Light Harmonic Geek Wave

[mscott58]

  We haven't made a final decision on the chassis material for Geek Wave.  My comment in regards to resin were about the Geek Out 2 prototype.  
 
We're working on a variety of design and material choices for the Geek Wave and will go with whatever our team feels provides the best form and function.  

Actually, in thinking about it they could do some really interesting things in "resin" (I'll call it engineered plastic - I used to make and sell the stuff!) especially if they 3D printed it. 
 
Remember the Alpha Dogs? Those shells are 3D printed and look and function very well (and I think the Ether also uses some of the similar technology). With the 3D approach Dan could do things he never could have with standard injection molding techniques, especially at lower production numbers. The GO2 is 3D printed and the design is pretty radical. 
 
And you can 3D print many different types of resins/plastics, some of which are quite durable. Finally plastic is an insulator, not a conductor (unless you load it up with silver or carbon or such) so maybe they could use it in conjunction with some type of heat dissipation technology? 
 
Sorry, just some ramblings of a former ChemE who used to play with these materials many moons ago...
 
Cheers 

 

[gikigill]

How about a clear resin with a titanium or carbon fiber back as I have backed the Titanium enclosure.

Would be great to see all the bits of the Wave.

 

[miceblue]

Psh, traditional 3D printing is just 2D printing over and over again in multiple layers.

Now this is real 3D printing. : D
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2015/03/16/this-new-technology-blows-3d-printing-out-of-the-water-literally/

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74BjdHDJeE0[/video]

 

[doctorjazz]

This is reminding me of the thread on the LH site dedicated to suggestions on the size and other details of the Wave glass screen. That still has posts, which obviously are not having any effect on the LH team at this point (if it ever did...I don't recall many posts there in favor of a non touch glass screen). It's now likely mostly or all settled in the major parameters, with some details still being worked out.

 

[mscott58]

Psh, traditional 3D printing is just 2D printing over and over again in multiple layers.

Now this is real 3D printing. : D
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2015/03/16/this-new-technology-blows-3d-printing-out-of-the-water-literally/

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74BjdHDJeE0[/video]

Now that is seriously cool! And they (not surprisingly) have some major players invested in them. Thanks for sharing.

 

[MikeyFresh]

Heard from LHL for a (hopefully) definitive answer:

"There will be REAL carbon fiber and REAL titanium" and "Maybe skin wasn't the best word to use."

Cheers

I'm confused then, about CH's post indicating his mention of resin was concerning the GeekOut2, and not the Wave.
 
Per my mention in post # 1775, the $555,000 stretch goal for the Wave campaign was an aluminum chassis for both the X128, and XD128. They can't change that to some cheap resin enclosure now or that would be a complete renege, amounting to a bait and switch marketing tactic.

 

[mscott58]

I'm confused then, about CH's post indicating his mention of resin was concerning the GeekOut2, and not the Wave.

Per my mention in post # 1775, the $555,000 stretch goal for the Wave campaign was an aluminum chassis for both the X128, and XD128. They can't change that to some cheap resin enclosure now or that would be a complete renege, amounting to a bait and switch marketing tactic.

Mikey - The way I'm seeing it is that they were offering a move to an upgraded enclosure design, and that the aluminum design (the picture of which was very basic) was how they were viewing it then.

Fast forward to today and they actually have two professional designers on staff and those two are working to find a case solution that will be the best for the overall needs of the Wave. This is non-trivial as the case needs to do many things beyond just look good, it has to handle/control the operating temperature, allow for the battery to be removable, incorporate the screen, buttons, sensors, ports, etc. and also look good and be fairly rugged. And also it can't take forever to manufacture, and has to allow for the SE models to incorporate the CFB and Ti.

IMHO it's not bait and switch, it's the pragmatic reality of making sure the design actually works and can be made.

Cheers

 

[MikeyFresh]

Mikey - The way I'm seeing it is that they were offering a move to an upgraded enclosure design, and that the aluminum design (the picture of which was very basic) was how they were viewing it then.

Fast forward to today and they actually have two professional designers on staff and those two are working to find a case solution that will be the best for the overall needs of the Wave. This is non-trivial as the case needs to do many things beyond just look good, it has to handle/control the operating temperature, allow for the battery to be removable, incorporate the screen, buttons, sensors, ports, etc. and also look good and be fairly rugged. And also it can't take forever to manufacture, and has to allow for the SE models to incorporate the CFB and Ti.

