Little Dot MK8SE / MK6 Super Mods (All verified mods are on first page)
Dec 9, 2016 at 1:35 PM Post #2,146 of 4,154
Grats baron, hope you learned a few things from your experience.
You should check out the MK6 schematic if you want to learn more about it, troubleshooting is hard when you don't know what does what.
The schematic doesn't seem to be on the first page though, it's probably lost in the depths of these pages somewhere. Just P.M. me if you want it.
 
I recently blew up both my dac and my laptop when a loose ground clip on my usb oscilloscope touched my 275v supply, so Instead of shipping it to china for repairs I'm going to do the same thing I did when I originally broke my MK6 and reverse engineer it and learn from it. After I'm done with that I'll just order a new USB and DAC module which I suspect are problem, however this means once again I'm without music for a while 
frown.gif
.
 
 
My amp project is almost done though, I've completed the input stage and it performs beautifully, at least on the scope, I haven't heard it yet sadly although because of what it is it should make the MK6 input stage sound like garbage in comparison.
My higher end scope revealed a dead silent background and revealed only a very small 100Mhz+ oscillation which is good and possibly only due to the fact that the whole thing is exposed, last time I listened to a DIY amp in here I could hear radio broadcasts though it.
It passes the square wave test perfectly and the amplified waveforms look beautiful which is no surprise because the distortion should be stupidly low.
 
 
 
The output stage is not fully built yet but the one I've concocted simulates at 0.000016%  with 30v p-p into 8 ohms (yes really) which is many orders of magnitude better then any other design I've ever simulated. Even if the real life results were 100 times worse (which will never happen) it would still be 0.016%..
I called BS at first but the simulations are accurate as long the the component models are good and the parasitics are realistic. No matter what component models I use, what voltages I use, or what reasonable parasitics I add or even if I use mismatched components the results are pretty much the same, which means the topology itself is solid and the real life results should be close.
I'm pretty excited to try this one out in real life and overall I'm pretty proud of the overall amp design right now. Can't wait to get some actual listening in.
I've got about a half dozen other interesting and/or unique amp designs I am going to build as well, using either designs of my own or alterations and improvements on other known designs.
 
Dec 10, 2016 at 12:02 PM Post #2,147 of 4,154
Is that PCB in the top pic the LD one or your modded one because it looks a lot different to the old one?
 
Good luck with your build, hopefully at least one of your designs will live up to expectations!
 
Dec 10, 2016 at 1:54 PM Post #2,148 of 4,154
Is that PCB in the top pic the LD one or your modded one because it looks a lot different to the old one?

 
The top one is the Audio-GD NFB-1 DAC that I broke. I doubt they will lend me a schematic so I have to do through the tedious process of reverse engineering it if I don't want to ship it out to china.
 
 
 
Good luck with your build, hopefully at least one of your designs will live up to expectations!

It better, I've spent the every day for a year contemplating and simulating these designs. But from an engineering perspective they are the bees knees so I"m not too worried about it. In a few days I'll have what I need to finish my output stage and I'll probably use an ipod or something as a dac replacement for a listen.
 
Dec 11, 2016 at 4:30 AM Post #2,150 of 4,154
  baronbeehive great that you have your amp back to live! 

 
Hi Mogos! Yes I'm going to be doing a lot of listening to catch up now
smily_headphones1.gif
. You guys with your working amps are having all the fun!
 
Any changes to your system? I would like to get the HEK's, are you still happy with your V1 and how would you describe the soundstage I imagine it works well with the LD.
 
Dec 12, 2016 at 5:02 PM Post #2,151 of 4,154
HEK's amaze with the sound qualities in every aspect. Especially after some minor mods. They have the same huge soundstage as HD800 but deeper and better filled with instruments. I have folowed some of the mods from these instructions but a little different way
And I have replaced crappy 50 cents minijack socket. With the minijack there is a problem to use different connection wires and the plug tend to get loosend from the socket very easily. It almost costed me loss of one driver as one of the connection wires broke off and I had big dificulty to resolder it. So be very cearfull with those wires.
But there is another side of HEK's. Avarage comfort and ergonomics and poor quality built materials. Eg. the pads have plastic rings for attachment to the driver housing. You have to take them off from time to time to clean hairs comming through the fabric screen (at least I have to do it). Even if you are very cearful with removing the pads it is very easy to broke the plastic mounting rings as they are made of poor quality material. In my case the pads are pushing against the head to mutch. It has also impact on the sound qualities. With original head band solution I cant lessend the clamping force.
Sorry for offtopic record.
To be at least a little to the subject I am addting the amp photo with the 7193 Kan Rads tubes.

