Light Harmonic Geek Wave
Mar 18, 2015 at 9:15 PM Post #1,651 of 5,933
Ticket system I discovered by trial and erroir is now locates at
http://support.lhlabs.com/support/home
 
and I had to cretae a brand new login to submit my survey ticket problem the Geek force Forums one doesnt work.
 
It's now being in SE Asia that is a problem. I am in Thailand and have a fibre optic connection right to my computer and I still find Lh labs systems impossibly complicated and inaccurate.
 
Mar 18, 2015 at 9:23 PM Post #1,652 of 5,933
  Ticket system I discovered by trial and erroir is now locates at
http://support.lhlabs.com/support/home
 
and I had to cretae a brand new login to submit my survey ticket problem the Geek force Forums one doesnt work.
 
It's now being in SE Asia that is a problem. I am in Thailand and have a fibre optic connection right to my computer and I still find Lh labs systems impossibly complicated and inaccurate.


Their website is a bit of a cluster%&#$ and symptomatic of their organizational/communication weaknesses imo. We have a saying in the rooms....keep it simple, stupid.
 
Mar 18, 2015 at 9:42 PM Post #1,653 of 5,933
The latest from Lh Labs probs when I try to find out if they have actually resolved the problem
BROWSER MESSAGE:
This Connection is Untrusted
You have asked Firefox to connect securely to support.lhlabs.com, but we can't confirm that your connection is secure.
Normally, when you try to connect securely, sites will present trusted identification to prove that you are going to the right place. However, this site's identity can't be verified.
What Should I Do?
If you usually connect to this site without problems, this error could mean that someone is trying to impersonate the site, and you shouldn't continue.
support.lhlabs.com uses an invalid security certificate. The certificate is only valid for the following names: *.freshdesk.com, freshdesk.com (Error code: ssl_error_bad_cert_domain)
 
Eventually:
Oh in addition I have just recieved an email  reply from their "Happiness Agent" which says we know we are having problems we hope to have them fixed by Monday...please check then... Ho hum. At least they replied this time, politely.
cool.gif

 
Mar 18, 2015 at 10:02 PM Post #1,654 of 5,933
  The latest from Lh Labs probs when I try to find out if they have actually resolved the problem
BROWSER MESSAGE:
This Connection is Untrusted
You have asked Firefox to connect securely to support.lhlabs.com, but we can't confirm that your connection is secure.
Normally, when you try to connect securely, sites will present trusted identification to prove that you are going to the right place. However, this site's identity can't be verified.
What Should I Do?
If you usually connect to this site without problems, this error could mean that someone is trying to impersonate the site, and you shouldn't continue.
support.lhlabs.com uses an invalid security certificate. The certificate is only valid for the following names: *.freshdesk.com, freshdesk.com (Error code: ssl_error_bad_cert_domain)
 
Eventually:
Oh in addition I have just recieved an email  reply from their "Happiness Agent" which says we know we are having problems we hope to have them fixed by Monday...please check then... Ho hum. At least they replied this time, politely.
cool.gif

 
Correcting your spelling in a clearly passive-aggressive manner when they have a mountain of their own problems to contend with speaks volumes, does it not?
 
 
Mar 18, 2015 at 10:11 PM Post #1,655 of 5,933
I know someone very well who actually stopped by the LH Labs facility in hopes of hearing a prototype and getting some info on when the units will be available.

He was told there were no prototypes (sounds like a put off to me) and that the units won't be available for 8 months or so.  He was not impressed at all with the way he was treated....like an annoyance.

These people need to recognize that WE make them successful.  James from Fiio was very gracious here as I remember...and I look forward to the FX7. 

LH Labs is promising the world...but can anyone testify to how these things really sound??  Talk is cheap.....I'm not going to put up money for something I can't even hear or read a review on...

On another note...do you guys think Can Jam is worth the time for someone in the market for a portable music player??  Only Hifiman, Astell & Kern and Sony will be there.
 
Mar 18, 2015 at 10:41 PM Post #1,656 of 5,933
  I know someone very well who actually stopped by the LH Labs facility in hopes of hearing a prototype and getting some info on when the units will be available.