IMHO it's not bait and switch, it's the pragmatic reality of making sure the design actually works and can be made.

Cheers

 
They can't just walk away from a stretch goal obligation and produce something far cheaper (plastic) and not be reneging.
 
Thats a bait & switch, and they tried the same BS with the Vi DAC but the members called them out, until Larry announced they would honor the T6061 milled enclosure.
 
Blaming a heat/operating temperature issue isn't being honest at all, resin is as you said, an insulator, while aluminum would dissipate heat.
 
This is already taking forever to manufacture, I can hardly believe with no enclosure finalized that LH Labs is sticking to their July shipping date.
 
I for one don't want a cheap plastic chassis as a way to come closer to that pie in the sky ship date. They promised the X128 and XD128 would have an aluminum enclosure, it's not our problem that they offered so many different configurations of the Wave and thus now have a problem with not being able to use the same enclosure for all.
 
Plastic is cheap, why would any of us at this point want to help chop LH Lab's costs, they've had our money for a year or more by the time these units ship.
 
June 29, 2014 IGG Update:
 
 
$555,555 Stretch Goal Obliterated!

Great news!  We've easily surpassed our $555,555 stretch goal!  Now everyone will get a new, improved enclosure for their Geek Wave.  And X 128 and XD 128 backers are going to get that beautiful aluminum enclosure.  Woohoo!

 

[mscott58]

They can't just walk away from a stretch goal obligation and produce something far cheaper (plastic) and not be reneging.

Thats a bait & switch, and they tried the same BS with the Vi DAC but the members called them out, until Larry announced they would honor the T6061 milled enclosure.

Blaming a heat/operating temperature issue isn't being honest at all, resin is as you said, an insulator, while aluminum would dissipate heat.

This is already taking forever to manufacture, I can hardly believe with no enclosure finalized that LH Labs is sticking to their July shipping date.

I for one don't want a cheap plastic chassis as a way to come closer to that pie in the sky ship date. They promised the X128 and XD128 would have an aluminum enclosure, it's not our problem that they offered so many different configurations of the Wave and thus now have a problem with not being able to use the same enclosure for all.

Plastic is cheap, why would any of us at this point want to help chop LH Lab's costs, they've had our money for a year or more by the time these units ship.

June 29, 2014 IGG Update:


$555,555 Stretch Goal Obliterated!



Great news!  We've easily surpassed our $555,555 stretch goal!  Now everyone will get a new, improved enclosure for their Geek Wave.  And X 128 and XD 128 backers are going to get that beautiful aluminum enclosure.  Woohoo!

Understand your concerns and share parts of them, but one point of clarification. Many engineering plastics are actually more expensive than aluminum. There's a bunch of variables that have to be considered and decisions to be made, and I hope that LHL comes out with a great answer.

 

[doublea71]

What are the odds this ships next year?

 

[doublea71]

I no longer care about the aluminum casing (especially in light of the amp design they're going to be using), but it is a shame that it will not have a touchscreen. With these design changes, it will have to be the best-sounding player bar none if they are going to really impress the market imo. I get the feeling this thing has become the proverbial albatross around their necks.

 

[LargoCantabile]

I have researched FOUR Heat Dissipating possibilities for GEEK WAVE LH LABS in 30 minutes. Have they done their homework?????????????????????????? I am sure there is a better solution than they have at present. We backers can wait for a better solution rather than a cheap quick fix.
 

• This as I see it is the problem now for Geek Wave:

“most materials with good thermal conductivity conduct electricity as well. Vice versa, almost every electrical isolation material translates into a thermal barrier.”
 
So you need another material:
“Ceramics, e.g. Rubalit (Al2O3) or Alunit (AlN), combine two crucial characteristics: they are electrically isolating and thermally conductive.
Rubalit has a lower, Alunit a slightly higher conductivity than aluminium. On the other hand, Rubalit is less expensive than Alunit.
 

