[Dannemand]

Hopefully someone knows the answer to this question about LG's volume output and gain scheme.

There's a 75 step volume control that operates in the analogue domain. Typically on most amplifiers the volume control has both attenuation and gain of the signal. But some volume controls are just attenuation-only.

What's the case with LG phones? Does volume level 75 essentially represent '0' gain and '0' attenuation? Or is the '0' level somewhere lower at level 60 for example?

I typically use my LG with an external portable amplifier. I want to avoid over-amping the signal. The phone sets itself to 'External Device' output mode. I set the volume to level 60 on the LG HiFi volume control.

I'm really just guessing here by setting my LG volume to 60 for external mode output and wish I knew how this volume control worked to avoid over-amping and also bit-loss from too much attenuation.

That is an excellent question. I am almost certain the answer is attenuation, but only almost.

I haven't seen the data sheet for the ES9218p, but to my understanding the OpAmp is an integrated part. ES9218 is a current-out DAC, so its output stage consists of an I/V converter (turning the current into voltage) as well as an amp.

Based on studies of the es9218p codec source (the driver for the DAC) I know the following:

1) The AVC (Analog Volume Control) levels are programmed into registers of the 9218p. So however the output stage is implemented, it is controlled by the DAC.

In the codec the volume steps control a combination of 25 AVC levels (from 0 to -25 dB) and 80 so-called "Master trim levels" (from 0 to -40 dB). I don't know exactly how they interact to form our 75 volume levels. I am guessing they combine analog gain control with some digital control in order to minimize loss of resolution (from digital control) while keeping the number of AVC levels more manageable. I am sure others can better interpret that.

But it is almost certain that they are attenuation from max output. See the following tables from the codec (this is for V30. V40, G7, V35 have different volume curves):

Spoiler: 9218p AVC and Master trim tables

static const u32 master_trim_tbl[] = {
    /*  0   db */   0x7FFFFFFF,
    /*- 0.5 db */   0x78D6FC9D,
    /*- 1   db */   0x721482BF,
    /*- 1.5 db */   0x6BB2D603,
    /*- 2   db */   0x65AC8C2E,
    /*- 2.5 db */   0x5FFC888F,
    /*- 3   db */   0x5A9DF7AA,
    /*- 3.5 db */   0x558C4B21,
    /*- 4   db */   0x50C335D3,
    /*- 4.5 db */   0x4C3EA838,
    /*- 5   db */   0x47FACCEF,
    /*- 5.5 db */   0x43F4057E,
    /*- 6   db */   0x4026E73C,
    /*- 6.5 db */   0x3C90386F,
    /*- 7   db */   0x392CED8D,
    /*- 7.5 db */   0x35FA26A9,
    /*- 8   db */   0x32F52CFE,
    /*- 8.5 db */   0x301B70A7,
    /*- 9   db */   0x2D6A866F,
    /*- 9.5 db */   0x2AE025C2,
    /*- 10  db */   0x287A26C4,
    /*- 10.5db */   0x26368073,
    /*- 11  db */   0x241346F5,
    /*- 11.5db */   0x220EA9F3,
    /*- 12  db */   0x2026F30F,
    /*- 12.5db */   0x1E5A8471,
    /*- 13  db */   0x1CA7D767,
    /*- 13.5db */   0x1B0D7B1B,
    /*- 14  db */   0x198A1357,
    /*- 14.5db */   0x181C5761,
    /*- 15  db */   0x16C310E3,
    /*- 15.5db */   0x157D1AE1,
    /*- 16  db */   0x144960C5,
    /*- 16.5db */   0x1326DD70,
    /*- 17  db */   0x12149A5F,
    /*- 17.5db */   0x1111AEDA,
    /*- 18  db */   0x101D3F2D,
    /*- 18.5db */   0xF367BED,
    /*- 19  db */   0xE5CA14C,
    /*- 19.5db */   0xD8EF66D,
    /*- 20  db */   0xCCCCCCC,
    /*- 20.5db */   0xC157FA9,
    /*- 21  db */   0xB687379,
    /*- 21.5db */   0xAC51566,
    /*- 22  db */   0xA2ADAD1,
    /*- 22.5db */   0x99940DB,
    /*- 23  db */   0x90FCBF7,
    /*- 23.5db */   0x88E0783,
    /*- 24  db */   0x8138561,
    /*- 24.5db */   0x79FDD9F,
    /*- 25  db */   0x732AE17,
    /*- 25.5db */   0x6CB9A26,
    /*- 26  db */   0x66A4A52,
    /*- 26.5db */   0x60E6C0B,
    /*- 27  db */   0x5B7B15A,
    /*- 27.5db */   0x565D0AA,
    /*- 28  db */   0x518847F,
    /*- 28.5db */   0x4CF8B43,
    /*- 29  db */   0x48AA70B,
    /*- 29.5db */   0x4499D60,
    /*- 30  db */   0x40C3713,
    /*- 30.5db */   0x3D2400B,
    /*- 31  db */   0x39B8718,
    /*- 31.5db */   0x367DDCB,
    /*- 32  db */   0x337184E,
    /*- 32.5db */   0x3090D3E,
    /*- 33  db */   0x2DD958A,
    /*- 33.5db */   0x2B48C4F,
    /*- 34  db */   0x28DCEBB,
    /*- 34.5db */   0x2693BF0,
    /*- 35  db */   0x246B4E3,
    /*- 35.5db */   0x2261C49,
    /*- 36  db */   0x207567A,
    /*- 36.5db */   0x1EA4958,
    /*- 37  db */   0x1CEDC3C,
    /*- 37.5db */   0x1B4F7E2,
    /*- 38  db */   0x19C8651,
    /*- 38.5db */   0x18572CA,
    /*- 39  db */   0x16FA9BA,
    /*- 39.5db */   0x15B18A4,
    /*- 40  db */   0x147AE14,
};