And the very special edition of the HEK's :)


 
Dec 13, 2016 at 12:24 PM Post #2,152 of 4,154
HEK's amaze with the sound qualities in every aspect. Especially after some minor mods. They have the same huge soundstage as HD800 but deeper and better filled with instruments. I have folowed some of the mods from these instructions but a little different way
And I have replaced crappy 50 cents minijack socket. With the minijack there is a problem to use different connection wires and the plug tend to get loosend from the socket very easily. It almost costed me loss of one driver as one of the connection wires broke off and I had big dificulty to resolder it. So be very cearfull with those wires.
But there is another side of HEK's. Avarage comfort and ergonomics and poor quality built materials. Eg. the pads have plastic rings for attachment to the driver housing. You have to take them off from time to time to clean hairs comming through the fabric screen (at least I have to do it). Even if you are very cearful with removing the pads it is very easy to broke the plastic mounting rings as they are made of poor quality material. In my case the pads are pushing against the head to mutch. It has also impact on the sound qualities. With original head band solution I cant lessend the clamping force.
Sorry for offtopic record.
To be at least a little to the subject I am addting the amp photo with the 7193 Kan Rads tubes.


And the very special edition of the HEK's :)





That is excellent info on HEK you should also post in HELV1 thread.
Did your HEK come with that rear grill??

Also, how do you like those power tubes with adapters?
Are they similar, or better than normal MK6 power tubes??
:)
 
Dec 13, 2016 at 12:40 PM Post #2,153 of 4,154
I've just got back from the engineers and while I was there I had a sound check on the repaired amp.............. and all I can say is....... OMG ......... simply stunning! I'll stop there but the hairs are going up on the back of my neck again. .

Yep, I have been looking around for a second amp to use as backup for burn in tubes and burn in my headphones...

The realization hit me that the greatest strength of these amps are that they are BOTH OTL & OCL design...
They WAY surpass the other amps which use heavy transformer or huge capacitor coupling...

DIRECT OUTPUT TUBE COUPLING = most pure sound..


That is their advantage, over all these other tube amps in this category...

Yet, I also believe other factors in stock MK6/8 are a compromise,
Like what I would agree with Coin that the driver stage could be better.
As is, the driver tubes are sipping power and not optimally biased, BUT,
They are very clean sounding, with the elevated heater ground and some clever design of common cathode on the pos&neg inputs.

I abandoned MK8 driver tube choice of 12a*7 tube and bias points,
And instead went for an 6c8g with increased bias...
It is a much livelier tube.
I prefer this to ALL the normal 6sn7 variants of MK6.
,
:)
 
Dec 13, 2016 at 1:02 PM Post #2,154 of 4,154
That is excellent info on HEK you should also post in HELV1 thread.
Did your HEK come with that rear grill??

Also, how do you like those power tubes with adapters?
Are they similar, or better than normal MK6 power tubes??
smily_headphones1.gif

It is not a grill. I have installed material similar to the one used for the speaker screens from outside. It is similar solution metioned in the other instruction but done without opening the headphones. To mask the edge of the material I have glued decorative string around.  After the problem with the broken wire I wish never erver again to open the headphones :). The mod is very recomended as it helped midrange frequenciec to be more pronounced. Now there is a great balance over the whole frequency spectrum.
The tubes are for driver stage. They are far better than the normal MK6 driver tubes. Similar to 6C8G. 6C8G are slightly warmer and with fuller body but the 7193 KenRads have better transients reproduction.
 
Dec 13, 2016 at 1:12 PM Post #2,155 of 4,154
 and some clever design of common cathode on the pos&neg inputs.

The common cathode is actually necessary to reject common mode noise picked up by the cables, this is one of the main advantages of balanced design other than the distortion being cut in half.
 
I will be selling my MK6 soon because I need the money (knew I shouldn't have re-bought that thing 
tongue.gif
) so if anyone wants an mk6 for sale I can pre-mod it for you or whatever.
 
