[T.R.A.N.C.E.]

Well, the Geek Out V2 is a USB powered device and the Wave is a battery powered device. The Wave base design parameters were finalized before the Geek Out V2. How short of a run time do you want on your Wave?

If you want to compare to AK 240, its output power is 275mW unbalanced, 330mW balanced (calculated from output voltage specs into a 16 ohm load, no compensation for the 2ohm output impedance of the AK), and the Wave X and XD ONLY put out 330mW unbalanced and 640mW balanced! The Wave XDF (probably the same specs as the version sold in the reboot campaign) puts out 450mW unbalanced and 900mW balanced... I am not sure what the signature versions sold in the Wave reboot campaign do to balanced and unbalanced, is the 1W spec unbalanced - I need to research further to try to find out.

I don't see much reason to complain about comparative output power specs.
J.P.

 

I don't see how usb power vs battery power is important, some tweaks in the power supply circuitry and your done. Wave internals were not finalized before Geek out V2, the internals of the Wave were updated to share Geek Out V2 design, there is no excuse to try wring out more money from people for features that are present in the V2 as standard, especially when V2 has already been shipped and Wave hasn't... The Wave specs on indiegogo are outdated, they are from before the Wave was updated to use Geek out V2 internals. I can give you the correct specs:
 
$900 Wave XD,    Balanced: 450mW, Single ended: 225mW
$1245 Wave XDF, Balanced: 1000mW, Single ended: 500mW
 
$1613 Wave XD, (Signature+DAD+THD "upgrades"): Balanced: 1000mW/450mW, Single ended: 500mW/225mW, Gain Switch, Minimum phase digital filter. THD upgrade.
 
$500 Geek out V2 Infinity: Balanced: 1000mW/450mW/100mW, Single ended: 500mW/225mw/50mW, Dual Gain Switch, Minimum phase digital filter. THD upgrade.
$300 Geek Out V2:            Balanced: 1000mW/100mW, Single ended: 500mW/50mW, Gain Switch, Minimum phase digital filter.
 
I'm not complaining about the specs, I'm complaining about Geek's unfair business tactics to extract money from people with so called "upgrades", when in fact they are not upgrades, but merely bringing Wave up to level of Geek Out V2... for $550 extra... for features that should be free, as they are already included in Geek Out V2... Then there's the IEM "upgrade", I haven't looked into it, but probably some form of BS like the other "upgrades", such as using the lower gain setting from V2 and charging extra...

 

[doctorjazz]

You're right about the way the campaign was run and the relative charges...it was a bit like bait and switch, another $100, you have the best available, then, "oh, you want the best, you need this $150 perk", and on and on. The one thing that's exciting, and I think will make a real difference if well implemented, is the femto clock. Think that is a big part of the Larry formula for great sound. If they can get that without the warm up and battery issues in a DAP, I do think it will be something special. But, yeah, it does get me worked up when I think of the campaign, and how I got caught up in it.

 

[nudd]

Also the v2+ is battery powered so i am not sure why that is relevant.

LHL gave all stream people a v2+ with all the upgraded specs for free. So wave backers are very badly rorted by LHL.

 

[Lonelyers]

  ^ I'm not done complaining. Geek out V2 came standard with 1000mW gain switch. But the Wave is crippled with less than half of that power unless you choose to buy the carbon/titanium signature "upgrade" for $288

 which gets you the 1000mW gain switch, that came standard on the damn Geek out V2...
 
Geek already confirmed that Wave is using the same internals as Geek out V2, but even that is not true as they are crippling it and then asking for huge money for "upgrades" that only bring the Wave up to the level of the standard Geek out V2! That is utterly contemptible imo.
 
I'm putting Geek on the same level as AK for being painfully douchey companies that only care about money, AK is more greedy, but Geek is more sly and devious.
 
Ok I'm done complaining now. I just wanted to shed some light on this rather than annoy anyone. End of the day it's up to the consumer to choose whatever they want regardless but they should be aware is all.

 
This makes me feel really sad ... I am one of the foolish guys who took the bait and upgraded my Wave with everything.  I still regret making that decision to this day - there is no way I can get a refund, and I simply cannot get myself to buy the Geek Out v2.  I don't feel comfortable spending more money on any "Geek" products.
 
I can only hope that the Geek Wave would be delivered (who knows - I am worried if their business model is sustainable, now that people have learnt their lesson), and the sound quality of Geek Wave would be at least comparable with the DAPs in the market.  I could have spent the money on Lotoo PAW Gold, and would still have some money left to subsidize my future purchase of Fiio X7.

 

[Lookin4Treble]

I know LHL previously did this with the GO 450 (and this is perfectly within their right), but stuff like this makes me wonder:

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/geek-out-1000-usb-dac-amp

Why deal with a 2-year wait via crowdfunding when you can get the same or even better price simply by waiting a short period after the product actually comes out?
 
Tons of advantages (can see final design before deciding, read reviews, etc.) and only one small disadvantage.   I love having the latest tech, but I will no longer pre-pay for an audio product and agonize over delivery for months/years just to own it a few months before the general public can.

 

[doctorjazz]

Yeah, did the same, Overspent...just waiting and expecting some femto magic when it does finally come. Seems to me if Larry can really pull off keeping the femto warmed up while not killing battery life, it will be a killer unit. My Geek Out Special Edition is GREAT sounding.