static const u8 avc_vol_tbl[] = {
    /*  0   db */   0x40,
    /*- 1   db */   0x41,
    /*- 2   db */   0x42,
    /*- 3   db */   0x43,
    /*- 4   db */   0x44,
    /*- 5   db */   0x45,
    /*- 6   db */   0x46,
    /*- 7   db */   0x47,
    /*- 8   db */   0x48,
    /*- 9   db */   0x49,
    /*- 10  db */   0x4A,
    /*- 11  db */   0x4B,
    /*- 12  db */   0x4C,
    /*- 13  db */   0x4D,
    /*- 14  db */   0x4E,
    /*- 15  db */   0x4F,
    /*- 16  db */   0X50,
    /*- 17  db */   0X51,
    /*- 18  db */   0X52,
    /*- 19  db */   0X53,
    /*- 20  db */   0X54,
    /*- 21  db */   0X55,
    /*- 22  db */   0X56,
    /*- 23  db */   0X57,
    /*- 24  db */   0X58,
};

2) The DAC itself has TWO amplification modes (not THREE): HifiOne providing up to 1Vrms, and HifiTwo providing up to 2Vrms.

Normal mode (<50Ohm) obviously uses HifiOne (1Vrms) and High Impedance mode (>50Ohm) uses HifiTwo (2Vrms). Aux mode (>600Ohm) is implemented as HiFiOne (1Vrms) but allowing the full 1v output, whereas Normal mode is limited to less than 1Vrms through AVC.

So when using Aux mode (plugging the phone into an external amp) you will get 1Vrms at a volume setting of 75 -- as Amir found in his G7 review. And that is in principal your preferred setting for minimum noise and distortion: Volume 75 equals '0' attenuation.

Now, somewhere in this thread some of our more knowledgeable members (I believe @csglinux and @charleski, but I could remember wrong) measured distortion at max volume level (75) which dropped quite a bit when going down just one step (74). And that's why 75 is only your best setting in principal, and 72-74 may perform better.

