[darinf]

Quote:

I received an A8 on loan and have recorded our home system and listened to the playback using the Stax SR202 headphones and amp.
Candidly, while the spatial effect is remarkable, the sound is a little coarse in comparison to what I hear from our speakers.
Having listened to the SR202 and amp direct from the DAC, without the A8, it appears that the issue is (possibly) more with the headphones and amp then with the A8.
Now, here's the challenge. My hope was/is to record the output of the A8 so I can travel with a pair of excellent headphones (and amp, if necessary) and not have to carry the A8. For travel purposes, lugging the device around would be too much.
I love the Stax SR009 phones, but the amps to drive these are, for travel purposes, huge. And the expense of both those headphones plus the A8, to say nothing of an amp, is pretty steep.
Is there a potential solution out there for me that will give me or am I trying too hard to create a travel-system?
Thanks,
Joel

I have never heard the 202's, but I have the 407's with 323A amp and they work very well. To be honest, I have been VERY impressed with a pair of modified Koss PortaPro's for portable listening. I was skeptical, but thoroughly impressed now. Sure they're not as good as my Stax, but for the $40, they are great for portable use.
 
You might also look at the new Stax 002 portable. It's not available yet, but they should be for sale in the US this month. Headamp is taking pre-orders (scroll to the bottom of the order page) and he says he should have them in stock in early November:
 
I have also been somewhat successful using FooBar and some VST plug-ins to be able to replicate Realiser playback without a Realiser on my laptop. Then you don't even have to pre-record the Realiser output. It can apply the Realiser PRIR in real-time.
You can see my earlier post about it here.
 
I record the Realiser digital output and then put those files on my Sansa Clip+ to listen with my Koss PortaPro headphones. I think it sounds pretty good for $80 worth of gear.

 

[darinf]

Quote:

About recording sound from the Realiser, the last time I tried that I tried to record surround 5.1 directly from the optical output to optical in on my pc. Maybe in 2 channel mode things would sound the same but trying to catch the surround feeling didnt work for me. Not sure how it would sound from the analog headphone out, you would expect it should sound the same.

I have recorded 5.1 music and movies from the optical output and the analog phones output and get great results with the surround effect. The digital recording was MUCH better than the analog rcording using my portable audio recorder.
 
What file format and sampling rate are you using to record? I am using 24/48 WAV files or FLAC files to listen on my Clip+.
 
What headphones are you using to play back the recordings? Which DAC or source are you using?
 
I am guessing it may be more of an issue with your playback chain than an inherent problem with recorded Realiser output. If you think about it, there should be no difference as long as you are using relatively good recording technique and playback hardware.

 

[darinf]

Quote:

I have never heard the 202's, but I have the 407's with 323A amp and they work very well. To be honest, I have been VERY impressed with a pair of modified Koss PortaPro's for portable listening. I was skeptical, but thoroughly impressed now. Sure they're not as good as my Stax, but for the $40, they are great for portable use.
 
You might also look at the new Stax 002 portable. It's not available yet, but they should be for sale in the US this month. Headamp is taking pre-orders (scroll to the bottom of the order page) and he says he should have them in stock in early November:
 
I have also been somewhat successful using FooBar and some VST plug-ins to be able to replicate Realiser playback without a Realiser on my laptop. Then you don't even have to pre-record the Realiser output. It can apply the Realiser PRIR in real-time.
You can see my earlier post about it here.
 
I record the Realiser digital output and then put those files on my Sansa Clip+ to listen with my Koss PortaPro headphones. I think it sounds pretty good for $80 worth of gear.

Other options could be accurate/flat IEM's or CIEM's for travel/portable use. I have a pair of Etymotic ER-4S IEMs and their high end is really good and work well with the Realiser output. However, they are pretty lacking in the bass. I have also listened to the Heir 4.Ai and 3.Ai universal IEM's with the Realiser. I would not bother with the 3.Ai's, but the 4.Ai's are very good and have a lot more bass than the ETy's.
 
Or you could go with higher end custom IEM's, but it's hard to audition them.
 
Also, don't forget that you lose head tracking with any portable playback. This can make the effect much less convincing unless you hold your head really still. I find that when I am walking/running, the effect kind of collapses since the speaker location is moving with your head. I also get the same effect when I am lying down. The speakers are up in the air above my bed!
 
Still, I really enjoy being able to listen to the Realiser "on the go" or just relaxing at the beach, on a plane, etc.

