[EElegances]

I think Larry plans to build Source SE before all others. Is that true with each product? It must take days to build each SE unit. As far as I can tell Larry already does most (or all) of design, purchasing, and building (plus lots of marketing, going to shows, traveling to Asia, etc., etc.). At this rate it seems it will take more years to fulfill any one of his Gogo projects. Taking time on SE builds while others wait just doesn't seem right anymore. ...... Do we even know if LHL has secured the chassis for any of the SE products?

 

[mtruong34]

I think Larry plans to build Source SE before all others. Is that true with each product? It must take days to build each SE unit. As far as I can tell Larry already does most (or all) of design, purchasing, and building (plus lots of marketing, going to shows, traveling to Asia, etc., etc.). At this rate it seems it will take more years to fulfill any of one of his Gogo projects. Taking time on SE while others wait just doesn't seem right anymore. ...... Do we even know if LHL has secured the chassis for any of the SE products?

Historically, the SE versions of other products were done at or near the end. Probably because they require better parts and more hands on magic by the main man Larry himself (if you believe that).

 

[doctorjazz]

Well, with nothing out, and SE at the end of the line, got a bit to go I'd guess...

 

[2MnyToys]

I assume everyone got the email from LH Labs today but in case you didn't:
 
Dear Vi backers,
Few important updates here. 
1) We already found second good CNC factory that will start their first production in next two week. We believe their effort will speed up the chassis production and we could start pick up more speed from 3rd week of April. 
 
2) Since we are about to start sending Vi Tube DAC. Please make sure you update your shipping address in our market space software platform. And we are truly truly want to say thank you for your patience. Our target is not too aggressive in the first few weeks. And we should be able to pick up the speed on May for 20 ~ 25 ship out per month. 
 
3) We are almost about to finish up a new firmware  for both Solid State Vi DAC and Tube Vi DAC. Every new delivery Vi DAC from third week of April will directly have that. And every current owner of Vi DAC could direct use DFU on our Windows driver to get FREE upgrade as well. The new features including:

1. LH digital mode/digital filter version 2.0 - In this version, we enhance the calculation with more sophisticated algorithm from the similar and latest firmware we developed for DaVinci DAC MK2. Now we will use the same algorithm in your Vi DAC firmware. Result? We would like you to find that out. How Femto Time Mode 2.0 sound better than original!!
2. We will add DSD256 on DoP (DSD over PCM) protocol. So your Mac now finally could enjoy the DSD256 music too!
3. We enhance the USB sampling buffer software code more so on DSD playback and PCM playback over 192K will benefit!

 
We commit to keep your Vi DAC sounds the best and continue the support through firmware update. The technology we developed for good products will also benefit back for our Vi DAC owners. 
Thanks!
 
 
I do get a kick out of, "We already found second good CNC factory".  ALREADY?!
 

 

[bernardperu]

Hello everyone, I have started this thread http://www.head-fi.org/t/842899/vi-dac-by-lh-labs after not receiving my LH Labs products for 2.5 Years. 
 
I talked to the owner Larry Ho a couple of times and he keeps asking me to be patient. It is my guess that they are using our money to bankroll new products and pay for advertisement.
 
Feel free to contribute to the thread I started and add content to it. The more content we manage the put out in the cyberspace, the more likely they are to deliver our products (and stop using our money for other things).
 
Thank you!

 

[MikeyFresh]

More total BS and yet another non-"update" with rehashed information that are stories so old and false, the author has already forgotten they've been told before.
 
In May 20-25 units per month?
 
That BS was regurgitated from an update given in March 2016, when it was said that new tooling was produced to help stabilize the chassis during fabrication, itself a BS story given any competent metal shop has a design engineer on hand that evaluates what tooling will be necessary for any given job. That's not some big guessing game that takes years to sort out, the tooling required is part of the process by which the job is price quoted by the metal shop in the first place.
 
"We already found second good CNC factory"... really?
 
So after 2 years you've now selected another machine shop since the first one produced how many units in those 24 months? Did the first shop ever send you anything but samples? Did you ever actually place a real production order with that shop and if so, in what quantity?
 
New firmware?
 
Laughable considering there is nobody that can even evaluate or give bug reports on the old firmware, there are no appreciable amount of Vi DAC end users in the field with a variety of system configurations that can report back to LH Labs on various needs for firmware fixes. Even if there were, exactly how many people would benefit from this "support" and the "new features"? So valuable to us backers.
 