So for your amp, assume that you will get 1 volt from the phone and set the amp's gain or sensitivity control accordingly for maximum volume -- to avoid clipping and blowing out speakers/headphones/ears.

I hope that answers your question. And I hope the answer is correct

Edit: Corrected typo in (2) above that swapped Aux and Normal mode. Obviously Normal mode is the one with limited output.

 

[runssical]

That is an excellent question. I am almost certain the answer is attenuation, but only almost.

I haven't seen the data sheet for the ES9218p, but to my understanding the OpAmp is an integrated part. ES9218 is a current-out DAC, so its output stage consists of an I/V converter (turning the current into voltage) as well as an amp.

Based on studies of the es9218p codec source (the driver for the DAC) I know the following:

1) The AVC (Analog Volume Control) levels are programmed into registers of the 9218p. So however the output stage is implemented, it is controlled by the DAC.

In the codec the volume steps control a combination of 25 AVC levels (from 0 to -25 dB) and 80 so-called "Master trim levels" (from 0 to -40 dB). I don't know exactly how they interact to form our 75 volume levels. I am guessing they combine analog gain control with some digital control in order to minimize loss of resolution (from digital control) while keeping the number of AVC levels more manageable. I am sure others can better interpret that.

But it is almost certain that they are attenuation from max output. See the following tables from the codec (this is for V30. V40, G7, V35 have different volume curves):

Spoiler: 9218p AVC and Master trim tables

static const u32 master_trim_tbl[] = {
    /*  0   db */   0x7FFFFFFF,
    /*- 0.5 db */   0x78D6FC9D,
    /*- 1   db */   0x721482BF,
    /*- 1.5 db */   0x6BB2D603,
    /*- 2   db */   0x65AC8C2E,
    /*- 2.5 db */   0x5FFC888F,
    /*- 3   db */   0x5A9DF7AA,
    /*- 3.5 db */   0x558C4B21,
    /*- 4   db */   0x50C335D3,
    /*- 4.5 db */   0x4C3EA838,
    /*- 5   db */   0x47FACCEF,
    /*- 5.5 db */   0x43F4057E,
    /*- 6   db */   0x4026E73C,
    /*- 6.5 db */   0x3C90386F,
    /*- 7   db */   0x392CED8D,
    /*- 7.5 db */   0x35FA26A9,
    /*- 8   db */   0x32F52CFE,
    /*- 8.5 db */   0x301B70A7,
    /*- 9   db */   0x2D6A866F,
    /*- 9.5 db */   0x2AE025C2,
    /*- 10  db */   0x287A26C4,
    /*- 10.5db */   0x26368073,
    /*- 11  db */   0x241346F5,
    /*- 11.5db */   0x220EA9F3,
    /*- 12  db */   0x2026F30F,
    /*- 12.5db */   0x1E5A8471,
    /*- 13  db */   0x1CA7D767,
    /*- 13.5db */   0x1B0D7B1B,
    /*- 14  db */   0x198A1357,
    /*- 14.5db */   0x181C5761,
    /*- 15  db */   0x16C310E3,
    /*- 15.5db */   0x157D1AE1,
    /*- 16  db */   0x144960C5,
    /*- 16.5db */   0x1326DD70,
    /*- 17  db */   0x12149A5F,
    /*- 17.5db */   0x1111AEDA,
    /*- 18  db */   0x101D3F2D,
    /*- 18.5db */   0xF367BED,
    /*- 19  db */   0xE5CA14C,
    /*- 19.5db */   0xD8EF66D,
    /*- 20  db */   0xCCCCCCC,
    /*- 20.5db */   0xC157FA9,
    /*- 21  db */   0xB687379,
    /*- 21.5db */   0xAC51566,
    /*- 22  db */   0xA2ADAD1,
    /*- 22.5db */   0x99940DB,
    /*- 23  db */   0x90FCBF7,
    /*- 23.5db */   0x88E0783,
    /*- 24  db */   0x8138561,
    /*- 24.5db */   0x79FDD9F,
    /*- 25  db */   0x732AE17,
    /*- 25.5db */   0x6CB9A26,
    /*- 26  db */   0x66A4A52,
    /*- 26.5db */   0x60E6C0B,
    /*- 27  db */   0x5B7B15A,
    /*- 27.5db */   0x565D0AA,
    /*- 28  db */   0x518847F,
    /*- 28.5db */   0x4CF8B43,
    /*- 29  db */   0x48AA70B,
    /*- 29.5db */   0x4499D60,
    /*- 30  db */   0x40C3713,
    /*- 30.5db */   0x3D2400B,
    /*- 31  db */   0x39B8718,
    /*- 31.5db */   0x367DDCB,
    /*- 32  db */   0x337184E,
    /*- 32.5db */   0x3090D3E,
    /*- 33  db */   0x2DD958A,
    /*- 33.5db */   0x2B48C4F,
    /*- 34  db */   0x28DCEBB,
    /*- 34.5db */   0x2693BF0,
    /*- 35  db */   0x246B4E3,
    /*- 35.5db */   0x2261C49,
    /*- 36  db */   0x207567A,
    /*- 36.5db */   0x1EA4958,
    /*- 37  db */   0x1CEDC3C,
    /*- 37.5db */   0x1B4F7E2,
    /*- 38  db */   0x19C8651,
    /*- 38.5db */   0x18572CA,
    /*- 39  db */   0x16FA9BA,
    /*- 39.5db */   0x15B18A4,
    /*- 40  db */   0x147AE14,
};

