[stuck limo]

Anyone who is interested already probably knows, but our Wave forum is up now and is being monitored and responded to. Larry says he is willing to be on that forum and answer questions. The IGG forum section is no longer being utilized to hold discussions:

https://support.lhlabs.com/discussions/forums/13000000602

If anyone has any question for Larry, I encourage you to go over there and post. Or if you're not interested, I can always copy and paste from Head-Fi. But we are trying to get away from the IGG platform as a discussion tool.

 

[MikeyFresh]

But we are trying to get away from the IGG platform as a discussion tool.

But why?
Why would the very platform where the crowd funding money was raised, and where the LH Labs claims about finished designs and estimated campaign delivery dates were published, why would that now not be a good place to keep backers informed or engage in any discussion?
Not that you've actually provided any real discussion there in months if not years, but why wouldn't IGG be a primary place for LH Labs to provide information and discussion on the unfulfilled campaigns?

 

[514077]

But why?
Why would the very platform where the crowd funding money was raised, and where the LH Labs claims about finished designs and estimated campaign delivery dates were published, why would that now not be a good place to keep backers informed or engage in any discussion?
Not that you've actually provided any real discussion there in months if not years, but why wouldn't IGG be a primary place for LH Labs to provide information and discussion on the unfulfilled campaigns?

At least, Larry seems to be finally making himself available.

 

[stuck limo]

But why?
Why would the very platform where the crowd funding money was raised, and where the LH Labs claims about finished designs and estimated campaign delivery dates were published, why would that now not be a good place to keep backers informed or engage in any discussion?
Not that you've actually provided any real discussion there in months if not years, but why wouldn't IGG be a primary place for LH Labs to provide information and discussion on the unfulfilled campaigns?

IGG is being utilized for updates on the campaigns, not the discussions. Per the IGG post I made in the comments on all campaign pages:

"Announcement: Please move all discussion over to the Freshdesk forum. This page will no longer be responded to. I’ve stated multiple times IGG is not ideal for forum-based discussion. We are not alerted of new posts, backers can’t post screenshots, and it’s very difficult to manage or communicate with the 500 character count on IGG. No one can even edit their posts on here."

I've also made mention to various people how glitchy IGG is and how much Larry and I hate to use it. It's a nightmare on the backend to deal with.

 

[rpm604]

But why?

Probably because the IGG page is what everyone will see when they are checking the campaign page for updates.

People are being pretty childish/inflammatory over there. Like, it's okay to be upset that your expectations weren't met, you might feel negatively, but don't just throw yourself on the floor and cause a scene. Tantrums aren't the answer. Accusations aren't the answer. Backers are probably adults and should still be able to have a civil discussion in public.

I've gone back pretty far on that comments section, and there are a lot of loaded/leading questions, false/bad assumptions, attacks, accusations, that really can't be responded to. People aren't being even remotely logical.

But it's the kind of outrage that grabs attention. There are people that might be patiently waiting, and they pop over to check the status of the campaign, and see accusations of fraud/class action suit threats/whatever, and they start to panic.

I know, because I was one of them last year. I freaked out for a long minute. I bought into the craze.

But someone on here (I think it was wing?) being super rational helped me get over it, and remember to be objective.

Anyway, that was a long and meandering post... But I think it's important to move the war zone away from innocent bystanders. (Of course, that's not what the angry people want, because they WANT to cause a scene. That's how witch hunts work, but I digress...)

 

[stuck limo]

Probably because the IGG page is what everyone will see when they are checking the campaign page for updates.

People are being pretty childish/inflammatory over there. Like, it's okay to be upset that your expectations weren't met, you might feel negatively, but don't just throw yourself on the floor and cause a scene. Tantrums aren't the answer. Accusations aren't the answer. Backers are probably adults and should still be able to have a civil discussion in public.

I've gone back pretty far on that comments section, and there are a lot of loaded/leading questions, false/bad assumptions, attacks, accusations, that really can't be responded to. People aren't being even remotely logical.

But it's the kind of outrage that grabs attention. There are people that might be patiently waiting, and they pop over to check the status of the campaign, and see accusations of fraud/class action suit threats/whatever, and they start to panic.

I know, because I was one of them last year. I freaked out for a long minute. I bought into the craze.

But someone on here (I think it was wing?) being super rational helped me get over it, and remember to be objective.

Anyway, that was a long and meandering post... But I think it's important to move the war zone away from innocent bystanders. (Of course, that's not what the angry people want, because they WANT to cause a scene. That's how witch hunts work, but I digress...)

There's a LOT of that and that's an issue. I also get accused of providing supposedly misleading information, I post something and my words get completely stripped of meaning and context, borderline personal attacks against me (not to mention Larry), and I think we've been extremely liberal in letting those remain. Otherwise, we get accused of censoring, not allowing "challenges to the corporate line", etc. But honestly it's kind of a dumpster fire and you're right --- it's not really leading to any sort of overall constructive discussion, but I guess that's also understandable given the LHL history.

I hope that with the new forum, the conversation can remain more civil, and while we will have a tighter reign on what exactly is stated, my intention is to not censor the discussion. Like I said; generally I'm OK with discussing LHL business practices. But once it starts getting into "let's sue LHL" and personal attacks, then it becomes real sketchy and some hard decisions have to be made.

