny, purpose-built screenless audio device as well — a modern-day Walkman? — but the fussiness of the Bluetooth connection to my phone (and tragic mobile app) makes it just easier to use the Hiby with its expandable storage, touchscreen, and wifi.

Side note: there’s a feature which wasn’t very well explained — selecting a song to match the BPMs of your actual running stride. It does do… something… but for best results you’d have to have a decent library of music, all tagged with the BPMs (and all in your SPORTS) folder, and then do some extensive running. While testing it, I was able to get it to switch songs based on my pace (kinda?), but in practice my runs weren’t long enough to warrant an hour playlist. Innovative idea though, and I congratulate them for that.
 

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