static const u8 avc_vol_tbl[] = {
    /*  0   db */   0x40,
    /*- 1   db */   0x41,
    /*- 2   db */   0x42,
    /*- 3   db */   0x43,
    /*- 4   db */   0x44,
    /*- 5   db */   0x45,
    /*- 6   db */   0x46,
    /*- 7   db */   0x47,
    /*- 8   db */   0x48,
    /*- 9   db */   0x49,
    /*- 10  db */   0x4A,
    /*- 11  db */   0x4B,
    /*- 12  db */   0x4C,
    /*- 13  db */   0x4D,
    /*- 14  db */   0x4E,
    /*- 15  db */   0x4F,
    /*- 16  db */   0X50,
    /*- 17  db */   0X51,
    /*- 18  db */   0X52,
    /*- 19  db */   0X53,
    /*- 20  db */   0X54,
    /*- 21  db */   0X55,
    /*- 22  db */   0X56,
    /*- 23  db */   0X57,
    /*- 24  db */   0X58,
};

2) The DAC itself has TWO amplification modes (not THREE): HifiOne providing up to 1Vrms, and HifiTwo providing up to 2Vrms. Normal mode (<50Ohm) obviously uses HifiOne (1Vrms) and High Impedance mode (>50Ohm) uses HifiTwo (2Vrms). Aux mode (>600Ohm) is implemented as HiFiOne (1Vrms) but limiting the output to less than 1Vrms through AVC.

So when using Aux mode (plugging the phone into an external amp) you will get 1Vrms at a volume setting of 75 -- as Amir found in his G7 review. And that is in principal your preferred setting for minimum noise and distortion: Volume 75 equals '0' attenuation.

Now, somewhere in this thread some of our more knowledgeable members (I believe @csglinux and @charleski, but I could remember wrong) measured distortion at max volume level (75) which dropped quite a bit when going down just one step (74). And that's why 75 is only your best setting in principal, and 72-74 may perform better.

So for your amp, assume that you will get 1 volt from the phone and set the amp's gain or sensitivity control accordingly for maximum volume -- to avoid clipping and blowing out speakers/headphones/ears.