 

[Kiritz]

Quote:

I received an A8 on loan and have recorded our home system and listened to the playback using the Stax SR202 headphones and amp.
Candidly, while the spatial effect is remarkable, the sound is a little coarse in comparison to what I hear from our speakers.
Having listened to the SR202 and amp direct from the DAC, without the A8, it appears that the issue is (possibly) more with the headphones and amp then with the A8.
Now, here's the challenge. My hope was/is to record the output of the A8 so I can travel with a pair of excellent headphones (and amp, if necessary) and not have to carry the A8. For travel purposes, lugging the device around would be too much.
I love the Stax SR009 phones, but the amps to drive these are, for travel purposes, huge. And the expense of both those headphones plus the A8, to say nothing of an amp, is pretty steep.
Is there a potential solution out there for me that will give me or am I trying too hard to create a travel-system?
Thanks,
Joel

I have the entry level 202's as well.  I am listening to PRIRs made in some excellent listening rooms.  Not only is the spatial effect remarkable, but the overall sound quality is quite good as well.  That said, I do think that any limitations in my auditory experience right now are due to the headphones.  After all, ultimately the signal, however good, winds up being translated into sound by the phones.  So I am planning to upgrade to a more expensive version of the STAX headsets soon.  But another possibility in your case could be the way the PRIR was made.  You might want to try to make a few more versions in the same room as very small differences in microphone placement can have an impact.  In some rooms increasing the time that the calibration tones play can be beneficial.

 

[Jand]

I wanted to put together a quick post of my impressions of the Realiser.  I just got back from a trip to LA where I was able to do a series of PRIRs at AIX, and, thanks to Darinf’s hard work, a couple of amazing 2.0 setups (from which we created 7.0 virtual configuration – which was surprisingly easy to do and effective!).  I had never heard the Realiser before and was simply going based on the positive experiences described by people in this thread and elsewhere.  Based on those, my expectations were very high, but I have to say the Realiser simply blew them away.  I couldn’t believe how well it reproduced the sound and location of the speakers in the mixing room at AIX.  After doing the initial configuration sweeps with the mics in my ears, Lorr of Smyth Research who was graciously doing the PRIRs for me told me we were going to test the localization of the virtual speakers from the headphones.  The sound was so real, however, and sounded so much like it was coming from the speakers, I thought the speakers were playing!  I just assumed we were going to play the signal from the speakers first and then from the headphones.  I only realized after going around the room and hearing each “speaker” play a test signal, that in fact the sound I was hearing was from the headphones, and the speakers were never on.  The effect was so convincing that I swore I could feel the floor vibrating from the speakers which were never on – that’s just how convincing the effect was.  There was no trickery involved and Lorr certainly wasn’t trying to fool me – it was simply I wasn’t ready for such an incredibly realistic effect. 
Listening to the built-in Realiser test jingle and some music material, using the entry-level Stax 2170 set and a 407/323s combo, I could tell a very slight difference in the bass response vs. the actual loudspeakers.  It seemed like the bass was a little bit less tight than with the speakers.  But the differences were minor at most.  However, when I tried the Realiser with the LCD3 & Bryston BHA-1 amp, I literally could not tell the difference between the loudspeakers and the Realiser.  I certainly don’t have an especially refined ear so YMMV, but to me, it was impossible to distinguish between the Realiser and the very high-end speaker configurations I was A/Bing.  I therefore decided to upgrade to the LCD3/BHA-1 setup to go with the Realiser. 
If you are at all interested in the Realiser, I can’t recommended it highly enough.  It does everything it promises to, and then some.  Kudos to the Smyth team for an incredible product. 
Thanks so much to Lorr of Smyth Research for his help and patience doing the PRIRs at AIX, and Mark of AIX for opening his facility to Realiser users.  And much thanks to Darinf too for his help in arranging the PRIRs at Acoustic Zen and Audio Revelation, and sharing his expertise!   

 

[Kiritz]

Quote:

I wanted to put together a quick post of my impressions of the Realiser.  I just got back from a trip to LA where I was able to do a series of PRIRs at AIX, and, thanks to Darinf’s hard work, a couple of amazing 2.0 setups (from which we created 7.0 virtual configuration – which was surprisingly easy to do and effective!).  I had never heard the Realiser before and was simply going based on the positive experiences described by people in this thread and elsewhere.  Based on those, my expectations were very high, but I have to say the Realiser simply blew them away.  I couldn’t believe how well it reproduced the sound and location of the speakers in the mixing room at AIX.  After doing the initial configuration sweeps with the mics in my ears, Lorr of Smyth Research who was graciously doing the PRIRs for me told me we were going to test the localization of the virtual speakers from the headphones.  The sound was so real, however, and sounded so much like it was coming from the speakers, I thought the speakers were playing!  I just assumed we were going to play the signal from the speakers first and then from the headphones.  I only realized after going around the room and hearing each “speaker” play a test signal, that in fact the sound I was hearing was from the headphones, and the speakers were never on.  The effect was so convincing that I swore I could feel the floor vibrating from the speakers which were never on – that’s just how convincing the effect was.   

