[doublea71]

  Well, while we are counting up reneged offers...
 
During the Wave campaign Gavin put up a perk for a Geek Out plus invite to a fancy "Super Secret Release Party" in SF.  I didn't really need the GO, but pledged because the price was about the same as a night out in the city with good food and drinks.
 
As the date comes up....nothing, no communication of any kind.  Just a few nights before I asked about it in the IGG comment,  Gavin simply replies something like, "oh yeah, we postponed that...."  And of course nothing happened after that.
 
So, now that I think about it....this is a pretty clear case of IGG non-delivery/fraud.  Maybe I can use that as a springboard to get my Wave refunded too.  In his campaign fever, Gavin was clearly willing to make up anything that sounded good to bring more money into the campaign.  At least in the instance cited above, there is no doubt an ethics line was crossed. 

Anybody who gives him the benefit of the doubt at this point has a mental illness or two. That is despicable behavior. Best of luck, Audioengine - you've got your hands full!

 

[maczh2002]

 
Anybody who gives him the benefit of the doubt at this point has a mental illness or two. That is despicable behavior. Best of luck, Audioengine - you've got your hands full!

agreed. don't know how this guy sleeps at night. probably doesn't have a conscience.

 

[Ike1985]

 
agreed. don't know how this guy sleeps at night. probably doesn't have a conscience.

 
He sleeps like a baby, psychopaths and sociopaths can't empathize with others so they feel nothing.  I'm sure he feels great sleeping on that pile of everyone's money.

 

[warrior1975]

That's significant money he took from people, I read $1.6 mil was raised. I've been burnt by bad business deals, with little to no recourse. Yes you can sue, but suing a worthless corporation is throwing good money after bad. Not sure if this is a similar situation, if LH Labs has assets or not. Just feel terrible for you all.

A perk for a party? Really? Just terrible. Some people are just rotten. I don't know what their true intention was, maybe they just promised more than they could deliver and have tried, but failed. They should have been honest regardless.

 

[doctorjazz]

I'm still hoping we'll get a great DAP (though I'm not holding my breath in the meantime, seems it could still be a good while)...nobody has declared a default or anything like that that I know of...

 

[doublea71]

They should prove to us that they have the financial wherewithal to deliver the Wave.

 

[vwinter]

They should prove to us that they have the financial wherewithal to deliver the Wave.

Sounds nice on the surface but of everything I've read on this thread, this one has the lowest chance of happening lol. What would you like to have them show us, bank statements, revolving lines of credit, investor agreements showing committed capital, a fixed asset listing, cash flows for the trailing 12 months, pictures of a pile of gold bars?

Not being an *ss, just realistic.

[rule]

I've been reading the thread and the updates Larry has been posting. I don't even want to touch Gavin's response. It was so inappropriate to the situation that it made me cringe. Given what Larry has been sharing, I feel like we'll likely see something by Q4. What that something will be...

They have a few big pieces left, but nothing unsalvageable with a little resourcefulness.

I still stand by my opinion that a big chunk of the project went south when they decided to design the OS and UI from scratch. They're not a software company and likely don't have the appropriate resources to address the multitude of issues that come with doing that. There also seems to be issue with understanding where bottlenecks will lie, be it internal, or supplier, or a combination of both, and how to effectively approach such roadblocks, which has caused significant delays, such as the chassis design vs internal components iterations.

I feel for them, I do. I think Larry is trying to set things on a better path, but I don't know if he can control the whole ship both effectively and efficiently. This thing has become a beast. As someone who has missed deadlines to deliver a quality product, I get where he's coming from. But at some point, unfortunately, unless you are appropriately equipped to handle the issue(s) at hand in the timeframe you have, sacrifices have to be made. They've been treating this like a project, rather than a business product, which I think is part of the issue.

[rule]

Also, that "super secret" release party perk thing is disturbing.

That should be dealt with right now with either full refunds or communications as to what the plan is to have this party and partial refunds. I don't think it's a priority and unless they have individuals who have literally nothing to do right now with getting people the products they paid for, they should just have a customer service person initiate full refunds for that perk and send out an apology email to those individuals.

 

[jdog]

From all we know now, I really believe that LH Labs should have waited until about now to even open up the Geek Wave for a crowd-funding campaign... that is, if they were going to pursue this project in an honest and ethical way.  I can understand that they might have had very limited financial resources at the time, and I can understand that they may have felt that a TOTL DAP was the ticket they needed for their company to increase sales to the general population.  I get all that.  But they should not have used all of us like they have so far...  I understand that "salesmanship" is vital for a small company, but Gavin's outright deception and fraudulent advertising for the Geek Wave "story" was clearly unethical.  That may be the reality of the business world that he floats around in, but I'm sure glad I don't have to work with him or his ilk....  I am convinced that very few of us (if any) would have invested in the Geek Wave had they admitted from the very beginning that this was an absolute/complete "start from ground zero project" with no finite dead line for completion.  Yet, this is what we have all come to realize in the 19+ months since the campaign officially closed.  The "canceled" after-party was our first real clue that LH Labs was not going to live up to their promises or our expectations.  I think the second real clue was the turd they pandered as the Geek Verb IEM.  I'm amazed that we are still waiting on the Geek Verb X-IEM (ordered in 1/15) which I'm hoping is not just an over-priced knock- off of an existing IEM already available on Aliexpress...  All the missed delivery dates have just re-inforced, what we all know now.  I really wonder if LH Labs has any future plans for crowd-funded projects... To echo doublea71's sentiments, anyone who invests in any more of LH Labs products before they can be bought today/delivered straight away has got to have a mental illness or two... 