I hope that answers your question. And I hope the answer is correct

Wow, this is a lot of information to chew on. Thanks for explaining everything in-depth.

I use the FiiO A5 Amplifier (now discontinued according to manufacture). The A5 has two gain settings, 0dB and 13dB (Hi Gain). I use the Hi Gain because Lo gain, even with volume on the LG at the 75 level, leaves extremely little headroom for my headphones (MDR-Z7 and HD650).

But on the flip side level 75 is way too much signal strength for the A5 at 13dB gain. So I do have to turn it down to 65-60 for most albums.

Hopefully, there's not too much degradation of the signal or lost bits at 60ish on the LG volume.

It does sound better this way, i.e. lower LG volume + higher A5 volume pot position as opposed to the inverse.

 

[Dannemand]

Wow, this is a lot of information to chew on. Thanks for explaining everything in-depth.

I use the FiiO A5 Amplifier (now discontinued according to manufacture). The A5 has two gain settings, 0dB and 13dB (Hi Gain). I use the Hi Gain because Lo gain, even with volume on the LG at the 75 level, leaves extremely little headroom for my headphones (MDR-Z7 and HD650).

But on the flip side level 75 is way too much signal strength for the A5 at 13dB gain. So I do have to turn it down to 65-60 for most albums.

Hopefully, there's not too much degradation of the signal or lost bits at 60ish on the LG volume.

It does sound better this way, i.e. lower LG volume + higher A5 volume pot position as opposed to the inverse.

I wouldn't worry about turning it down to 65-60. Again, it is an analog volume control, even IF they use digital for the fine steps -- which I don't know for sure. And even IF they do, it would be implemented in the 32-bit space of the internally upsampled stream, not the 16 or 24 bit space of the source.

ESS has this enlightening presentation about why digital volume control isn't as terrible in a 32-bit DAC as people often think.

 

[RishiGuru]

I love Amir's measurements and have huge respect for his work over at ASR -- although I don't always agree with everything his most ardent followers are saying.

But when I read his LG G7 review, it seemed as if he didn't quite understand the gain modes of the Quad DAC or how different settings in Android and UAPP affected audio processing in these phones. That is understandable: There is a reason we have this large V30 thread here on head-fi PLUS a dedicated Music Apps, tips and tricks thread, PLUS threads for other LG models, PLUS a large UAPP thread. There is a lot to know, and nobody can figure it all out just by reviewing the phone for a day.

I think Amir would be the first to agree with that. He comes across as a very reasonable guy, and very realistic about what his measurements can show and what they can't.

Previously I too was skeptical about UAPP. I am a late mover and now after using it for sometime I believe it is the best audio player app for Android. I am speaking in the subjective level and confess I do not have golden ears. I am a simple man with a simple need, audio quality. Everything else comes next be it snazzy graphical interface or even ease of use.

In the smartphone domain, after trying dozen of brands like LG, Vivo, Meizu, Samsung, Oppo, Huawei, Nokia, Motorola, Lenovo, Sony with their own default music players in the end only two stands out. LG & Vivo. Both their default music players outgun others in terms of audio fidelity with their inherent ability to circumvent Android's famed audio stack. And then UAPP betters both by few degrees.

In the end music it's all about enjoying and having inner peace. It doesn't matter what quality of source, music app or headphones one uses as long as they are happy.

 

[kkugel]

Based on how the V30 Quad DAC is implemented and how UAPP works, I very much doubt that UAPP is upsampling, unless (A) it is specifically configured to upsample in Settings, or (B) your phone is a model that UAPP doesn't detect as a Quad DAC phone, or (C) you have a custom ROM or mods installed (Ainur, Viper or others) that prevent UAPP from playing through Direct path or otherwise mess with the audio stream.