He was told there were no prototypes (sounds like a put off to me) and that the units won't be available for 8 months or so.  He was not impressed at all with the way he was treated....like an annoyance.

These people need to recognize that WE make them successful.  James from Fiio was very gracious here as I remember...and I look forward to the FX7. 

LH Labs is promising the world...but can anyone testify to how these things really sound??  Talk is cheap.....I'm not going to put up money for something I can't even hear or read a review on...

On another note...do you guys think Can Jam is worth the time for someone in the market for a portable music player??  Only Hifiman, Astell & Kern and Sony will be there.

 
+1
 
I've been following LH labs IGG campaigns (wave and pulse) for about 4 months now, and i agree with what you haven mentioned.
 
Just my 2cents worth.
 
I know the Verb IEM is outsourced (not built by LH labs themselves) but looking at the reviews the LH labs Verb IEM (which I've backed but have yet to receive) has been getting from headfiers in comparison to what has been marketed to us on the IGG campaign, it was a let down.
 
I'll reserve all other comments till my pair has arrived, but the early reviews by head-fiers have been less than comforting, and while I know that LH labs have had successes in other products, this doesn't inspire any confidence in some who hasn't had any products from LH labs (like me).
 
I've backed campaigns on KS and IGG before, so I do understand the risk of being a crowdfunder. But I had higher hops for the likes of LH labs, seeing as to their reputation. I won't be backing the wave, but I do hope they get their act together. I may just get the wave after the IGG campaign if it is really good.
 
Mar 18, 2015 at 10:55 PM Post #1,657 of 5,933
 
This is getting better and better, yes.  Whether or not a customer can spell is of absolutely zero concern to me.  I'm simply here to offer guidance and corrections when possible.  Such was the case with the customer in question.  Not only did I respond to his concerns in a timely manner by providing an update on the status of the survey, I then proceeded to help him correct his spelling of a word.  
 
That you see this a flagrant and abusive act by a representative of a company is beyond me.  I, nor any LH Labs employee, have zero obligation to be present in these forums to answer questions, provide updates or simply maintain a presence.  It's responses like this that really get under my skin and where I begin to wonder why we even bother.  

 
 
  I know someone very well who actually stopped by the LH Labs facility in hopes of hearing a prototype and getting some info on when the units will be available.

He was told there were no prototypes (sounds like a put off to me) and that the units won't be available for 8 months or so.  He was not impressed at all with the way he was treated....like an annoyance.

These people need to recognize that WE make them successful.  James from Fiio was very gracious here as I remember...and I look forward to the FX7. 

LH Labs is promising the world...but can anyone testify to how these things really sound??  Talk is cheap.....I'm not going to put up money for something I can't even hear or read a review on...

On another note...do you guys think Can Jam is worth the time for someone in the market for a portable music player??  Only Hifiman, Astell & Kern and Sony will be there.

 
Casey, its because you come off condescending and your responses are as if we are just an annoyance.. like you dont want to be here but you think your posting will some how benefit LH.   I dont know you, I dont know what your "Digital Marketing Manager" job duties are but if you dont want to be here, look for a "entry level" employee that does.  
 
"We're working on the survey bugs as we speak" could have been your reply from the very beginning when I posted the issue and everyone would be more understanding.  Id be surprised if we see this in 2015 and if its the "no compromise" player it set out to be.  They have their money. I am going to bet we get a decent player in Q1 2016 and thats it from this division of LH.
 
Mar 18, 2015 at 11:05 PM Post #1,658 of 5,933
   
 
 
Casey, its because you come off condescending and your responses are as if we are just an annoyance.. like you dont want to be here but you think your posting will some how benefit LH.   I dont know you, I dont know what your "Digital Marketing Manager" job duties are but if you dont want to be here, look for a "entry level" employee that does.  
 
"We're working on the survey bugs as we speak" could have been your reply from the very beginning when I posted the issue and everyone would be more understanding.  Id be surprised if we see this in 2015 and if its the "no compromise" player it set out to be.  They have their money. I am going to bet we get a decent player in Q1 2016 and thats it from this division of LH.

I agree with 100% of what is said here.
 
