Light Harmonic Geek Wave

[Shawnb]

That "smoking gun" does not reveal "intent" or "no intent" or "premeditated fraud". LH Labs has always claimed they intend on delivering products as the funds allow.

Specifically in regards to order details, let's see which scenario is MOST likely:

1. LH Labs thought that by not keeping track of orders, not delivering products, and knowing they wouldn't actually deliver anything, they felt that situation would NOT impact any LH/L or LH business, everyone would be cool with it, and no damaging bad publicity would ensue.

2. LH Labs KNEW that by intentionally or unintentionally losing orders, everyone would be upset, bad publicity would ensue, business from both divisions would be impacted, they would lose a fanbase, but didn't care.

3. LH Labs was just incompetent to an enormous degree and shuffled order systems around, lost orders by accident, and generally didn't know what they were doing, and in the process screwed themselves over and created unnecessary hardships for customers.

Which scenario do you think is MOST likely for a previously well known respected business?

#3 happened first then #2 happened.
The exact order may be in debate but #2 AND #3 happen.

What should I say?

I have an open ticket since over a year, because they lost the information about what I backed which is not delivered yet. ( 1 HPA and 1 Tube HPA).

After Jarek asked me to provide the information and paypal receipts everything went silent. I also attached previous tickets, where my order was confirmed from various support staff members, who don't seem to work there anymore.

It all occured, because I could not log into the new marketplace system, as my User was deleted or not migrated.

Markus, I will get back to you with the information for your spreadsheet. Thanks for your work.

I upgraded my Source SE to a 2TB model with Manny, paid for it and everything. Was asked multiple times to confirm my order over the years and each time I clearly stated 2TB but when the time came around they used the usual excuse. I mean lie that Larry didn’t know. Had to show PayPal receipts and screenshots of the convo but in the end they refused to honour the deal and only finally sent me a 1TB model. Promised a refund for the upgrade amount but as usual it’s dead silent from them.

Btw as for the Source SE it sounds nice when it works but with all LHL stuff the key words are WHEN it works.
Screen freezes and lags a lot, adding multiple files to a playlist and it can be frozen for minutes. Let it go to sleep it never wakes up. Adding music is super slow, website to navigate and play the music is basic as fu@k. Doesn’t even alphabetize. Has issues seeing the Pulse unless it’s powered on before the Source.
Plus they refuse to let us open it after making replacing HDDS a main feature. Knowing them I can’t help but doubt I really have what they say I do. Can’t trust their word, so I wouldn’t be surprised.

Without a PC for the last month so haven’t used it much. Will post a more detailed review later if I can. It feels lighter then I expected and nothing like the $2500 unit it is. After dealing with the screen headaches I really wish we had the original design.

 

[Bill2112]

Jarek, when you say "LH Labs has always claimed they intend on delivering products as the funds allow" it says to me that there is some type of policy in place at LH that will apportion funds to the IGG projects. Can you please state what this policy is? If there is isn't one, then things will be running pretty much at random....which is typical LHL, and now maybe LH behaviour.

Note, however, that your statement is not true for the campaign itself...it is only true after losing millions.

How's the spreadsheet coming along with all the LHL financial information on it so we backers can see where all of our millions went?

 

[Bill2112]

@shawn "Plus they refuse to let us open it after making replacing HDDS a main feature. Knowing them I can’t help but doubt I really have what they say I do. Can’t trust their word, so I wouldn’t be surprised."

Of course they won't let you open it. Don't do a thing to touch it. They do not have the funds for any type of consistent production, let alone any warranty work. They will be looking for any reason to void warranties as they cannot afford them.

 

[Currawong]

It's pretty obvious what is going on. No need to throw around wild accusations. It's all spelled out.

From https://www.indiegogo.com/about/terms:

Legal obligations of Campaign Owners

1. 
   As a Campaign Owner, you are entering into a legal agreement with a Contributor when they make a Contribution to your Campaign, which includes the following obligations (in addition to the all other Terms and Additional Policies):
   1. Make good faith efforts to fulfill the Perks associated with a Campaign in the timeframe that is communicated to Contributors.
   2. Immediately notify Contributors if there are obstacles or delays.
   3. Respond promptly and truthfully to all questions posed to them by Contributors.
   4. Provide substantive and quality updates at least once a month to Contributors.
   5. If you have received the Contributions from your Campaign, issue refunds to Contributors if you cannot deliver Perks.

See #5 (The quote box hides it). This is the reason I believe Larry is keeping this up. The money is almost certainly gone. IANAL but he can't just can the whole thing without leaving him legally liable for the $600k or whatever it is.

 

[marflao]

It's pretty obvious what is going on. No need to throw around wild accusations. It's all spelled out.

From https://www.indiegogo.com/about/terms:


See #5 (The quote box hides it). This is the reason I believe Larry is keeping this up. The money is almost certainly gone. IANAL but he can't just can the whole thing without leaving him legally liable for the $600k or whatever it is.

Were those the same terms when the campaigns started? I know that IGG has updated them hence I ask myself
i) if the old ones had a different paragraph and
ii) that LHL/Larry doesn't need to worry since the old ones are only applicable for him.