But I DO believe you when you say you are hearing artifacts and a difference between PowerAmp and UAPP. Let's see if we can find out what it is going on. Are you able to capture audio_flinger dumps using ADB? If so, that will settle the matter right there. Basically, you run the following ADB command immediately after starting playback of a track:

adb shell dumpsys media.audio_flinger >"audio_flinger.txt"

This will create a file called "audio_flinger.txt". Rename it to reflect which player and what kind of track you were playing (say "UAPP 16-44.txt") then attach it to a post here. Please post for both UAPP and PowerAmp.

Listening to the track you mentioned (this one) I didn't hear any artifacts at the very beginning or at 0:50, but I did hear what sounded like a poorly recorded snare drum starting at 0:20, which I don't remember belonging there in Tchaikovsky's violin concerto. In truth, it sounded like watermarking to me -- which I've found in several other Tidal tracks, most grossly in Abbado/BPO Brahms 3, 2.

But it's also quite possible you are hearing something I am not, as my ears are not what they used to be, and the most sensitive IEMs I have are CCA C10 (4BA 1DD, 108dB/mW).

Either way, IF what you are hearing is watermarking or other artifacts in the track itself, it is quite possible that UAPP reveals that, because it DOES in fact play bit-perfect.

UAPP and PowerAmp should sound the same if both are correctly configured:

1) In UAPP Settings, enable the HiRes Direct Driver and disable ALL HiRes driver flags, except MQA. (You can disable MQA as well while playing non-MQA 16/44 as it will otherwise force the MQA Digital Filter to be used by the DAC, even on non-MQA tracks. I personally don't like that.) Also in UAPP Settings, set HiRes driver audio format=Auto, Bit perfect mode=on, Upsample=off. Assuming UAPP properly detects your phone and no audio mods are installed, this will ensure that all tracks are played through Direct path with no resampling.

2) PowerAmp (to my understanding) can be made to do the same, but only by configuring it to resample everything to 44/24, including HiRes. I don't know if PowerAmp goes through an actual interpolation process when "resampling" 44/16 to 44/24 (which would kill Bit-perfect) or if it just pads 8 bits like UAPP (which preserves Bit-perfect). Of course disable this resampling when playing HiRes files (or anything 24-bit).

Again, if you are able to capture those audio_flinger dumps, we'll find out what's going on

Edit: Re-installing UAPP will indeed restore its app settings. But you can start fresh with Clear Data for UAPP in your phone's App menu (under Storage). It should still keep your playlists (stored in the UAPP folder on Internal Storage).

Edit 2: While on the subject of Tchaikovsky's violin concerto, check this classic Everest Records re-issue from 1960, by London Symphony Orchestra with Tossy Spivakovsky, recorded on three-track 35mm magnetic film. Great imaging, and very clean for its age.

Wow amazing reply, thanks! I reinstalled UAPP yesterday and the artifacts where gone. They sound like pixelated hiss, very strange. Maybe my phone is just defective as I coulnd't receive SMS either up until now. I'll try to do the adb log.

 

[GearMe]

Previously I too was skeptical about UAPP. I am a late mover and now after using it for sometime I believe it is the best audio player app for Android. I am speaking in the subjective level and confess I do not have golden ears. I am a simple man with a simple need, audio quality. Everything else comes next be it snazzy graphical interface or even ease of use.

In the smartphone domain, after trying dozen of brands like LG, Vivo, Meizu, Samsung, Oppo, Huawei, Nokia, Motorola, Lenovo, Sony with their own default music players in the end only two stands out. LG & Vivo. Both their default music players outgun others in terms of audio fidelity with their inherent ability to circumvent Android's famed audio stack. And then UAPP betters both by few degrees.

In the end music it's all about enjoying and having inner peace. It doesn't matter what quality of source, music app or headphones one uses as long as they are happy.

Couldn't agree more!

 

[W1ll1eTheP1mp]

My advice is go to V50 and disable all updates in the System and Ddeveloper settings.
It is important not to updale to Android 10 or you will loose its ability to do MQA or DSD right.

