[Sauntere]

This is one of the more interesting threads on Headfi to me.
 
I really like Torq's approach and attitude.
 
I am following along avidly since i am looking for a DAC and the Yggdrasil is in consideration but is by no means my limit in terms of $ spent.
 
Really looking forward to the impressions and comparisons as they come in.
 
There is practically zero chance of me doing any in home listening before buying (which is really dangerous) because the local stores are loath to allow that sort of thing.
They would rather i transport my nearly 80 kilo stand mounts to their store to gain impressions which is ridiculous since obviously my room will be completely different.
 
Anyway... nice thread. 

 

[lukeap69]

Very interested to know the sub-1k DAC that beats the 4k one.

 

[wahsmoh]

It's been quite a few years since I compared the DCS and MSB offerings but I ended up choosing an MSB Platinum DAC III at the time. DCS was overly sterile sounding to my ears. The MSB was equally resolving but much more engaging and musical. I still use it in my main system.

I am temporarily using it in my headphone rig that I am in the process of upgrading and it sounds great there too. I have a Yggy on order. I am interested to hear how the Yggy sounds in comparison.

That's a nice DAC. I always wondered about MSB's technical measurements. Their Power DAC from nearly 10 years ago and was their latest "budget" DAC claimed to have 136dB of dynamic range. Is that possible? The Yggdrasil measures around 122dB of dynamic range which is already really good.. so how can their Power DAC have more dynamic range than the latest MSB Analog which supposedly measures 20.8 effective bits or 127dB of dynamic range? I hate to get caught up in measurements but their numbers seem too high or off unless their technology is really golden.
 
http://www.msbtech.com/products/gold4.php
 
I saw a Power DAC sell for less than $1500 a few weeks ago. I wonder if it is worth buying one.

 

[Torq]

Very interested to know the sub-1k DAC that beats the 4k one.

 
It was a combined DAC/amp against a combined DAC/amp, not a pure DAC comparison in that case.
 
A bit too much badge going on with the 4K one, I feel.
 
Details will wait though, as I've mentioned previously.

 

[mtruong34]

A bit too much badge going on with the 4K one,

What does "too much badge" mean? Sorry not familiar with that term.

 

[Torq]

What does "too much badge" mean? Sorry not familiar with that term.

 
It is a reference to the manufacturer/brand ... i.e. their "badge".
 
In other words, the "badge" is a prominent "feature" that you wind up paying excessively for despite the item in question lacking in performance pursuant to its price. 
 
(Another variation of the term, in automotive circles, at least in the UK, "badge engineering" is essentially "re-badging".  That's different to how I'm using the term here, however.)

 

[mtruong34]

Gotcha. Thanks.

 

[rgs9200m]

In some conversations with Metrum Pavane owners who heard the Yggy, I have been told the Pavane seems more "natural" or something similar. I just thought I would toss that in FWIW. I can't say personally as I have not heard them. 
One thing I have been told is that the Pavane is not as picky about being turned on all the time, which I think could be an operational bonus for some.

 

[prot]

Torq
People 'disagree' about everything in audio and no matter how/when you post your impressions there'll be all sorts of funky comments. I wont care so much about that.

 

[Torq]

@Torq
People 'disagree' about everything in audio and no matter how/when you post your impressions there'll be all sorts of funky comments. I wont care so much about that.

Yes, they certainly do, and I'm sure there will.
 
I'm sure it'll stir the pot enough when I do post my impressions, as that's how such things tend to go; I've no reason to stir it early and have people get all riled up for something that simply shouldn't matter to anyone but me.  After all, I'm just looking for suggestions for stuff to audition that I might not have been aware of - what I decide purchase after I'm done listening to the stuff I do audition has precisely zero effect on anyone else.
 
But there will, no doubt, be the usual questioning of my hearing, precisely how I had it configured, how many hours of burn-in it had, what cables I used, what the weather was, what I had for dinner, and what color knickers I'm wearing (for the humor impaired - I don't wear knickers; I'm a guy).
 
Though while I think about it ... regarding "burn in" ...
 
Stuff will get auditioned as it is.  I have no practical way to know if/how/for how long something is burned in (my level of trust in what someone wanting to sell me something says, when it's not independently verifiable, is not particularly high).  If the effects of burn-in are so significant that they mean DAC "A" beats DAC "B" unless DAC "B" has had 200 hours of play, that's on the manufacturer to sort out.
 
