[edvardd]

My hope is that other companies will catch up on this technology and release similiar quality products under 1500$. Hopefully within 2 years.

 

[Edwood]

I wouldn't hold your breath, there was one company (Yamaha) that licensed SVS codec from Smyth Research, but they cancelled the product.
 
As long as people keep buying into multiple drivers inside a full sized headphones as working then, HRTF based systems still have no chance, and even then, Dolby Headphone owns the mass market now, even though it's a tiny tiny percentage.
 
I would think that higher end manufacturers like Astro Gaming would want to use a stripped down version of Smyth SVS codec.   Because even their implentatio of Dolby Headphone is not the best.  (the JVC Victor SU-DH1 is better).
 
-Ed

 

[dsperber]

Quote:

I have a new DAC coming in, a Audio-gd Reference 7. I am planning on using it for both my computer and Realiser. Here is a question. I have read before that optical can not carry 7.1 audio. I know that it will be decoded coming out of the Realiser, but I was wondering if that is still the case. 99% of my content is 5.1, but I would be disappointed if in order place a better DAC in the chain I had to abandon the opportunity for 7.1.
 
 
 

Ok... I may just not be understanding here.
 
The optical output from the Realiser is simply carrying the still-digital 2-channel stereo signal that would otherwise go to the headphone amp in analog, if you used the analog 2-channel headphone outputs on the Realiser.
 
Yes, it's "SVS processed" 2-channel stereo, but that's all it is... extracted before going through the D/A-converter for analog output to the headphone amp, and sent to the digital optical output.
 
This optical output has nothing to do with the original 5.1/7.1 input, other than that it's the final result of SVS processing via PRIR/HPEQ.
 
Am I missing something?

 

[TruBrew]

No, I don't think you are. For whatever reason I forgot it was a 2 channel signal going out. I feel a little stupid now that I am thinking about that.
 
Quote:

Ok... I may just not be understanding here.
 
The optical output from the Realiser is simply carrying the still-digital 2-channel stereo signal that would otherwise go to the headphone amp in analog, if you used the analog 2-channel headphone outputs on the Realiser.
 
Yes, it's "SVS processed" 2-channel stereo, but that's all it is... extracted before going through the D/A-converter for analog output to the headphone amp, and sent to the digital optical output.
 
This optical output has nothing to do with the original 5.1/7.1 input, other than that it's the final result of SVS processing via PRIR/HPEQ.
 
Am I missing something?

 

 

[dsperber]

Quote:

No, I don't think you are. For whatever reason I forgot it was a 2 channel signal going out. I feel a little stupid now that I am thinking about that.
 


 

There's currently no "digital input/output" on the Realiser (at least at the moment), to pass-through "untouched" a digitally received input signal on to say an AVR and sound system.
 
But this does seem like a reasonable construction feature, perhaps maybe they'll do that in maybe the next generation of Realiser which presumably will also include an HDMI digital input instead of just the current 8-channel analog inputs.  I would think that Smyth would still probably want to avoid including a decoder, so the HDMI input would presumably carry a decoded discrete-channel bitstream, but maybe they'd be willing to build in a decoder so that the HDMI input could be the pure original still-encoded multi-channel source.
 
Anyway, it seems reasonable to me that until and unless there is an HDMI digital input on the Realiser, that there would never be a justification and/or need for a digital ouptut (and it would no doubt be HDMI, to support 7.1, lossless, etc. in this digital pass-through mode).
 
Just wishful thinking, for the moment.

 

[TruBrew]

How can you not see the justification of a digital output. Sure, it is going from digital to analog to digital back to analog. And Digital in/out would be better, but that doesn't mean using the current optical out is not a better option than using the stereo RCA out, if that is what you are saying. 
 
I would rather have my Reference 7 turn the EQ'ed digital stereo signal from the Realiser back to analog, than the Realiser do that. 
 
I have heard idea of mentioned several times about the Realiser accepting a decoded digital HDMI signal. That sounds great in theory, but maybe I am overlooking one thing. What devices can output a decoded digital signal. My receiver has HDMI inputs and outputs. Does the HDMI out carry the decoded 5.1/7.1 audio?

 

[Alghazanth]

Would this REALLY be worth the money over Dolby Headphone if only used for gaming and the occasional movie?

 

[maverickronin]

Quote:

Would this REALLY be worth the money over Dolby Headphone if only used for gaming and the occasional movie?

If you game a lot.  This is quite high on my wishlist of things I can't afford.

 

[Alghazanth]

Quote:

If you game a lot.  This is quite high on my wishlist of things I can't afford.

I do, though I simply can't comprehend what sort of improvement it brings at such a price over DH for games. T1+mixamp , for instance, just feels totally complete. Can anyone describe exactly what it does that DH with a high end open can can't?

 

[maverickronin]

Quote:

I do, though I simply can't comprehend what sort of improvement it brings at such a price over DH for games. T1+mixamp , for instance, just feels totally complete. Can anyone describe exactly what it does that DH with a high end open can can't?

If DH already seems to work perfectly for you in gaming then you may not need it.  FPS gaming doesn't exactly need realism.  If you're being competitive, exaggerated may even be better.  I've never heard it with a personalized HRTF so I can't really offer any meaningful comparisons but I'm an imaging nut and love soundstage with movies/anime so I'd buy it in a second if I had that kind of disposable income.