As what they did to v60. All are downconverted to 88.2Khz. Bummer.

Here is Davy's post last Feb:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/usb...udio-support-for-android.704065/post-15478566

Seems like LG has killed DSD/DoP playback on Android 10. The official LG Music app plays at 88200Hz in floating point mode (format 0x5). To check if LG didn't abuse format 5 for DoP, I checked the logcat and there is no sample rate change between playing DSD64 and DSD128. Can anyone confirm what I'm seeing on a V50 or G8?
dumpsys audio.media_flinger also shows the same thing. It even lists DoP modes, but when UAPP (or any competitor app) tries to use that, nothing is played and the phone becomes unstable. Some nice progress by the folks at LG?!

Ehh, MQA is still the same as android 9?

 

[kkugel]

Based on how the V30 Quad DAC is implemented and how UAPP works, I very much doubt that UAPP is upsampling, unless (A) it is specifically configured to upsample in Settings, or (B) your phone is a model that UAPP doesn't detect as a Quad DAC phone, or (C) you have a custom ROM or mods installed (Ainur, Viper or others) that prevent UAPP from playing through Direct path or otherwise mess with the audio stream.

But I DO believe you when you say you are hearing artifacts and a difference between PowerAmp and UAPP. Let's see if we can find out what it is going on. Are you able to capture audio_flinger dumps using ADB? If so, that will settle the matter right there. Basically, you run the following ADB command immediately after starting playback of a track:

adb shell dumpsys media.audio_flinger >"audio_flinger.txt"

This will create a file called "audio_flinger.txt". Rename it to reflect which player and what kind of track you were playing (say "UAPP 16-44.txt") then attach it to a post here. Please post for both UAPP and PowerAmp.

Listening to the track you mentioned (this one) I didn't hear any artifacts at the very beginning or at 0:50, but I did hear what sounded like a poorly recorded snare drum starting at 0:20, which I don't remember belonging there in Tchaikovsky's violin concerto. In truth, it sounded like watermarking to me -- which I've found in several other Tidal tracks, most grossly in Abbado/BPO Brahms 3, 2.

But it's also quite possible you are hearing something I am not, as my ears are not what they used to be, and the most sensitive IEMs I have are CCA C10 (4BA 1DD, 108dB/mW).

Either way, IF what you are hearing is watermarking or other artifacts in the track itself, it is quite possible that UAPP reveals that, because it DOES in fact play bit-perfect.

UAPP and PowerAmp should sound the same if both are correctly configured:

1) In UAPP Settings, enable the HiRes Direct Driver and disable ALL HiRes driver flags, except MQA. (You can disable MQA as well while playing non-MQA 16/44 as it will otherwise force the MQA Digital Filter to be used by the DAC, even on non-MQA tracks. I personally don't like that.) Also in UAPP Settings, set HiRes driver audio format=Auto, Bit perfect mode=on, Upsample=off. Assuming UAPP properly detects your phone and no audio mods are installed, this will ensure that all tracks are played through Direct path with no resampling.

2) PowerAmp (to my understanding) can be made to do the same, but only by configuring it to resample everything to 44/24, including HiRes. I don't know if PowerAmp goes through an actual interpolation process when "resampling" 44/16 to 44/24 (which would kill Bit-perfect) or if it just pads 8 bits like UAPP (which preserves Bit-perfect). Of course disable this resampling when playing HiRes files (or anything 24-bit).

Again, if you are able to capture those audio_flinger dumps, we'll find out what's going on

Edit: Re-installing UAPP will indeed restore its app settings. But you can start fresh with Clear Data for UAPP in your phone's App menu (under Storage). It should still keep your playlists (stored in the UAPP folder on Internal Storage).

Edit 2: While on the subject of Tchaikovsky's violin concerto, check this classic Everest Records re-issue from 1960, by London Symphony Orchestra with Tossy Spivakovsky, recorded on three-track 35mm magnetic film. Great imaging, and very clean for its age.