We had the same issue on our Facebook page --- it was a dumpster fire sometimes even worse than the IGG page. I ended up (not blocking) "hiding" some posts from some prominent users because they were so vicious and ugly towards us.

 

[Nightfish]

@stuck limo I am not a fan of the move to yet another forum. I can see understand to some extend that you want to get away from the negative comments and attitude on IGG but this is the fourth forum or so that the backers are asked to move to. And I have to make another login - which isn't even working well because in the country where I reside the Google Captchas don't work. So I have to find a work around for that. It's frustrating to see that LHL moves away again from the questions of backers.

Will the open and relevant questions about the Wave and the Source that are still unanswered on IGG and here ever get a reply? Or will you only address the new questions that pop up at your new forum? Will news and updates only get posted in the new forum? What about pictures that have been asked for many many many many times? Will only people that are registered at the new forum find out about that?

Sorry to ask about that here but currently I am not able to register for your new forum.

 

[stuck limo]

@stuck limo I am not a fan of the move to yet another forum. I can see understand to some extend that you want to get away from the negative comments and attitude on IGG but this is the fourth forum or so that the backers are asked to move to. And I have to make another login - which isn't even working well because in the country where I reside the Google Captchas don't work. So I have to find a work around for that. It's frustrating to see that LHL moves away again from the questions of backers.

Will the open and relevant questions about the Wave and the Source that are still unanswered on IGG and here ever get a reply? Or will you only address the new questions that pop up at your new forum? Will news and updates only get posted in the new forum? What about pictures that have been asked for many many many many times? Will only people that are registered at the new forum find out about that?

Sorry to ask about that here but currently I am not able to register for your new forum.

IGG is being utilized for updates on the campaigns, not the discussions. Updates, pictures, announcements, etc. will remain on IGG.

I have already brought several questions over from IGG to the new forum. If people would like to bring over the questions again, they are welcome to do that.

 

[zagtastic]

@stuck limo -- i have a couple of outstanding tickets (aged 211 and 66 days and specifically relating to my order/the configuration i purchased) on lhlabs.com, but have seen no action on them. i understand that you're working on it and don't have bandwidth to just magically get through them all... but i feel i need to ask: at what point should i be concerned that incorrect information there will affect the final product i receive (or when i receive it)? how will we know when you all believe you have gotten through the high-priority ones (so that we can assume any remaining have been lost/missed and escalate accordingly)?

thanks.

 

[stuck limo]

@stuck limo -- i have a couple of outstanding tickets (aged 211 and 66 days and specifically relating to my order/the configuration i purchased) on lhlabs.com, but have seen no action on them. i understand that you're working on it and don't have bandwidth to just magically get through them all... but i feel i need to ask: at what point should i be concerned that incorrect information there will affect the final product i receive (or when i receive it)? how will we know when you all believe you have gotten through the high-priority ones (so that we can assume any remaining have been lost/missed and escalate accordingly)?

thanks.

At some point I'll make an announcement saying I believe we got through all or most of them. Any remaining can submit another ticket or update their tickets.

 

[MikeyFresh]

That's how witch hunts work,

So now LH Labs is due some sort of sympathy? Sounds like a form of Stockholm Syndrome to me. There is no witch hunt, just a desire for whats fair and right.

it's not really leading to any sort of overall constructive discussion, but I guess that's also understandable given the LHL history.

Exactly, and whose fault would that be? So now the problems in fulfilling this campaign are caused by the backers IGG comments?

@stuck limo I am not a fan of the move to yet another forum.

Neither am I, in fact no one is except LH Labs, because it might allow them to further deflect, or even throw many backers completely off the trail.

We had the same issue on our Facebook page --- it was a dumpster fire sometimes even worse than the IGG page.

Again, why would that have occurred? Where can we trace the blame for that? Is that an attempt to paint the backers as villains?

Accusations aren't the answer.

Yes they are, they are completely warranted and need to be addressed in full by LH Labs.

 

[marflao]

@stuck limo
Jarek,

can you explain why this order status mapping is such a mess?
I honestly don´t understand that this takes years.

Just wondering if other IGG campaigns with (for example) 20k or more backers are facing the same issues as LHL.

 

[m-i-c-k-e-y]

Thinking 2 things:

a. Too many products with too many configurations/varieties.
The matrix is just too big/mess that a small company could handle at a given time.
So they tried to simplify, but you can't finalize if you keep changing things.
(We told them at the beginning...No, begged them to reconsider. Well, greed was part of it)

b. They keep shifting platforms.
(For now, many times di you re-register? IDK if it was true. As per GF's reasoning, IGG dumps their DB on CSV/TXT format).​

 

[marflao]

2 things:

• Too many products with too many configurations/varieties. The matrix is just too big/mess that a small company could handle at a given time. So they tried to simplify, but you can't finalize if you keep changing things. (We told them at the beginning...No, begged them to reconsider.)

• They keep shifting platforms. (For now, many times di you re-register? IDK if it was true. As per GF's reasoning, IGG dumps their DB on CSV/TXT format).

#2 is exactly my point. If all data is available as CSV/TXT why the heck does it take years to straighten out the order status.
Just compile a bloody pivot and most of the orders are available.

But maybe I´m too naive here....

 

[m-i-c-k-e-y]

Now we go back to no. 1 reason 3.