 

[Bill2112]

Not sure what rules cover Larry, but since LHL no longer exists would it matter? It is telling that the rules were changed BECAUSE of LHL...what a farce.

I have contacted IGG a few times with the same old they don't care routine. But since my half decade mark will be coming up in late spring, I'll send them a new email with all the public admissions of incompetence, bungling, and loss of funds. Given that LHL has already broken a tons of rules with impunity, IGG is unlikely to do anything.

Ever notice how the really tough questions of how the money was spent and how many orders vs shipped are never answered by Jarek? These are the questions IGG should be demanding...so it is telling the type of platform it is that they do not.

 

[Bill2112]

It's pretty obvious what is going on. No need to throw around wild accusations. It's all spelled out.

From https://www.indiegogo.com/about/terms:


See #5 (The quote box hides it). This is the reason I believe Larry is keeping this up. The money is almost certainly gone. IANAL but he can't just can the whole thing without leaving him legally liable for the $600k or whatever it is.

We know the money is gone because Jarek has already said so. LHL is no longer solvent and that is why if there are ever any Wave shipments it will only be as "funding permits".

They blew through millions doing who knows what and have no idea what's going on. I'm sure some of the old staff who disappeared from the company may have a clue...maybe we should make a spreadsheet of names to follow up with.

 

[Shawnb]

It's pretty obvious what is going on. No need to throw around wild accusations. It's all spelled out.

From https://www.indiegogo.com/about/terms:


See #5 (The quote box hides it). This is the reason I believe Larry is keeping this up. The money is almost certainly gone. IANAL but he can't just can the whole thing without leaving him legally liable for the $600k or whatever it is.

This is the ONLY reason this is still ongoing.
It has NOTHING to do with Larry wanting to honour his commitments or any other BS spin.
It’s all about keeping Light Harmonic and avoid being liable.

 

[stuck limo]

N It is telling that the rules were changed BECAUSE of LHL

What hard proof exists of this? I know it's easy to speculate; harder to bring forth actual evidence. I would like to see that evidence that literally states or shows IGG staff had a meeting based on SPECIFICALLY LH Labs and went around the table and came up with ideas to combat LH Labs' actions for future campaigns from other companies. Do you have hard proof of this happening you can share with the forum?

 

[m17xr2b]

I believe they changed the rules to avoid issues such as this. The LH Labs campaigns might not have been responsible directly but they want to avoid exactly this sort of behaviour since they want customers coming back. I know I'm not supporting any crowdfunding for unknown companies because of my experience.

 

[Bill2112]

What hard proof exists of this? I know it's easy to speculate; harder to bring forth actual evidence. I would like to see that evidence that literally states or shows IGG staff had a meeting based on SPECIFICALLY LH Labs and went around the table and came up with ideas to combat LH Labs' actions for future campaigns from other companies. Do you have hard proof of this happening you can share with the forum?

It is easy to speculate yes...especially with what has been written in various forums that are hard to keep track of. Tell you what...when I'm back from vacation I'll ask IGG about this...and if you should provide an audit of your funds. Do you have any hard evidence that it was spent on r&d??? It certainly is easy for you to speculate it was. How's that spreadsheet coming along?

 

[stuck limo]

I believe they changed the rules to avoid issues such as this. The LH Labs campaigns might not have been responsible directly but they want to avoid exactly this sort of behaviour since they want customers coming back. I know I'm not supporting any crowdfunding for unknown companies because of my experience.

This is most believable. LH Labs may have been a part of it but probably not the sole reason.

 

[judmarc]

A spreadsheet has been setup to track what people are owed from the LHL/LH Clown Show. This is from computeraudiophile/audiophilestyle:

I filled in my info, I suggest everyone do the same.

Original link:

https://bit.ly/2UHt7sQ


------------------------------------------------------

Sheet has been created:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vE7_LByDDY6w8J-E-l4njfkvXcggTasrG90z11swJww/edit?usp=sharing

In case you want to be part of this sheet pls send me an email to defraudedbylhl at gmail dot com with the following details:

- username (as mentioned.. it is hidden)

- "your" forum where you use the username

- from which continent you are

- which LHL device(s) you have backed and

- how much you paid for each backed device.

Bump.

I know we're not yet at a fraction of the folks who contributed to LHL campaigns and didn't receive product, so please do provide your info if you haven't yet. Thanks!

 

[stuck limo]

Post your questions you'd like to see answered in a Q&A session. Keep in mind:
Any questions you submit may or may not be edited (or included) for brevity, clarity, and for civility.

 

[jdog]

Ok, stuck limo, here goes... I don't really expect to get an answer and most likely my questions will be tossed out, but why in the world is LH Labs or Larry or whoever is still associated with him still pursuing the charade that anyone on this planet can ever expect to ever see or receive a Geek Wave? Haven't you already told us that there are insufficient funds to produce the Waves? This has really been a very, very bad experience for everyone who has perked in any of the LH Labs IGG campaigns, and for you all to give anyone continued false hopes just seems to be an overly cruel thing to do.