Issue is back but my mac somehow doesn't recognize my LG in adb.

 

[kkugel]

I love Amir's measurements and have huge respect for his work over at ASR -- although I don't always agree with everything his most ardent followers are saying.

But when I read his LG G7 review, it seemed as if he didn't quite understand the gain modes of the Quad DAC or how different settings in Android and UAPP affected audio processing in these phones. That is understandable: There is a reason we have this large V30 thread here on head-fi PLUS a dedicated Music Apps, tips and tricks thread, PLUS threads for other LG models, PLUS a large UAPP thread. There is a lot to know, and nobody can figure it all out just by reviewing the phone for a day.

I think Amir would be the first to agree with that. He comes across as a very reasonable guy, and very realistic about what his measurements can show and what they can't.

Ok so I just checked a bit back and forth and it's the Tidal implementation of UAPP introducing the artifacts. I don't hear em with local files.

Edit: Now it's gone again with Tidal too, jeeez what the hell is going on.

 

[mottykytu]

Guys I'm using the V30 for 3 years now, Is there any phone now on the market has surpassed the V30 in term of hi-end music experience yet? many thanks

 

[W1ll1eTheP1mp]

AFAIK, the MQA on android 9 is exactly the same on android 10!?

 

[Dannemand]

Issue is back but my mac somehow doesn't recognize my LG in adb.

Ok so I just checked a bit back and forth and it's the Tidal implementation of UAPP introducing the artifacts. I don't hear em with local files.

Edit: Now it's gone again with Tidal too, jeeez what the hell is going on.

Sounds like the QuadDAC is cutting in and out. Or some other hardware problem.

But I suggest you try a Factory Data Reset before concluding that. It's not as bad as most people think: The LG backup feature in Settings - General - Backup - Backup & Restore will save your settings and app data and store them in a file which you copy to your Mac before you wipe the phone. It can include Internal storage in the backup too, but I suggest you manually copy just the folders you want to preserve to your Mac as well.

Still, even with that Backup feature, it can take a while to get everything set up again. But of course check music playback as the first thing, before you spend time on other setup

 

[sebek]

I didn't quite understand one thing.

Would LG V30 with a headphone like Drop Sennheiser HD 58X with 150 Ohm impedance automatically go into high gain mode?

And with low impedance iems would it stay on low gain?

Is there much difference in SQ between the two?

Has anyone been able to compare the LG V30 to a Tempotec Sonata HD Pro in terms of SQ?

 

[sebek]

I didn't quite understand one thing.

Would LG V30 with a headphone like Drop Sennheiser HD 58X with 150 Ohm impedance automatically go into high gain mode?

And with low impedance iems would it stay on low gain?

Is there much difference in SQ between the two?

Has anyone been able to compare the LG V30 to a Tempotec Sonata HD Pro in terms of SQ?

PS: The issue of oversampling is also not very clear to me. Can't play at 16/44 I read, using UAPP would I lose something in SQ because of that?

 

[Chris Kaoss]

I didn't quite understand one thing.

Would LG V30 with a headphone like Drop Sennheiser HD 58X with 150 Ohm impedance automatically go into high gain mode?

And with low impedance iems would it stay on low gain?

Is there much difference in SQ between the two?

Has anyone been able to compare the LG V30 to a Tempotec Sonata HD Pro in terms of SQ?

Yes, all headphone above 50ohm will force the high impedance mode automatically.

That's the caveat with my Denons or Quad headphones, which have a resistance of lower than 30 ohm, i've to trigger the HIM with my old AKG K530ltd headphone.

Imo, there is no difference in sonic quality between the 3 "gain stages".

I'be read somewhere that UAPP is converting the 16/ 44 to 24/44 to bypass the android mixer.
So there'll be no loss in sound quality by using this music player.

Even playing Tidal with UAPP sounds better than through the Tidal app, ime.