• Another product mentioned is Cerac (see quote below):

“Lighter, more compact, faster and more sophisticated
functions, are required of products in the field of electrical
and electronic devices in recent years. In order to respond
to such needs, further densification is taking place on
every level, including semiconductor chips, substrate
packaging and device mounting. Unfortunately, such
densification brought about an increase in heat generation
and the localized concentration of heat, which is causing
even more difficulty in terms of coping with heat.
Further, with the conversion of products into
household appliances and their personalization as well as
mobilization, demand for products with a better
appearance and less noise is on the rise. Very strict
limitations are being imposed on the designers, as they
deal with heat measures by hermetically sealing products,
quietening cooling fans or implementing heat measures
without cooling fans, in order to respond to such needs.
In such circumstances, there are cases when
conventional “heat conduction” heat dissipation products
(such as heat sinks) and “heat convection” heat
dissipation products (such as cooling fans) can no longer
offer any solution.
This paper will introduce the new innovative product,
“Stick-it Flexible” made of Cerac α
 
 

• Also:

Moving heat away from the transistor could allow for higher performance and reduce the need for cooling in any application where heat buildup is detrimental to product function (which is to say, most of them). Boron has also earned scrutiny in recent years thanks to the way it partners up with graphene. As shown in the image at the top of the story, boron nitride and graphene can be grown side by side, creating nanowires of graphene that are isolated by the boron.
 
 

• Also see about the heat conductivity ir dissipating ability of CARBON FIBRE with nano tubes

“Thermal Conductivity of Carbon Fiber, and other Carbon Based Materials”
At http://www.christinedemer

 

[LargoCantabile]

Maybe they should hire this guy?

 
see his 2013 thesis:
Enhanced Heat Transfer in Composite Materials
at
https://etd.ohiolink.edu/!etd.send_file?accession=ohiou1368105955&disposition=inline

 

[LargoCantabile]

Carbon Fiber Technology Dissipates Heat
at Least Twice as Efficiently as Aluminum
Heat is certainly the enemy of electronics, but that’s not the only instance where shedding heat is important. From brake shoes to internal combustion engines to electricity transmission to orbital habitats, thermal management is a prime goal of much of engineering. Fans, heat sinks, and radiators all a..empt to move heat from someplace where it’s not wanted to someplace where it is. Aluminum is a favored material for heat transfer. Aluminum conducts thermal energy at 218 Wa..s per meter-Kelvin (W/m-k), a metric measure of heat transfer.
But if microprocessors operated at 30GHz instead of their current maximum around 3GHz, heat transfer technology would be faced with dumping the heat output from a chip that would be—proportionately—the equivalent of a nuclear power plant. Clearly, new heat dissipation technologies are needed or speed advances will be blocked.
New Thermal Transfer Paradigm
Scientists at ThermoComposite have devised an anisotropic carbon-fiber-based heat transfer technology that acts like a fiberoptic system for heat. Anisotropic means that a material has different physical properties in different directions—in this case, the carbon fibers transfer heat away from the source along the direction of the fibers but only minimally in a direction transverse to the fiber direction. Unlike an aluminum heat sink, which radiates from all surfaces and in all directions, the carbon fiber heat sinks developed by ThermoComposite radiate from the cross-sectional face of the fibers. That area of that face can be adjusted by varying the fin height, fin angle, and fiber volume of the heat sinks or other articles manufactured from the materials. ThermoComposite materials have demonstrated heat transfer at 432 W/m-k—twice the rate of aluminum heat sinks—and should be able to transfer heat at 1100-1700 W/m-k.
The technology makes possible heat transfer and dissipation without fans or radiators, and their a..endant complexity. Patent protection is broad.
While the applications to electronics alone are stunning, the ThermoComposite technology also makes possible new conceptual ways of handling thermal energy, such as a flexible thermal wiring harness using thermal plugs and connectors, or thermal concentrators that bring heat streams from a wide area together at a single point. Stronger, stiffer, and dimensionally stable material means much be..er machinability. Conventional machine tools and methodologies can generate smaller, much finer thermal article, one example being higher pin-fin densities per area.
Light weight, low density, and high strength carbon fiber heat dissipation technologies can offer cost-competitive new design opportunities for thermal management.
Read more about this technology on the yet2.com marketplace.
Register with yet2.com now to keep current on new technologies and needs as they appear.
tow0033192.pdf 27 June 2004

 

[miceblue]

Dude, formatting. Pls. K thx bai.