[marflao]

First of all they should get a clear overview what each backer has paid for and this should be achievable via the CSV file.

This should be a no brainer, or?

Then they can reach out to them in case their configuration is not feasible anymore due to "simplification reasons".

 

[marflao]

But this was all discussed already in the past.....frightening that this hasn´t been solved yet.
Would really like to know if other (non LHL) campaigns had the same issue or if this is "just LHL related".

 

[m-i-c-k-e-y]

IDK Bro, after LHL in IGG, haven't and will not fund a crowdfunding campaign again.

 

[m-i-c-k-e-y]

Anyone who is interested already probably knows, but our Wave forum is up now and is being monitored and responded to. Larry says he is willing to be on that forum and answer questions. The IGG forum section is no longer being utilized to hold discussions:

https://support.lhlabs.com/discussions/forums/13000000602

If anyone has any question for Larry, I encourage you to go over there and post. Or if you're not interested, I can always copy and paste from Head-Fi. But we are trying to get away from the IGG platform as a discussion tool.

Sorry for overlooking BUT, Jarek my friend, just reminding...

As this is in the SUPPORT section, we do have also one in the official forum: http://lhlabs.com/forum/c/products/geek-wave/.

Not counting IGG, Facebook, Marketplace, Head-fi and others.

Too many places to go Bro.

 

[germay0653]

Michael hit the nail on the head with too many configurations and the IGG CSV limitations. The difficulty stems from linking/matching multiple sub-component (perks), i.e. THD Performance/DAC chip upgrades/etc. to their multiple main component (Wave) choices and what IGG hands back to LHL.

For example, I have three Waves on order, one Titanium Wave SE and two Wave 64's.

If you choose to upgrade each one them differently with regard to sub-components, how do you know/determine which main Wave component they go to? If all they get from IGG is a CSV of ALL perks, there is no link/match between sub-component and main component!

In my case, I had to create a list (EXCEL Spreadsheet) to keep it straight in my own head so I can only imagine the difficulty LHL is having.

This is what (CSV) they got for the Wave, for me, from IGG

Titanium Wave SE
1st Wave 64
2nd Wave 64
Wave Sub-component 1
Wave Sub component 1
Wave Sub-component 2
Wave Sub-component 3
Wave Sub-component 4
Wave Sub-component 5


This (below) is how I want my three waves configured.

Titanium Wave SE:
Wave Sub-component 1
Wave Sub-component 2

1st Wave 64:
Wave Sub-component 1
Wave Sub-component 3

2nd Wave 64:
Wave Sub-component 4
Wave Sub-component 5

How do they make that determination from the CSV list they get from IGG? They CAN'T because there are no relationships between sub and main component choices (perks) ! We have to put it together for them to ensure it gets done right, hence my configuration spreadsheet which I've given to them via a support ticket. I'm not making excuses for them as they knew the limitations of this process from the start but obviously didn't realize it until it was too late.

 

[stuck limo]

Thinking 2 things:

a. Too many products with too many configurations/varieties.
The matrix is just too big/mess that a small company could handle at a given time.
So they tried to simplify, but you can't finalize if you keep changing things.
(We told them at the beginning...No, begged them to reconsider. Well, greed was part of it)

b. They keep shifting platforms.
(For now, many times di you re-register? IDK if it was true. As per GF's reasoning, IGG dumps their DB on CSV/TXT format).​

Both of those. Lots of complicated orders, lots of missing records because of the system/platform changes. When I go into an order, I have to:

a) see if it's in BigCommerce
b) if it's not there, go to IGG
c) if it's not in those, we have to go through PayPal records/Freshdesk chats/emails
d) if all of those fail, or C partially fails, then we're essentially on the honor system

So if anyone is wondering why it's taking so long to get these orders fixed: there's tons of them and it's a long and laborious process.

Another issue is all the perks, so if a person had perk A for item 1 but then used perk B to upgrade to Item 3, then I have to follow the trail around and see what exactly they upgraded to based on the perks. You'd think it'd be pretty simple but it's really not. There's LOTS of combing through data and comparing what the person said to what the perk says and going through all the systems.

 

[stuck limo]

Sorry for overlooking BUT, Jarek my friend, just reminding...

As this is in the SUPPORT section, we do have also one in the official forum: http://lhlabs.com/forum/c/products/geek-wave/.

Not counting IGG, Facebook, Marketplace, Head-fi and others.

Too many places to go Bro.

That official forum is dead and I can't even register there due to some sort of glitch where it won't send me my registration or confirmation.

Michael hit the nail on the head with too many configurations and the IGG CSV limitations. The difficulty stems from linking/matching multiple sub-component (perks), i.e. THD Performance/DAC chip upgrades/etc. to their multiple main component (Wave) choices and what IGG hands back to LHL.

For example, I have three Waves on order, one Titanium Wave SE and two Wave 64's.

If you choose to upgrade each one them differently with regard to sub-components, how do you know/determine which main Wave component they go to? If all they get from IGG is a CSV of ALL perks, there is no link/match between sub-component and main component!

How do they make that determination from the CSV list they get from IGG? They CAN'T because there are no relationships between sub and main component choices (perks) ! We have to put it together for them to ensure it gets done right, hence my configuration spreadsheet which I've given to them via a support ticket. I'm not making excuses for them as they knew the limitations of this process from the start but obviously didn't realize it until it was too late.

All 100% correct. On the invoices, sometimes I have to make a note on the components indicating which Wave it's supposed to go into.