Maxx, I ordered a chassis for my latest and greatest design so I can move it around. We will have to meet at some point so I can try your headphones and yggy and compare amps since you are relatively close to me.
 
Dec 13, 2016 at 2:31 PM Post #2,156 of 4,154
That is excellent info on HEK you should also post in HELV1 thread.

Did your HEK come with that rear grill??


Also, how do you like those power tubes with adapters?

Are they similar, or better than normal MK6 power tubes??
:)

It is not a grill. I have installed material similar to the one used for the speaker screens from outside. It is similar solution metioned in the other instruction but done without opening the headphones. To mask the edge of the material I have glued decorative string around.  After the problem with the broken wire I wish never erver again to open the headphones :). The mod is very recomended as it helped midrange frequenciec to be more pronounced. Now there is a great balance over the whole frequency spectrum.
The tubes are for driver stage. They are far better than the normal MK6 driver tubes. Similar to 6C8G. 6C8G are slightly warmer and with fuller body but the 7193 KenRads have better transients reproduction.

Wow ok great,
but I assume your running stock bias,
Increasing bias should also get more benifits since stock setting so low.

PM sonic for his optimal values as I have not finished my bias testing.
 
Dec 14, 2016 at 6:04 AM Post #2,157 of 4,154
Maxx, a bit off topic but a few words please about why the HEK is so good, it looks like end game. There are only a few slight issues for me but would not be important. Could you link to the that HEK thread.
 
I forgot to mention when I heard the amp at the engineers that he used only a cheap £10 CD player bought off ebay as a source which was then put through a Soundcraft Folio mixer, no DAC, and it still sounded amazing!!
 
Dec 24, 2016 at 5:11 AM Post #2,158 of 4,154

 
 
Hey.......... what's Sonic's amp doing over here? Wait a minute......... that's mine
biggrin.gif
. Spot the difference.
 
There are now 5 or so very happy LD owners on this forum, fantastic 
beyersmile.png
.
 
Edit:
 
In case there is anyone else out there thinking about doing the mods, what are you waiting for? Just look at page 1 and my mods pages: 50, 53, 55, 57, 62, 65, 66, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, which include pics. Also Mogos mods are here; 33-38, and SonicTrance here: 23, 43, including some great pics.
 
For troubleshooting and fault finding you can look at pages 126-143 where a common fault in circuits was tracked down up to the point of fixing it. I was a complete beginner in electronics work and circuit testing before I did this and was not confident at all but I feel much better at it now and have picked up a lot with the excellent help of forum members.
 
I'm having to find an excuse to go in the room to look at the amp now every 5 minutes and its getting ridiculous!
 
Dec 25, 2016 at 7:10 AM Post #2,159 of 4,154
 
 
 
Hey.......... what's Sonic's amp doing over here? Wait a minute......... that's mine
biggrin.gif
. Spot the difference.
 
There are now 5 or so very happy LD owners on this forum, fantastic 
beyersmile.png
.
 
Edit:
 
In case there is anyone else out there thinking about doing the mods, what are you waiting for? Just look at page 1 and my mods pages: 50, 53, 55, 57, 62, 65, 66, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, which include pics. Also Mogos mods are here; 33-38, and SonicTrance here: 23, 43, including some great pics.
 
For troubleshooting and fault finding you can look at pages 126-143 where a common fault in circuits was tracked down up to the point of fixing it. I was a complete beginner in electronics work and circuit testing before I did this and was not confident at all but I feel much better at it now and have picked up a lot with the excellent help of forum members.
 
I'm having to find an excuse to go in the room to look at the amp now every 5 minutes and its getting ridiculous!

If you want yours to look like mine you're gonna have to make some aesthetic mods too!
 

L3000.gif


smily_headphones1.gif

 
Good to hear that you're finally enjoying your MK6 the proper way with mods in place!
 
Now, go ahead and do the Ra switch mod and 5998/421A bias mod! 
wink_face.gif

 
Dec 27, 2016 at 8:53 AM Post #2,160 of 4,154
Baron
 
What was your final build composed of please and where did you source them from here in the UK?  
 
What were all the elements you replaced, including wiring?
 
I note that HiFi Collective has a seasonal reduction running up to New Year, which is where I assume you got at least some of your components.
 
I have had to delay my mods due to family matters, but now want to finally get down to sorting it out.
 
Thanks
 

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