Light Harmonic GEEK

[zenpunk]

If your product is indeed  superior to the competition and you can prove it, you would be silly not to bragg about it.

 

[jaywillin]

  If your product is indeed  superior to the competition and you can prove it, you would be silly not to bragg about it.

as they say "it ain't bragging if you can back it up"

 

[FraGGleR]

Competitive matrices are a staple of marketing and business presentations. As long as they are not misrepresenting anything, it is all good.

I am more excited than I should be for this thing. Can't wait to hear it for myself. Maybe a month from now.

 

[themad]

Pretty impressive the voltage output of more than 4V... IIRC, the USB maximum output is 5V, right?
I'm very curious to see it drives a pair of HE-500 sufficiently.
 
And what version did Gavin use? Regular, Super or Super Duper? I searched but couldn't find it.

 

[kugino]

having recently used and sold an iDSD (which, btw, i liked a lot), the noise floor measurements b/n the iDSD and the geek out are pretty impressive in the geek's favor. sensitive IEMs on the iDSD definitely have audible background noise, though in my normal use it wasn't a big deal when playing music.
 
the iDSD and geek are not in the same competitive space, though...yes, there may be some overlap, but the iDSD is a bit more versatile (USB->SPDIF converter, RCA outs, battery power) at the expense of size. based on pure technical measurements, however, the geek out looks pretty amazing. can't wait to get mine.

 

[miceblue]

You're basically saying how superior your device is and bragging about it. It's like a cheap shot really.

Name one other audio company who calls out the competition (and a specific model in particular) for being not as good. I can't think of any at the top of my head.

http://www.audiophilleo.com/comparison.aspx

I see comparison matrices like these all the time

That's the first time I've ever seen such a matrix before; and also the first time I've heard of Audiophilleo. XD

 

[miceblue]

Pretty impressive the voltage output of more than 4V... IIRC, the USB maximum output is 5V, right?
I'm very curious to see it drives a pair of HE-500 sufficiently.

And what version did Gavin use? Regular, Super or Super Duper? I searched but couldn't find it.

Only the Super Duper was listed to have a 4 VRMS output rating. That was also missing from the test: which model they were using.

 

[themad]

Cool, thanks.
I'm still trying to figure out why did I order the Super and not the Super Duper version... I'm working on that, though.

 

[AxelCloris]

Only the Super Duper was listed to have a 4 VRMS output rating. That was also missing from the test: which model they were using.

 
It's a pretty safe bet they were testing the Geek 1000 against the competition. It'll make their unit look better in testing and it's what their production partners are currently manufacturing so they'll have those on hand. I assumed from the start that they were testing the 1000. Whenever LH talks about the model in interviews they always seem to mention that 1W output spec and the price tag of the 450.

 

[kugino]

   
It's a pretty safe bet they were testing the Geek 1000 against the competition. It'll make their unit look better in testing and it's what their production partners are currently manufacturing so they'll have those on hand. I assumed from the start that they were testing the 1000. Whenever LH talks about the model in interviews they always seem to mention that 1W output spec and the price tag of the 450.

haha. yeah, that's a typical marketing ploy. tout the highest/best model's specs, but provide the lowest model's cost.  perhaps a better way to phrase their marketing would be, "up to 4W output" and "starting at $199"...

 

[lithium1085]

Someone with more technical abilities than me can probably help out here (looking for NwAvGuy... LOL). The THD + noise and crosstalk specs are truly class defining. I think these measurements should however come with the following disclaimers-
 
1. Noise floor is dependent on the bit depth so if you compare the dragonfly or meridian (playing a max of 24 bit) with any device playing 32 bit, the noise floor should be theoretically lower with
32 bits. A more appropriate comparison would be running the same bit depth on everything. You can argue that it is not the geek's fault that others cannot handle 32 bits. But at the same time considering that the maximum amount of music is available at CD bit depth of 16 bits, you can also argue that the extra bit depth is mostly not being used.
 
2. Higher output voltage is a choice of design. Lower output voltages can be very useful considering that they will not require high levels of digital volume attenuation which will basically strip bits from the data (thus reducing 32 bit depth or any other bit depth being used). This loss will be very harmful when you are playing CD bit depth of 16 bits as every bit is essential in this context.
 
3. SNR is dependent on output voltage. If you output high voltage(=signal) for the calculation then your SNR will be higher. Thus, audible noise in a realistic situation may or may not be directly correlated to these SNR values. These high voltages would be relevant only at volumes which would make you deaf very very quickly.
 
I would remind everyone that I am a paying backer before you guys think that I am just trying to bad mouth them. I appreciate the novelty and spec transparency that they are bringing to the industry as a whole. Also, I have only recently learnt these aspects of interpreting specs and feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

 

[miceblue]

http://geek.lhlabs.com/force/geekout/898-geek-out-vs-the-others-3rd-installment

One more quick note that I think is important for non-techy people like myself— when we look at measurements that are measured in decibels (dB), every 3 dB difference is equivalent to a multiple of 2. For example, 5 dB is twice as loud as 2 dB. 8 dB is twice as loud as 5 dB and four times as loud as 2 dB.

An increase of 3 dB is a double of sound intensity, yes, but not of perceived loudness.


http://www.audioholics.com/room-acoustics/the-decibel-db

At 1kHz, a 10dB gain correlates with a perceived doubling of loudness in some frequency ranges.

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-levelchange.htm

Ratio doubling means:

− a power level of +3 dB, or a sound intensity level of +3 dB
− an electric voltage level of +6 dB, or a sound pressure level of +6 dB
− a loudness level of about +10 dB
− 10 dB more SPL means 10 times increase in amplifier gain (amplification).
...
Doubling of the volume (loudness) should be felt as a level difference of 10 dB − acousticians say.
Doubling the sound pressure (voltage) corresponds to a measured level change of 6 dB.
Doubling of sound intensity (acoustic energy) belongs to a calculated level change of 3 dB.

I'm also curious as to why the Geek Out's two channels measurements are often out of balance with the bar graphs.

 

[lithium1085]

I'm also curious as to why the Geek Out's two channels measurements are often out of balance with the bar graphs.

 
I am not sure what you mean by that....Could you clarify?

 

[miceblue]

I'm also curious as to why the Geek Out's two channels measurements are often out of balance with the bar graphs.

I am not sure what you mean by that....Could you clarify?

Out Difference: 0.018 VRMS


iDSD Difference: 0.001 VRMS



Out Difference: 0.101 dB


iDSD Differenece: 0.076 dB



Out Difference: 0.427 dB


iDSD Difference: 0.011 dB



Out Difference: 0.309 dB


iDSD Difference: 0.147 dB



Out Difference: 0.366 dB


iDSD Difference: 0.028 dB

 

[lithium1085]

Is it a case of matching channel components? Anyway It is unlikely to have huge significance...