 

[TruBrew]

If you start from the beginning there is plenty to read, and there website does a good job of explaining what is does and how it works. I don't want to ramble about all of that, but maybe someone else will. I will however give you a quick story. I was in LA at AIX studio getting measurements taken. I was setting up their JBL 5.1 system. The speakers are placed high on the walls, and I decided to stand for the recording rather than sit. It lowered the virtual speaker placement. Anyway, after taking the measurements, Lorr has you test the recording. The system plays audio through the headphones and then through the speakers when you take them off, it works using the headtracker. I was testing the left channel when I realized the virtual speaker sounded like it was a foot farther back than the real one. After a few minutes I figured out why the virtual system did not match. I had taken a step back from where I had taken the recordings. 
 
The point of that whole story is that the Realiser does such a good job of virtually recreating the sound of a room, I could easily tell when it was off by only a foot. That being said, the Realiser is only as good as the source. The sound is so good, I sometimes come across things that sound bad with it. It is more often TV shows than anything else. I can tell when a show is mixed poorly; it will sound hollow or muffled. On the other hand, I watched the Dark Knight on BD a few days ago and it was amazing. For anyone who has the JBL and B&W recordings from AIX, I preferred the JBL's. It gave me the big/loud sound a movie like that should have, but without the excessive reverb a place like the Egyptian has.
 
To Alghazanth, I am sorry if only a small portion of that made sense. That turned into half an answer for you, and half just a comment to the others here who have been to AIX.
 
Quote:

Would this REALLY be worth the money over Dolby Headphone if only used for gaming and the occasional movie?

 

 

[Alghazanth]

Quote:

If you start from the beginning there is plenty to read, and there website does a good job of explaining what is does and how it works. I don't want to ramble about all of that, but maybe someone else will. I will however give you a quick story. I was in LA at AIX studio getting measurements taken. I was setting up their JBL 5.1 system. The speakers are placed high on the walls, and I decided to stand for the recording rather than sit. It lowered the virtual speaker placement. Anyway, after taking the measurements, Lorr has you test the recording. The system plays audio through the headphones and then through the speakers when you take them off, it works using the headtracker. I was testing the left channel when I realized the virtual speaker sounded like it was a foot farther back than the real one. After a few minutes I figured out why the virtual system did not match. I had taken a step back from where I had taken the recordings. 
 
The point of that whole story is that the Realiser does such a good job of virtually recreating the sound of a room, I could easily tell when it was off by only a foot. That being said, the Realiser is only as good as the source. The sound is so good, I sometimes come across things that sound bad with it. It is more often TV shows than anything else. I can tell when a show is mixed poorly; it will sound hollow or muffled. On the other hand, I watched the Dark Knight on BD a few days ago and it was amazing. For anyone who has the JBL and B&W recordings from AIX, I preferred the JBL's. It gave me the big/loud sound a movie like that should have, but without the excessive reverb a place like the Egyptian has.
 
To Alghazanth, I am sorry if only a small portion of that made sense. That turned into half an answer for you, and half just a comment to the others here who have been to AIX.
 


 

I can see why it would be amazing for movies, but I still don't understand what it provides you in games. A can like the T1 with Dolby Headphone already seems to reach as far as the game's compressed audio will allow it.
 
 

 

[TruBrew]

That may be true. I don't play a ton of video games.

 

[dsperber]

Quote:

How can you not see the justification of a digital output. Sure, it is going from digital to analog to digital back to analog. And Digital in/out would be better, but that doesn't mean using the current optical out is not a better option than using the stereo RCA out, if that is what you are saying. 
 
I would rather have my Reference 7 turn the EQ'ed digital stereo signal from the Realiser back to analog, than the Realiser do that. 

I'm not clear what you're describing in your first sentence.
 
Yes, it's likely true that having an external DAC convert the still-digital SVS-processed L/R-stereo signal from the Realiser to analog, rather to use the internal DAC insider the Realiser, will probably produce better sounding results from your headphones, fed from the SVS-processed ouput.  I'm sure your Reference 7 is superior to the TI 1398 chip inside the Realiser.  I'm not disputing that, and certainly that's what the optical output on the Realiser is for.
 
On the other subject, I was simply thinking out loud for a "digital pure pass-through", of untouched 8-channel in/out, if there were an actual 8-channel digital input to the SVS processing in the Realiser instead of just the 8-channel analog input.  This could obviously only be accomplished via HDMI and could support both lossless and lossy source.
 
If there was an external processor that could both (a) decode encoded source, and (b) provide it as discrete channel PCM (or bitstream?) over HDMI, and then the Realiser accept that discrete channel PCM source via HDMI so that there would be no need for analog input and A/D-conversion, it seems that this would be the ideal setup.  And then the pure digital pass-through, sending out via HDMI whatever was received as input via HDMI, that's what I was referring to.  This has nothing to do with the optical digital headphone output feeding your external DAC with SVS-processed L/R-stereo intended for headphones.

 

[TruBrew]

I do agree with you, that would be an ideal setup. I mentioned in a post somewhere that a major problem in that theory is I do not know of a device that can decode Dolby/DTS etc, and send it out PCM over HDMI. I can not see that being a feature added to any receiver or pre-pro ever. It would be great though, it would increase sound quality of the Realiser, and also cut down on production cost as it would no longer need an AD or DA chip.
 
The only way I could ever see that happening is if Smyth built the device, and sold the Realiser as two separate boxes. That way when a new audio codec came out you would only need to but a new $500 decoder box, rather than another $3000 Realiser.
 
As for my first sentence, I was asking you why you thought the optical out was pointless. Obviously you do not, but thats the impression I had from what you said on your previous post.