Mar 18, 2015 at 11:27 PM Post #1,659 of 5,933
I'm guessing it is actually an attempt to be funny, but, I have to say, it made me cringe when I read it...people skills, anyone?
As to the Verb mentioned above, I'm one of those folks who has a Geek Out 1K and Special Edition, leaving aside the early firmware mishaps, these are great sounding units...The SE sounds better than the well regarded CEntrance Hifi M8 LX, which I have (though it has no where near as much functionality, and cost a bit, though not much more, if I remember correctly). This had me dive head first into the following campaigns, and they may still turn out great, waiting on the Vi DAC Tube super something or other, the Wave, and other miscellaneous toys. So, I have to say, I'm pretty disappointed in the VERB sound, not close to as good as my Dunu Titan 1, say, similar list price, a bit muddy, bloated bass (yes, I burned it in for 5 days...better than the initial sound, but still lacking. Maybe they need another 5...)
Just sayin'
 
Mar 19, 2015 at 12:28 AM Post #1,660 of 5,933
Before this turns into a LH bashing thread, here are my two cents, having been involved in various aspects of crowd funding, business, project management, and customer support for a while:
 
1) While the delivery/response time-frames and lack of communication seem sub-par for any successful business, they are not at all uncommon for crowd funded offerings. I've backed projects that had minimal communication for 1+ year after a campaign that showed up on my doorstep better than advertised. I've also backed projects with great communication that failed to meet any expectations when they arrived. I would have loved to see LH take the lead in both outstanding communication and a product that exceeds expectations, but I can't say that I'm upset or surprised about it either based on my understanding of the de facto standard relating to the medium. There aren't a lot of companies that offer as much transparency as LH has at times. What would happen if you asked Sony if you could just swing by and have a listen to their prototypes? It's not really common practice to bring customers/people in to your business and just let them hang out and ask questions, especially when you're as far behind and understaffed as LH is right now. That's what retail stores are for. I agree with the philosophy that one shouldn't place more in an investment than they are willing to lose (permanently or temporarily). It's certainly not for everyone.
 
2) From a purely business perspective, LH have placed themselves in a tough situation. The upscale product to which they owe their success (and that people will inevitability compare their other offerings to) has a limited customer base that likely allowed more time focused on each unit/customer with the existing staff. Now that they have attempted to target the masses, it's a whole different model. They are clearly understaffed and I would guess that most (if not all) of the team doesn't have the experience of having grown a business from a tens of units to thousands of units in such a short time, in a drastically different market, in the spotlight of the thousands of people and media. There are growing pains that businesses face. Many are just not as transparent, which gives people less to gripe about. While this probably won't make anyone any more comfortable, I appreciate the struggle that LH is going through to appease customers while they find their direction.
 
3) One huge issue that has come from the above point is that Larry seems to want to give people what they ask for without fully understanding the logistical implications. Sound like any engineers you know? While this is great for choice, it's terrible for product fulfillment. How many companies do you know that crowd design products? Not many, mostly because of never ending work that it adds to completing a product. In a traditional offering, a small business may have spent years on the development of a product, which it releases and sells. Customers say that it's great, but they wish it had feature X. Business modifies design based on customer and internal feedback and releases version 2...cycle continues. By changing the offerings over the course of a few months based on the input from backers, Larry has essentially done years of market research on a product that didn't even exist yet, allowing use cases that wouldn't have been possible for the original design. Is this the best strategy? Likely not, based on how many possible combinations they now have to produce, but it's Larry's vision that you bought in to. Ride it out and trust that he knows where he's going...or don't and remember that sometimes life lessons cost the same as college courses.
 