 

[rcoleman1]

  I know LHL previously did this with the GO 450 (and this is perfectly within their right), but stuff like this makes me wonder:

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/geek-out-1000-usb-dac-amp

Why deal with a 2-year wait via crowdfunding when you can get the same or even better price simply by waiting a short period after the product actually comes out?
 
Tons of advantages (can see final design before deciding, read reviews, etc.) and only one small disadvantage.   I love having the latest tech, but I will no longer pre-pay for an audio product and agonize over delivery for months/years just to own it a few months before the general public can.

+1. Yeah for me an expensive lesson learned. 

 

[woody88]

Where is my Wave?

 

[doublea71]

Waiting in queue behind all the other LH products that were launched after it. Seriously though, I'm guessing Q1 of 2016. I want them to get it right the first time, so as annoying as the wait is, it may be for good reason. Have some fun over at the Noble thread - somebody cracked open a Savant and posted pics.

 

[woody88]

  Waiting in queue behind all the other LH products that were launched after it. Seriously though, I'm guessing Q1 of 2016. I want them to get it right the first time, so as annoying as the wait is, it may be for good reason. Have some fun over at the Noble thread - somebody cracked open a Savant and posted pics.

 
Is there a status update link for the wave at all? and where is this Noble thread you are referring to? I might be a little slow on that. Perhaps you can point me to a link somewhere?
 
Thanks in advance.

 

[doublea71]

   
Is there a status update link for the wave at all? and where is this Noble thread you are referring to? I might be a little slow on that. Perhaps you can point me to a link somewhere?
 
Thanks in advance.

LH sends out status updates once in awhile, certainly not often enough. As far as the Noble thread, the fun starts at post #15042: http://www.head-fi.org/t/684787/noble-audio-the-wizard-returns/15030

 

[doctorjazz]

 
I know LHL previously did this with the GO 450 (and this is perfectly within their right), but stuff like this makes me wonder:

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/geek-out-1000-usb-dac-amp


Why deal with a 2-year wait via crowdfunding when you can get the same or even better price simply by waiting a short period after the product actually comes out?

 
Tons of advantages (can see final design before deciding, read reviews, etc.) and only one small disadvantage.   I love having the latest tech, but I will no longer pre-pay for an audio product and agonize over delivery for months/years just to own it a few months before the general public can.

+1. Yeah for me an expensive lesson learned. 

There's a difference between Crowdfunding and crowd-designing. I've gone in on crowdfunded things like the Peachtree DeepBlue2, the Pono, I waited a bit to receive both, but both were as described in the initial offer, the waits were not ridiculous, and I'm very happy with both. 1964 Ears had one that I'm sorry I didn't join, haven't heard any complaints about that, though (but, maybe I'm just not paying attention). On the other hand, the ones that involve crowd-designing, which is what LH Labs, can go on forever...people always have different opinions on size, features, etc. Closing off discussion becomes a problem, waits can be incredibly long, especially with many options on offer (CEntrance also did crowd design, if I'm not mistaken. It lead to the HiFi M8 being released in multiple versions, and the "android compatible" version having optical out but not Coax...huh?)

 

[rcoleman1]

There's a difference between Crowdfunding and crowd-designing. I've gone in on crowdfunded things like the Peachtree DeepBlue2, the Pono, I waited a bit to receive both, but both were as described in the initial offer, the waits were not ridiculous, and I'm very happy with both. 1964 Ears had one that I'm sorry I didn't join, haven't heard any complaints about that, though (but, maybe I'm just not paying attention). On the other hand, the ones that involve crowd-designing, which is what LH Labs, can go on forever...people always have different opinions on size, features, etc. Closing off discussion becomes a problem, waits can be incredibly long, especially with many options on offer (CEntrance also did crowd design, if I'm not mistaken. It lead to the HiFi M8 being released in multiple versions, and the "android compatible" version having optical out but not Coax...huh?)

Crowd-funding...crowd-designing...I'm doing neither again. Just give me my Wave and I'll get over it. 

 

[maczh2002]

It's ridiculous after so long, a 3D printer that was said to decrease time needed to churn out prototypes, repeated statements that products were being developed simultaneously (I still don't buy that explanation of "no delays as we are developing in parallel"), the numerous junk mail received for matters OTHER than the geek wave, the update that said" we will ship in q4 2015"...

I'm still waiting for pictures other than the one of "a few cases on a table" taken from a far. Those could have been phone cases just posing as the geek wave for all we know.

How many people backed this after reading the lie on the indiegogo page that said:
"Within two or three weeks of the end of the campaign, we'll confirm the actual delivery schedule."

They did nothing of that sort at all.

And how did they have an "engineering prototype" run for 10 hours continuously on max volume but have nothing physical to show us? It was a lie.



How is it possible that after so long, we still don't have decent picture of a functioning geek wave?

Geek Wave must be an inside joke at LHLAbs.

Just to mention a few good companies: FiiO, Pioneer, Onkyo, Pono, Sony.

Should have foreseen that LHLAbs was incompetent before I backed it.

 

[nudd]

Not to mention during the indemand campaign Casey was taking on bets that it would be delivered by August 2015. Which was clearly unrealistic and still those statements were made with such confidence and bravado.