LG V30
Nov 2, 2019 at 11:50 AM Post #5,506 of 6,140
If you want all the online functions, try a cheaper V40 because it's going to sound the same as the V50 and even new G8x...the new tuning partner makes it smoother than the v30.

If you want something with a "fun" signature and don't mind losing online capability, try to find a Calyx M (last run available in Japan) or the DTR1--both tuned strictly for sound quality as opposed to features.
I like the Calyx M and DTR1 idea of concentrating on SQ and ditching all wifi and bluetooth which should help battery life.
But, absence of EQ is a no go for me.
Listening extremely different genres of music sometimes pushes me to use them.

@monsieurfromag3
I think it was fiio e10k. Mind you it wasnt "blown out of water" change" but it surfaced my itch to start looking for potencial improvement which was in back of my mind for a while.

What you guys think? Should i take almost new wm1a for 650? Is it an upgrade in terms of SQ over v30 you think?
 
Nov 2, 2019 at 1:05 PM Post #5,507 of 6,140
Well just to be clear, i am nowhere near as experienced listener as you seem to be. I am more looking for advice.
I dont think v30 cant drive my zeniths. But i am not a musician or physician and i never had dedicated player so was wondering how/if it is better then dac/ phone hybrid.
But i did try my r1 zenith on cheapish desktop amp and there was a difference though no idea why.
That is why im here asking people like you.
Though i think there is only one way to really find out: buy a bloody dap! And compare lol. Its just so many of them these days...
Thanks for sharing thoughts
I don't want to portray myself as an expert, nor particularly experienced. But I've been round this block before in the past myself. There've been several times when I've plugged in an external amp and thought, "Wow, the headphones certainly sound better, the bass is definitely tighter." ... only to realise that of course it sounded better, it was louder! As Jane Austen wrote, "It is a truth universally acknowledged, that music sounds better when it's loud." So the question really becomes, 'How loud do you want it to go?' and there are clear and easy ways to work out if an amp (or the output stage of a DAP) can do what you want, as long as you can track down the right numbers. The real problem is that manufacturers are shying away from releasing proper specs for their devices these days since they don't see a marketing advantage in them, so we have to rely on independent reviewers who have the equipment needed to test this stuff properly.

A modern amp really shouldn't change the tone of the music in any noticeable way. Of course that doesn't mean that it can't: the frequency response might be skewed outright; the output impedance might be too high, meaning it interacts with the reactance of the headphones and alters their tonality; or it might be some exotic design like a tube amp that has voltage sag and compression in the bass. But the vast majority of modern solid-state amps are all very well behaved when run within their design parameters ... and all sound the same as a result, as they should. You just have to work out what are the parameters you need (power output into a specified load and output impedance) and then find one that matches those.

But if you do go comparing DAPs and amps, make sure the levels are matched reasonably well. It's sometimes tricky to do this by ear, but you could do this with a sound meter on your phone, just jam the earphone against your phone's mic (make sure it's in the same position each time) and play a test track, this should be good enough for a fair comparison.
 
Nov 2, 2019 at 3:37 PM Post #5,508 of 6,140
I realised today that, obviously, I could trigger High Impedance mode simply by plugging my old Beyerdynamic DT100s into the extension lead, and then switching to the MH755. D'oh. So here's the result, and it seems my prior analysis was wrong.

THD HI.jpg
The THD was measured in exactly the same way as before, except that the input gain on my soundcard was lowered.

Yet again, the output clips when the volume of the phone is set to maximum, but is acceptable when it's at least one level below max (as before the actual distortion coming from the phone will be greatly below the numbers given here, but it can't be higher). We know that High impedance mode offers a max output of 2Vrms vs a max of 1Vrms in Aux mode. If the clipping seen earlier in Aux mode was due to the output stage running out of current (trying to push too much voltage into a low impedance), we should have seen clipping occur at volume step -2. Instead it only turns up at vol 0. Doubling the output voltage gives an extra 6dB, and each volume step in android is around 3dB, so this corresponds to the extra two usable volume steps that are available in High Impedance mode. The difference in recorded volume between High Impedance mode vol -1 and Normal mode vol 0 is 11.7dB, which is quite appreciable.

I'd assumed before that the different modes simply altered the maximum voltage gain available on the output stage in order to prevent the user driving the output into clipping (and then complaining). But it seems something else is happening as well. It's certainly interesting that @csglinux saw a similar sudden onset of clipping at maximum volume.
 