"Almost about to finish up" the new firmware? Anyone want to take bets on when that actually happens? No of course not, but then again that's moot, it could be finished this afternoon, it doesn't matter when no one actually has a Vi DAC to apply the firmware upgrade to.
 
Another really solid update Larry, BIG news all the way around, WOW what progress!
 
Do you really think your customers are that stupid, or that you are somehow 6 or 7 times as smart as everyone else such that it's so damn easy to just lie repeatedly and pull the wool over everyone's eyes and no one even knows that's what you are doing?
 
Disgraceful.

 

[doctorjazz]

 

[jsiegel14072]

I was trying to figure out?
about 1000 units were sold if you look at the campaign total.
 
how many were SS and how many were shipped?
How many were Tube and how many were shipped.
 
If we take worst case 1000 units at 25/month (when they get to that capacity of one per day) would leave only 40 more months to go

 

[doctorjazz]

Weren't some Solid State units shipped already?
The tube ones still not as far as I know.
I'm in for the Vi Tube DAC Super-Special upgraded edition (and the Wave; and the Source).
Looking like a pretty bad investment...

 

[MikeyFresh]

  I was trying to figure out?
about 1000 units were sold if you look at the campaign total.
 
how many were SS and how many were shipped?
How many were Tube and how many were shipped.
 
If we take worst case 1000 units at 25/month (when they get to that capacity of one per day) would leave only 40 more months to go

I don't think that's the number, that's likely the total number of campaign pledges including all perks/add-ons.
 
So for instance my Vi Dac Tube has 7 different IGG pledges when you consider the perk/options that were added, so 1 unit = 7 IGG campaign contributions in my case.
 
As I recall it was fewer than 500 total units, as that was a threshold by which some additional perk or add-on would have automatically kicked in for free had that number been met, but in the end it fell short of that, somewhere in the 400 unit total range I believe.
 
It's been so damn long, it's sadly now impossible to remember all of those details but they are probably stated somewhere way back in this thread.

 

[jsiegel14072]

 
I don't think that's the number, that's likely the total number of campaign pledges including all perks/add-ons.
 
So for instance my Vi Dac Tube has 7 different IGG pledges when you consider the perk/options that were added, so 1 unit = 7 IGG campaign contributions in my case.
 
As I recall it was fewer than 500 total units, as that was a threshold by which some additional perk or add-on would have automatically kicked in for free had that number been met, but in the end it fell short of that, somewhere in the 400 unit total range I believe.
 
It's been so damn long, it's sadly now impossible to remember all of those details but they are probably stated somewhere way back in this thread.

So only 16 months to go?  400/25?   Still can't believe that the metal work is the problem.  you could 3D print them at that rate!

 

[EdmontonCanuck]

What I find egregious is that they had the balls to demand we pay for additional SHIPPING charges that they said was necessary due to the weight of the shipping package they were going to send out. How long ago was that? 2 years ago?
 
I can't comment on what my Vi Tube DAC will land up sounding like, since at this point I don't really care. As soon as I get it, it's going up for sale to whomever wants it.

 

[AVJazz]

I was looking back at the actual language used on the IGG page regarding shipping: 
 
"We'll invoice you separately for shipping once your unit is ready"
 
Well it didn't quite work out that way, did it?  
 
And yes, the use of the word "already" as in "We already found second good CNC factory that will start their first production in next two week" is hilarious.
 
As in: from what I could tell LHL never found a first "good" CNC factory -- uh, excuse me,  but remember the LH March 13 forum post: "In March next week, we should have another bigger batch of chassis coming in."  Guess that batch never arrived, or had a scratches, or was held up by a dock strike, or held up because shipping boxes had not arrived, the dog ate my homework, or whatever the LHL excuse-of-the-day...
 
What's more troubling is it sounds like there's not been an actual line run of the CNC'd chassis -- hopefully this new factory has at least produced some prototypes (?) -- but it sounds like everything is now depending on this new source being able to manufacture something to the spec's.
 
And given past history, has LHL utilized even one vendor that has supplied the needed parts at the desired quality level in the promised time frame (at specified cost)?  
 
Anyone who has been following this for the past couple of years can already predict the next installment:  May will come and go, and then after lots of posts demanding updates, we might get an update in late June with another shaggy dog story claiming this new CNC factory did not come through as promised and LH is going to set up a meeting with them to discuss ways of improving the manufacturing process and thank you for your patience, and then another 4 months will pass without an update and someone from the 'Happiness' team will say they are trying to get some units shipped out before Christmas, but Christmas will come and go and nothing...
 