 

[doublea71]

Sounds nice on the surface but of everything I've read on this thread, this one has the lowest chance of happening lol. What would you like to have them show us, bank statements, revolving lines of credit, investor agreements showing committed capital, a fixed asset listing, cash flows for the trailing 12 months, pictures of a pile of gold bars?

Not being an *ss, just realistic.

---

I've been reading the thread and the updates Larry has been posting. I don't even want to touch Gavin's response. It was so inappropriate to the situation that it made me cringe. Given what Larry has been sharing, I feel like we'll likely see something by Q4. What that something will be...

They have a few big pieces left, but nothing unsalvageable with a little resourcefulness.

I still stand by my opinion that a big chunk of the project went south when they decided to design the OS and UI from scratch. They're not a software company and likely don't have the appropriate resources to address the multitude of issues that come with doing that. There also seems to be issue with understanding where bottlenecks will lie, be it internal, or supplier, or a combination of both, and how to effectively approach such roadblocks, which has caused significant delays, such as the chassis design vs internal components iterations.

I feel for them, I do. I think Larry is trying to set things on a better path, but I don't know if he can control the whole ship both effectively and efficiently. This thing has become a beast. As someone who has missed deadlines to deliver a quality product, I get where he's coming from. But at some point, unfortunately, unless you are appropriately equipped to handle the issue(s) at hand in the timeframe you have, sacrifices have to be made. They've been treating this like a project, rather than a business product, which I think is part of the issue.

---

Also, that "super secret" release party perk thing is disturbing.

That should be dealt with right now with either full refunds or communications as to what the plan is to have this party and partial refunds. I don't think it's a priority and unless they have individuals who have literally nothing to do right now with getting people the products they paid for, they should just have a customer service person initiate full refunds for that perk and send out an apology email to those individuals.

I agree - there's no way this would ever happen. Wishful thinking, ravings of a backer on the warpath...

 

[Lookin4Treble]

  They should prove to us that they have the financial wherewithal to deliver the Wave.

 
Yow!  I hadn't considered the possibility that LHL already went through the crowd funding money, and thus becomes short on cash to complete the Wave.  Yet another strike against the crowdfunding model -- risk of default increases the longer a project goes from funded to delivered. 

 

[vwinter]

I agree - there's no way this would ever happen. Wishful thinking, ravings of a backer on the warpath...

It's actually interesting because significant loan agreements and equity investments usually require audited financials at least once a year. We're technically investors with a fully unsecured funding. There's no accountability. The risk and reward model of crowdfunding has everything to do with personal gratification. Not that we'd want a not insignificant portion of the funding to go to audit fees, but it might not be a bad idea for large campaigns which are expected to deliver more than a year out.

The highest success rate on crowdfunding seems to be already established businesses just having access to capital to release a product, like a book publisher who wants to license content but doesn't really have the lender/investor in a strict business case sense. The process is all in place, they just need the money to turn it on. It's almost like your business case research is providing you direct funding. Kind of interesting the more you think about it.

Anyway, way off topic. Now where's that pitchfork...

 

[greenkiwi]

I don't know the exact details, but I believe that both indiegogo and kickstarter hand out the cash in stages. For just this reason. Answering all these questions from every backer isn't really tenable... So they are our proxies.

Now there might be some differences between them... And with the in demand stages.

At this point,i accept that it's delayed... And just want them to complete a solid product. And I think that they will.

 

[greenkiwi]

On a separate note, they said that the UI was going to be web based? If so, it would be cool if they released the api and others could play with the ui.

Also if it is, they could release a test version that we could play with on our iPhones and Android devices and provide feedback sooner

 

[doctorjazz]

There is product for sale on Amazon and other stores, there is other stuff being released, while I agree the backers should have been taken care of first, it doesn't sound like a company out of cash to me...

 

[zenpunk]

My feeling is the opposite. Every decision this company has taken so far suggest desperate attempts to generate some cash flow, going as far as deceiving backers with non-existing or rip-off offers such as the Verbs. And now, one of the founder had to jump ship to keep his family fed...
A while ago many people were concerned that their business model wouldn't be sustainable. Sadly, with all the bad publicity they have now attracted, easy source of money such as crowdfunding is quickly drying out and they still have so many products to deliver to backers...
Personally, I believe the writing has been on the wall for quite some time. I would love to been proven wrong because so many people are still waiting for their products and invested quite a bit of money.