 

[marflao]

Both of those. Lots of complicated orders, lots of missing records because of the system/platform changes. When I go into an order, I have to:

a) see if it's in BigCommerce
b) if it's not there, go to IGG
c) if it's not in those, we have to go through PayPal records/Freshdesk chats/emails
d) if all of those fail, or C partially fails, then we're essentially on the honor system

What a joke... unbelievable that nobody at LHL raised their hand when the first perks were backed. How ignorant can they be.

 

[m-i-c-k-e-y]

I'll ask the Pope to send more Jareks...

 

[stuck limo]

Both of those. Lots of complicated orders, lots of missing records because of the system/platform changes. When I go into an order, I have to:

a) see if it's in BigCommerce
b) if it's not there, go to IGG
c) if it's not in those, we have to go through PayPal records/Freshdesk chats/emails
d) if all of those fail, or C partially fails, then we're essentially on the honor system

So if anyone is wondering why it's taking so long to get these orders fixed: there's tons of them and it's a long and laborious process.

Another issue is all the perks, so if a person had perk A for item 1 but then used perk B to upgrade to Item 3, then I have to follow the trail around and see what exactly they upgraded to based on the perks. You'd think it'd be pretty simple but it's really not. There's LOTS of combing through data and comparing what the person said to what the perk says and going through all the systems.

 

[Nightfish]

I'm curious when Larry will actually show up in the new forum. There are already a lot of questions there for him and the longer he is absent, the more questions probably will pile up...

 

[Lookin4Treble]

Jarek has provided some shade, but he can't change Larry's character. IF Larry shows up on the forum, he'll demonstrate the same inability to provide clear, honest evaluations of where the project stands.

 

[stuck limo]

Michael hit the nail on the head with too many configurations and the IGG CSV limitations. The difficulty stems from linking/matching multiple sub-component (perks), i.e. THD Performance/DAC chip upgrades/etc. to their multiple main component (Wave) choices and what IGG hands back to LHL.

For example, I have three Waves on order, one Titanium Wave SE and two Wave 64's.

If you choose to upgrade each one them differently with regard to sub-components, how do you know/determine which main Wave component they go to? If all they get from IGG is a CSV of ALL perks, there is no link/match between sub-component and main component!

In my case, I had to create a list (EXCEL Spreadsheet) to keep it straight in my own head so I can only imagine the difficulty LHL is having.

This is what (CSV) they got for the Wave, for me, from IGG

Titanium Wave SE
1st Wave 64
2nd Wave 64
Wave Sub-component 1
Wave Sub component 1
Wave Sub-component 2
Wave Sub-component 3
Wave Sub-component 4
Wave Sub-component 5


This (below) is how I want my three waves configured.

Titanium Wave SE:
Wave Sub-component 1
Wave Sub-component 2

1st Wave 64:
Wave Sub-component 1
Wave Sub-component 3

2nd Wave 64:
Wave Sub-component 4
Wave Sub-component 5

How do they make that determination from the CSV list they get from IGG? They CAN'T because there are no relationships between sub and main component choices (perks) ! We have to put it together for them to ensure it gets done right, hence my configuration spreadsheet which I've given to them via a support ticket. I'm not making excuses for them as they knew the limitations of this process from the start but obviously didn't realize it until it was too late.

On a side note, I was informed the only reason we used IGG was because one of the founders is supposedly best friends with Gavin. IGG wasn't originally built for our type of campaigns, and it didn't get to that "level" until 2016 or so.

 

[jdog]

Gee, it looks like Gavin needs to find better friends... You would think that your best friend who runs the platform for your campaign would let you know the limitations of the platform... Unless, Gavin's best friend is every bit as shady as Gavin is... By the way, LH Labs still sports an F with the Better Business Bureau, but the scoundrel IGG has an A+. How in the world IGG could have an A+ rating by the BBB with 35 negative reviews and over 280 negative complaints, all at the same time with no positive reviews, is beyond me... So much for the BBB. But maybe Gavin's IGG best friend should pick better friends too, as this Geek Wave FIASCO has left a huge stain on IGG... I will never, ever "perk" on an IGG campaign again!

I have no idea how LH Labs is ever going to dig out from this mess... Even if a Wave prototype ever materializes, LH Labs is going to have one heck of a time figuring out all the different configurations and who "perked" for what... How Larry ever let the campaign get off the rails like he did is unfathomable.... Looks like to me that greed took over, and all sense of honesty and sanity were pitched out the window. By the way, Stuck Limo, you all showed pictures of the Wave boards in October (10/24/17 to be exact) with the statement that Larry would be working with them in 2 weeks.... So now, it is almost 2 months later, and Larry has no Wave boards? Can you try to reconcile this? Beyond the excuse that the mail from Taiwan is slow....

 

[Lookin4Treble]

How Larry ever let the campaign get off the rails like he did is unfathomable....

This is why I reject any statement that tries to paint the backers (as a whole) as over-reacting. When Larry let 100s of support tickets and unresolved issues build up over many MONTHS...that is clear signal of downfall. Even now, they are struggling to work through these tickets. If Larry can afford to pay Jarek now, why didn't he get some resources in place to handle the backlog before it got so unbelievably bad? It sure looked like they were "giving up" from our perspective. No, I say the discussion of possible class action, and at the very least a BBB complaint, was completely warranted at that time.

And LHL, if you manage to save your company by satisfactorily completing all remaining campaigns, don't be smug and act like you had this under control the whole time. You didn't. Judging by the timing of events, I think in-denial Larry wouldn't have even made the decision to hire Jarek were he not called out in Computer Audiophile.