Hopefully LH will at least find some new excuses because these are getting kind of stale...

 

[EElegances]

.....  
Anyone who has been following this for the past couple of years can already predict the next installment:  May will come and go, and then after lots of posts demanding updates, we might get an update in late June with another shaggy dog story claiming this new CNC factory did not come through as promised and LH is going to set up a meeting with them to discuss ways of improving the manufacturing process and thank you for your patience, and then another 4 months will pass without an update and someone from the 'Happiness' team will say they are trying to get some units shipped out before Christmas, but Christmas will come and go and nothing...
 
Hopefully LH will at least find some new excuses because these are getting kind of stale...

Sadly I agree. And there are many other repeating mishaps and excuses that may happen again: Another survey; another marketplace and/or forum site change; an opportunity to buy something; Larry gone to Asia for a few months; at least one more Chinese New Year excuse; LHL will change their mind and decide to build non-Signature versions first and then when the promised deadline passes will change back to building Signature versions first; Larry will spend more days at audio shows to show off equipment they don't deliver, maybe another spin-off Indiegogo project under another name, etc., etc.
 
As has been pointed out, while they claim they've had trouble securing a CNC factory for the chassis Larry hasn't clarified if all the internal boards and parts are ordered much less received.
 
And to think that similar versions of this Vi story are happening simultaneously with Pulse, Wave, and Source (and Amps, and other products under other company names)! And that, as far as I can tell, almost everything for all these products needs to be managed and completed by Larry.
 
On the bright side (lol) there are excuses I've seen in other campaigns that LHL hasn't tried yet (like, "we decided to move another direction"; "we decided to raise money from VCs before going into production"; "a necessary part has gone out of production ..."; "we shipped all products but can't stick around to support them (when actually not all shipped)"; "we are working 24/7 and value your support" (each few months with no product delivering); "we are waiting (endlessly) for government certification" .... etc.
 
What I think we really want beyond the obvious (refunds or delivered working products) is honest updates that say what has actually happened (good and bad) and what is actually planned to happen next. Forget bi-weekly, monthly would work. It would be cathartic, right? 

 

[AVJazz]

If and when we finally get the Vi DAC, it will be especially gratifying that it includes, as per what it still says on the IGG STORY web page:
 
Dual 2015 ESS SABRE9018AQ2M DAC Chips
Vi's DAC's design has always been to utilize ESS' Sabre 9018 DAC microchip for its digital to analog conversion. New for 2015, ESS has released the 9018AQ2M, which boasts even better harmonic distortion characteristics than its predecessor, as well as a lower noise floor and greater dynamic range. You have the option to utilize this new chip if you so choose.
 
 
For those who have been following the plot, remember the big fuss made when LHL was requiring us to pledge to get the above upgraded ESS chips.  Well time marches on, but the Vi DAC design doesn't...
 
AUDIOSTREAM.COM: exaSound Audio Design e32 DAC
By Steven Plaskin • Posted: Feb 23, 2017
 
I asked George Klissarov to discuss the new features found in the e32:

The e32 DAC is built around the recently released ES9028 DAC chip from ESS Technologies. We’ve been using the old one, the “legendary” ES9018S since 2010. It's been a long wait for the new chip. During the past several years ESS released a couple of modifications of the ES9018 targeting low power consumption for mobile applications and lower cost. The revised editions of ES9018 also fixed issues of the original design and made it easy for DAC manufacturers to support DSD128 and DSD256. Our competitors used them because of the lower price and ease of implementation. Despite the difficulties, we continued to use the original chip because of the superior specifications and ultimately - the superior sound. Finally we have a superior successor of the ES9018S – the ES 9028 PRO. Notable advancements include quantizer improvement via additional dither, improved dynamics, redesigned mapping of the digital signals to the analog subsystems of the chip and improved noise vs. DC offset.
 

Read more at http://www.audiostream.com/content/exasound-audio-design-e32-dac#2i3vtW6oUQx7RSwA.99
 
 
And time marches on some more...
 
 
ATASCADERO, CA | March 2017— Wyred 4 Sound is pleased to announce a new DAC lineup using all-new ESS Sabre PRO DAC chips. The flagship DAC-2v2SE, with extensively upgraded parts, employs ESS’ best chip, the 9038PRO.
 
 
At the current (non-)production rate, those intending to immediately sell their Vi DAC upon arrival might get a better deal on Antiques Road Show than Audiogon.