Hi Jand,
 
Wait until you get the Realiser and set it up with your PRIRs!  I have AIX 2.0 and 5.1, plus several others I made in good rooms with good speakers.  I also have a number of good PRIRs made by others.  However, the Acoustic Zen setup and the Magico setup far surpass anything I have heard yet, in terms of realism, localization, tonality, etc.  Both of these setups, in my opinion, are far superior to AIX for listening to music.  I am thinking that a mixing room and a listening room can be two very different beasts.  I truly feel I now understand how good it can get.  I am now listening to music with a 95% emulation of systems and rooms valued at tens of thousands of dollars.  Yes, it would be great to possess one of these rooms.  But I am very content with being 95% there at a fraction of the cost.

 

[dsperber]

Quote:

I have AIX 2.0 and 5.1, plus several others I made in good rooms with good speakers.  I also have a number of good PRIRs made by others.  However, the Acoustic Zen setup and the Magico setup far surpass anything I have heard yet, in terms of realism, localization, tonality, etc.  Both of these setups, in my opinion, are far superior to AIX for listening to music.  I am thinking that a mixing room and a listening room can be two very different beasts.  I truly feel I now understand how good it can get.  I am now listening to music with a 95% emulation of systems and rooms valued at tens of thousands of dollars.  Yes, it would be great to possess one of these rooms.  But I am very content with being 95% there at a fraction of the cost.

 
Did I miss reading something about this?  Has there been mention of a place to visit for this "Acoustic Zen setup" to get a PRIR measurement there for 2.0 audio, and specifically listening to music?
 
Please elaborate.  I'm interested.

 

[darinf]

Quote:

 
Did I miss reading something about this?  Has there been mention of a place to visit for this "Acoustic Zen setup" to get a PRIR measurement there for 2.0 audio, and specifically listening to music?
 
Please elaborate.  I'm interested.

I am not sure if you have been following the PRIR Exchange thread, but there was initially a brief mention of it there.
 
Basically, at one point, I had offered to set up some measurement sessions locally here in San Diego. Kiritz and then later Jand took me up on my offer and flew here to get the measurements done.
 
You can read about it here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/610920/smyth-svs-realiser-prir-exchange-thread/285#post_8848789
 
And there are a few subsequent follow up posts.
 
Not sure if I would do it again for free. It was a lot of time and effort and required me to take about two days off work and the time before arranging and scheduling the sessions at the various locations. I am also not sure how willing the other people or sotres would be willing to let be come back again for free.
 
However, if people were willing to pay the system owners and me, then I could probably arrange more PRIR sessions.
 
I am also hoping to become a Smyth dealer in the near future. When that happens, I would be able to offer customers who buy from me the opportunity to come to San Diego and do multiple PRIR sessions.
 
-Darin

 

[dsperber]

Quote:

Basically, at one point, I had offered to set up some measurement sessions locally here in San Diego. Kiritz and then later Jand took me up on my offer and flew here to get the measurements done.
 
You can read about it here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/610920/smyth-svs-realiser-prir-exchange-thread/285#post_8848789
 
And there are a few subsequent follow up posts.
 
Not sure if I would do it again for free. It was a lot of time and effort and required me to take about two days off work and the time before arranging and scheduling the sessions at the various locations. I am also not sure how willing the other people or stores would be willing to let be come back again for free.
 
However, if people were willing to pay the system owners and me, then I could probably arrange more PRIR sessions.
 
I am also hoping to become a Smyth dealer in the near future. When that happens, I would be able to offer customers who buy from me the opportunity to come to San Diego and do multiple PRIR sessions.
 
-Darin

 
I see.  No, I wasn't following that thread.  I wish I'd known about it because I could have driven down to San Diego last week, to be part of the group.  I'd love to have one or two high-end 2.0 PRIR's which based on the comments are truly superb for music.  Sorry I missed the opportunity.
 
Anyway, if you do (or want to) put together another similar "PRIR caravan", and specifically visiting the Audio Zen setup, please include me in the wannabe list.  You can PM me, or just post something here.  I would have no problem paying for the time, and also for your PRIR measurement expertise.
 
thanks for the info.

 

[darinf]

Quote:

 
I see.  No, I wasn't following that thread.  I wish I'd known about it because I could have driven down to San Diego last week, to be part of the group.  I'd love to have one or two high-end 2.0 PRIR's which based on the comments are truly superb for music.  Sorry I missed the opportunity.
 
Anyway, if you do (or want to) put together another similar "PRIR caravan", and specifically visiting the Audio Zen setup, please include me in the wannabe list.  You can PM me, or just post something here.  I would have no problem paying for the time, and also for your PRIR measurement expertise.
 
thanks for the info.