As a result, I do not, and will not, do "live" burn-in.  That means I will NOT listen to something during a "burn in" period.  If it needs 200 hours of run time to sound its best then it can have that without me listening.  I want to compare how these things sound - not recondition myself to how they sound over a couple of weeks of listening and fall foul of psychoacoustic adaptation vs. something just sounding good in a direct comparison to something else.
 
Anyway, any device-specific impressions/thoughts/comparisons will come when I'm done listening and I've put my money where my mouth is and made a purchase.  I may, ahead of that, share some of the things I've found (for example if I suddenly get converted to the camp that says "DSD is the best", rather than my current position of DSD and PCM both being excellent, neither being perfect, and both addressing different issues while having their own, again different, issues).
 
Otherwise, I'll leave it to the end and then I can, to the extent that the thread goes to hell, ignore it all more easily.

 

[prot]

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/absolute-top-tier-dac-for-standard-res-redbook-cd
That guy ran a very similar thread, maybe you can find some tips in there.

And in case you are taking special wishes . I dont care a bit about stuff like cables & burnin and would vote for not even mentioning those things. And I'd like to see some serious a/b comparisons .. preferably of the blind kind.

Good luck!

 

[Torq]

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/absolute-top-tier-dac-for-standard-res-redbook-cd
That guy ran a very similar thread, maybe you can find some tips in there.

And in case you are taking special wishes

. I dont care a bit about stuff like cables & burnin and would vote for not even mentioning those things. And I'd like to see some serious a/b comparisons .. preferably of the blind kind.

Good luck!

 
That was an interesting thread.
 
Other than normalizing cables as much as possible, I've no plan to comment on them.  And, as I've said, burn-in issues are up to the manufacturer ... whatever I listen to will be evaluated based on how it sounds then and there.  If someone claims it needs more burn-in to sound its best, then they'll need to have taken care of that before I get there as there is no scenario in which I'm buying anything that didn't impress at the audition based on some promise that it'll "dramatically improve" over time.  I don't buy on "futures" or "promises"!
 
So no, no worries there, those things are not going to be factors.
 
While my comparisons will be fairly serious, and wherever possible they'll be done blind, I'm not guaranteeing any objectivity (I've previously stated my biases) whatsoever and I wouldn't bet that that my written thoughts/impressions on any one DAC or comparison between two units will be more than fairly terse and ribald, unless there's something particularly interesting about them or dramatic in their performance (or they're excessively silly in some way).  When I've done major auditions for components before, mostly for my speaker systems, some items have been very rapidly dismissed ... and they don't, consequently, warrant a lot of commentary.
 
If you're expecting pages, or even paragraphs, of prose on the units that I dismiss quickly then you'll be disappointed.  The more interesting stuff will get more of a write-up.  

 

[Baldr]

Posted in another thread but at least minmally relevant here:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/784471/what-a-long-strange-trip-its-been-robert-hunter/615#post_12574717

 

[artur9]

   
While my comparisons will be fairly serious, and wherever possible they'll be done blind, I'm not guaranteeing any objectivity (I've previously stated my biases) whatsoever and I wouldn't bet that that my written thoughts/impressions on any one DAC or comparison between two units will be more than fairly terse and ribald, unless there's something particularly interesting about them or dramatic in their performance (or they're excessively silly in some way). 

Ribald would be fun but I hope you're not too terse.  Things like "it was *****" isn't very helpful while "it sounded like a swarm of flies on a pile of schite" at least implies that it buzzed like a sonavagun.
 
thanks again for documenting your experiences!

 

[Torq]

  Posted in another thread but at least minmally relevant here:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/784471/what-a-long-strange-trip-its-been-robert-hunter/615#post_12574717

 
Glad to hear that you're back in the fray!
 
And I'd say it's much more than minimally relevant!
 
As an engineer myself, both software and hardware (though not currently in the audio space) I particularly appreciate smart choices and common sense in engineering (even if my purchase decisions will ultimately ignore almost all of that and go with what I find the most enjoyable to listen to).  Beyond the amazing, engaging and totally engrossing results I get with my Yggdrasil, that it does what it does so comparatively inexpensively really puts the icing on the cake.
 
When I'm comparing it to other DACs, and so far it has bested everything I've heard, with the conscious awareness that it costs half, to a third, of what it would if it was sold through the typical distributor/dealer channels, it still makes me chuckle to think of what an absolute bargain Yggdrasil is.  So, it's not really a surprise when I find it more than competitive with the $6000 stuff I've heard, that it beats my $9000 Linn (which, admittedly also has a streamer, ADCs, phono-stage, room and speaker correction and a pre-amp in it etc.), or that it made short work of another $9000 DAC that I listened to a few weeks ago.