4) Let's face it, Gavin is entirely too good at his job. He has created a very successful marketing model that capitalizes on an industry know for throwing money at things that may or may not make an actual difference to the average person. Based on the success of the DaVinci, he was able to sell a boatload of Outs to people who had never head either. This grew the fan club which fueled the perk filled campaigns that followed. The snowball effect of people spending hundreds or thousands at a time with sometimes vague or incomplete information and otherwise complete blind faith should show you that he knows how to wear that hat. At the same time, it's hard to complain about subjective aspects of a product after giving money to anyone without having sufficient detail and understanding to be comfortable with the transaction. Would you buy a half priced television without seeing it based on a friends recomendation? I wouldn't...also, a television would be less expensive than what many have spent on LH gear and I doubt Gavin is friends with the majority of backers. Gavin was able to succeed where many in advertising and marketing fail...getting the customers to sell themselves on perks and products. Genius! Unfortunately, I doubt that LH expected the level of support that they received, which probably explains the issues with things like customer support and the surveys. Hiring more people to perform those tasks takes time and costs money, which may have been beyond the scope of the initial plan.
 
5) We can all agree that LH has room for improvement, specifically in the communication and customer service departments, and they've admitted that. I applaud Casey for taking his time to try to clear things up for people here when it's not required. He could just as easily not provide any insight here, forcing everyone to go through the LH forum and ticket system, which I don't think is what anyone here wants. For being one guy, he sure does a lot of their outreach to answer questions, give information, and help with special cases that may otherwise be overlooked. I, for one, would like to give him the benefit of the doubt that his day of dealing with likely upset customers regarding issues that are likely outside of his control are frustrating to say the least. I doubt that he has any malicious intent when he comments on the imperfection in a post calling for perfection. While maybe not expected from the public facing front of a company, remember that he's human. I think his comment speaks more towards his frustration than to the impending doom of the company he represents. It seems that everyone is on edge, with good reason...deadlines, descriptions, etc. are lacking compared to the early days when LH launched the Out campaign. I'm sure that Casey has communicated to Larry and Gavin that the Indians are restless and that LH is in danger of losing the trust of the people who wanted to see them succeed in the bringing hi-res audio to the mainstream. Do they need that trust? No, not really. I mean, my opinion of the values of a company are not really that high on the list of parameters that I look for in a consumer electronic device...but at least they know that they had the chance of being different. Let's try our best to keep it civil, if for no other reason than to not lose our "guy on the inside."
 
6) I have no idea if I'll like the products that I will eventually receive. I've really enjoy my Geek Out 100, but dislike the Verbs. Honestly, it really doesn't matter. I'm hoping that by the time I get my Wave and Vi they'll have worked out some of the bugs, learned from their experience, and I'll have products that I'll use on a regular basis and be proud of. If not, I'll sell them to someone that has a different taste in sound, likely at a profit because of our cost versus MSRP. That's the interesting thing about this hobby to me...everything is subjective and expense is not the magical key to enjoyment. If I receive crumbling piles of metal and LH goes out of business, at least I'll have gained more value in business and marketing insight than the experience cost me...but I'll still need something to drive all these headphones!
 
Mar 19, 2015 at 1:34 AM Post #1,662 of 5,933
I just tried the survey, and I must say the cautious optimism that had built up over the past few weeks seemed to evaporate almost instantaneously
 
1) It seems that the ticket that I submitted recently, which I had felt was properly read through and taken care of, was not all what it seemed. Changes to my order were not noted accordingly.
 
2) After weeks and months of 'the survey is about to be released very very very very soon', followed by people actually questioning why 'very very very very soon' seemed like forever, with LHL repeatedly stating 'BETA testing phase, ironing out kinks', I was actually somewhat happy since it seemed that LHL was adopting a 'do it once and do it right' mentality. If this was something LHL had rushed out, I would just be 'meh. sucks. needs refinement. should be sorted out soon'. but this is the supposed end product of rigorous testing and refinement over the course of many weeks, many months, and many false 'just-a-while-longer' promises, and yet it's still utterly terrible. now LHL is stating 'we're working on it'... umm okay, so how will working on it now be any different from what they've been supposedly working on for all this while?!
 
3) I don't even know where to start in terms of describing what's wrong with the survey, but it's already been expressed by a number of posters here. what I do want to constructively suggest is that, as hard as LHL is working on debugging, please equally work hard on assembling a thorough, step-by-step guide on filling up the form. This should have already been done and released in tandem with the release of the survey. LHL acknowledges that it's very difficult to keep track of perks (due to a variety of reasons no doubt), so they're asking backers to help them out through the survey. Well, in the immortal words of Jerry Maguire: 'help me... to help you'.
 