I'd be willing to do it again. I will keep you on the list. If anyone else is interested, PM me. It would probably me more cost effective if we had more than one person come along. I have no idea at this point how much it would cost since I would have to contact the system owners to see what they are willing to do. Up until now they have been gracious enough to let me use their systems for free. I could also probably find some additional locations for measurements. But I could definitely do the Acoustic Zen and the Magicos again. I also really need to setup my Cello speakers in a decent location because I think they have the potential for amazing sound in the right room.
 
Anyone else interested?

 

[Jand]

Quote:

Hi Jand,
 
Wait until you get the Realiser and set it up with your PRIRs!  I have AIX 2.0 and 5.1, plus several others I made in good rooms with good speakers.  I also have a number of good PRIRs made by others.  However, the Acoustic Zen setup and the Magico setup far surpass anything I have heard yet, in terms of realism, localization, tonality, etc.  Both of these setups, in my opinion, are far superior to AIX for listening to music.  I am thinking that a mixing room and a listening room can be two very different beasts.  I truly feel I now understand how good it can get.  I am now listening to music with a 95% emulation of systems and rooms valued at tens of thousands of dollars.  Yes, it would be great to possess one of these rooms.  But I am very content with being 95% there at a fraction of the cost.

 
Yeah I can't wait!  Sounds like the LCD3s will be a couple weeks unfortunately, they're out of stock and manufacturing them to meet demand at the moment.  One of the things I love about the Realiser is I can use different speaker setups for different material at the hit of a button.  My interest in the Realiser is both for music and movie listening, which would often require different speaker setups tailored to each to get the most out of the experience.  I'm planning on using the AIX PRIRs for movies, due to their perfectly measured 5.1/7.1 speaker angles and dampened room, which I think will be ideal for movie watching.  Plus, they have a JBL THX 5.1 set-up with multiple speakers arranged in an array and above ear-level as it would be in a movie theater, which I think will be interesting to use with a lot of 5.1 material -- you can argue that since the director initially mixes the sound in a film for a 5.1 theater set-up just like this, this is the way the film was intended to be heard (though of course I'm sure the 7.1 Blu-Ray mixes are just as high quality and well thought-out).  Either way, it's sure a fun way to listen to a movie.  I was amazed at how well with this 5.1 setup the Realiser captured not just the Azimuth of the speakers but perfectly captured their height as well -- mindblowing.  
For 2.0 music, however, there's no question I'll be using the Acoustic Zen and Magico setups -- it doesn't get any better than that!
I HIGHLY recommend anyone with a Realiser and the time/money to spare to make it to San Diego, to take Darinf up on his offer.  

 

[Jand]

I'm looking for a fairly cheap SACD/DVD-Audio player to use with the realiser that will output multichannel LPCM via HDMI.  I'm using the PS3 for a Bluray player, it seems to work fine with the Realiser, outputting multi-channel LPCM, and it is also apparently capable of playing FLAC files.  So I've been looking at some older outdated DVD players to use as SACD/DVD-Audio player, from back when high-end ones commonly supported those formats.  One that seem sa good candidate is the Pioneer DV-600AV, it apprently will provide up to 5.1 LPCM output via HDMI of decoded SACD signal.  However, it specifies the signal receiving device must be copy-protection compliant (HDCP).  I assume the Realiser is, or it wouldn't work with any modern HDMI-out devices.  Is this correct?  Also any other suggestions for a fairly inexpensive SACD/DVD-A player with LPCM HDMI output would be highly appreciated!  The old Oppo ones seem to occasionally pop up on ebay but tend to go for well over $100.

 

[zowki]

Would it be feasible for someone to upload a recording from the Realizer so we can all have a listen to how it sounds? I understand that it will lack head tracking but it would still be very helpful.

 

[jcx]

the personalization, individual headphone eq are both central to the result, as is headtracking - it really tells you little unless you can sit in front of real loudspeakers in a room, do the cal, compare immediately
 
you really have to experience the SVS Realizer system, with personal calibration - we already have some "dismissing" or po mouthing the SVS - when pressed some "sharing" their opinions turned out to have never done the cal, used the headtracking
 
 
there are binaural recording demos around, some like the result with other virtualizer sw like Dolby Headphone
 
 
http://jaxov.com/2009/09/top-10-binaural-recordings-auditory-illusions/
 
http://www.dolby.com/us/en/consumer/technology/home-theater/dolby-headphone.html

 

[darinf]

Quote:

Would it be feasible for someone to upload a recording from the Realizer so we can all have a listen to how it sounds? I understand that it will lack head tracking but it would still be very helpful.

I created a Realiser On-line Demo page.
 
One danger of posting demo files is that many people may find that the simulation does not work for them. Then they walk away with a negative impression of the Realiser.
 
Please bear in mind that the Realiser definitely works really well, but ONLY if you do a personal measurement of a system with YOUR ears.
 
Here's the demo page. I am not sure it it will help or hurt, but there it is:
http://realiser.us/realiserdemo.htm