4) Verb. Was on the verge of buying, but eventually did not. Have not heard it. Glad I have not bought it based on early impressions. I was specifically looking out for @bhazard's impressions on these because of his downright amazing work in the Chinese IEM thread and how my ears agree with his very objective reviews and findings, but the plethora of negative feedback on these was enough to tell me that something is wrong with the Geek Verb. I can understand that some have tried to preach sanity by saying 'well it's really not bad for such a cheap IEM', and I can fully understand... if not for the fact that the Geek Verb IEMs were touted by LHL as an amazing value IEM which was the work of months and months of painstaking tuning by the LHL engineers themselves. Perhaps the Verb has been tainted by poor QC, or LHL was screwed over by the OEM company (most probably it's just not a hyper giant killing IEM at all). It doesn't matter. this is simply a case of self-overhyping, superb marketing, but not having what it takes to follow up with walking the talk and ensuring that backers received exactly what was being promised (in a consistent manner)
 
5) Casey. I'm very disappointed with some of the things he has posted here, and I find his line of logic very flawed. He has no supposedly no obligation to spend his time on forums? Umm okay, then he's in the wrong line, and should stick to working for a company which adheres to a conventional business model, and not a crowdfunding business. I don't really buy the 'it's crowdfunding/crowd-designing, technically he doesn't really have to answer... in my many years of experience working in _____, Casey really isn't obligated to ______' reasoning as well, unless someone can raise his hands and claim experience in working in a crowdfunding industry, which I highly doubt since its still such a novelty. If LHL's vision is just to be a one-hit-wonder contented with mediocrity, then I say its fair game and anything goes. But if you're a subsidiary of a reputed company, presenting a fantastic mission and vision for the future, then don't set low standards and then point your backers towards it in your defence. That's fundamentally hiding behind the veneer of crowdfunding and using grey area to give the excuse of saying whatever which pleases. Bottom line is, some of the things posted on here have been grossly unprofessional, and downright condescending at worst.
 
6) Casey. That said, give this guy a break. He's not the chief engineer, and he's not the marketing lead. If I were in his shoes I'd be mightily stressed up as well, hence I can somewhat empathize with him. He's not in any position to directly influence how things actually run or progress, but yet he's the one taking the brunt of the apocalypse. He's definitely got pride in what he does and in the company he works for, so it's going to hurt when someone tramples upon it. I can understand that backers have the right to be apoplectic, but he's not someone to take our frustrations out upon. I think we still need to cut him some slack. Ultimately I don't really bother with how he replies or what he replies. I care about the webdesigners solving the problem of surveys, marketing personnel curbing down on enthusiasm, designers and engineers delivering on expectations.
 
Mar 19, 2015 at 3:43 AM Post #1,663 of 5,933
I find it rather amusing that people are perfectly happy reading and joining in on all kinds of attacks on LH Labs and its employees while at the same time expecting perfection and utter courtesy from them.

You stupid f@+$#&!ng worthless piece of $#!+ SOB, give me an accurate and precise answer RIGHT NOW and be f+&%@(*g polite about it or I'll rip you ANOTHER one!

Yeah, makes sense to me. :-D

Oh, yes, the wide release BETA survey does still have some issues, but they are getting fixed quickly. Almost everything of mine was there and selectable as a final product. I'll track it for the next week and by then most of the issues should be fixed.

J.P.
 
Mar 19, 2015 at 5:21 AM Post #1,665 of 5,933
I find it rather amusing that people are perfectly happy reading and joining in on all kinds of attacks on LH Labs and its employees while at the same time expecting perfection and utter courtesy from them.

You stupid f@+$#&!ng worthless piece of $#!+ SOB, give me an accurate and precise answer RIGHT NOW and be f+&%@(*g polite about it or I'll rip you ANOTHER one!

Yeah, makes sense to me. :-D

Oh, yes, the wide release BETA survey does still have some issues, but they are getting fixed quickly. Almost everything of mine was there and selectable as a final product. I'll track it for the next week and by then most of the issues should be fixed.

J.P.

 
I fully agree with the need for some sanity on here, but those are very inaccurately extreme statements you are making.
 

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