Nov 2, 2019 at 3:52 PM Post #5,509 of 6,140
I don't want to portray myself as an expert, nor particularly experienced. But I've been round this block before in the past myself. There've been several times when I've plugged in an external amp and thought, "Wow, the headphones certainly sound better, the bass is definitely tighter." ... only to realise that of course it sounded better, it was louder! As Jane Austen wrote, "It is a truth universally acknowledged, that music sounds better when it's loud." So the question really becomes, 'How loud do you want it to go?' and there are clear and easy ways to work out if an amp (or the output stage of a DAP) can do what you want, as long as you can track down the right numbers. The real problem is that manufacturers are shying away from releasing proper specs for their devices these days since they don't see a marketing advantage in them, so we have to rely on independent reviewers who have the equipment needed to test this stuff properly.

A modern amp really shouldn't change the tone of the music in any noticeable way. Of course that doesn't mean that it can't: the frequency response might be skewed outright; the output impedance might be too high, meaning it interacts with the reactance of the headphones and alters their tonality; or it might be some exotic design like a tube amp that has voltage sag and compression in the bass. But the vast majority of modern solid-state amps are all very well behaved when run within their design parameters ... and all sound the same as a result, as they should. You just have to work out what are the parameters you need (power output into a specified load and output impedance) and then find one that matches those.

But if you do go comparing DAPs and amps, make sure the levels are matched reasonably well. It's sometimes tricky to do this by ear, but you could do this with a sound meter on your phone, just jam the earphone against your phone's mic (make sure it's in the same position each time) and play a test track, this should be good enough for a fair comparison.
I probably need to go and do some thorough comparison i suppose to find out. For some reason i did think that amp affects lower FR. As i said never went into technicalities too much. Just trusted my ears. Which isnt always accurate if you dont give your ear time to "break in" i suppose.

Well, i think i will just gamble and go for sony wm1a. A will just hope i was worth the money.
 
Nov 3, 2019 at 7:17 PM Post #5,514 of 6,140
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Nov 6, 2019 at 11:26 PM Post #5,515 of 6,140
Hi all

if somebody is looking for a good deal for V30 I just posted in Source Components For Sale / Trade

cheers
Gugman
 
Nov 8, 2019 at 2:09 PM Post #5,516 of 6,140
Hi everyone,
I am considering buying a DAP for 11-11.
I already have an Xduoo X20. I was looking at Cayin, Shanling, Hidizs, HiBy or Fiio. I think I have decided I should go with one with Wifi that can install music apps (since I already have the Xduoo though I may end up selling it).
And I don't want to spend more than £200. So I was considering Fiio M6. But then I thought maybe would be better to use a an audiophile mobile phone (more versatile of course).
I already have an iPhone XS for my phone so would be using this new acquisition purely as a DAP. I see I can get LG V30 for around £120 or LG G7 for £140. Fiio M6 is imilarly prized. Other DAPs are double the prize.
So... do you think it would be the right decision to get the LG V30 or LG G7?
The only drawback I guess is the size and carrying two mobile phones when I am out (although I can just swap the simcard from the iPhone to the LG if I am going to be listening to music more than taking pictures)..

Also I know this is V30 thread... but any differences with the G7?

EDIT:
Also none of the DAPs I am considering have aptx-HD.
One drawback for the phone would be no physical buttons.

Thank you.
 
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Nov 8, 2019 at 2:30 PM Post #5,517 of 6,140
20191107_184821 (1).jpg
Hi,

Has anyone had trouble with a pair of earphones whose cable was too loose to connect to the LG V30 headphone jack?
I have B & W P7's and when I connect them there's no real sense of a firm insertion, and when I make the slightest movement (ie, walk with them in my pocket) they pop right out of the jack.
This is a refurbished V30, I brought them back to CeX store but they said it was the headphones that were the problem. I'm a bit sceptical as I haven't come across anyone with this problem.

I don't mind getting an adaptor but I want to be sure that it's not a faulty headphone jack.

Also the volume fluctuates massively sometimes when I connect/disconnect my headphones. I presume this is the Quad hi-impedance being accidentally triggered but there's no real warning of any kind and I almost deafened myself earlier when the volume was around 35/40 or so. Is this just part of the game?
 
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Nov 8, 2019 at 4:41 PM Post #5,518 of 6,140
Hi everyone,
I am considering buying a DAP for 11-11.
I already have an Xduoo X20. I was looking at Cayin, Shanling, Hidizs, HiBy or Fiio. I think I have decided I should go with one with Wifi that can install music apps (since I already have the Xduoo though I may end up selling it).
And I don't want to spend more than £200. So I was considering Fiio M6. But then I thought maybe would be better to use a an audiophile mobile phone (more versatile of course).
I already have an iPhone XS for my phone so would be using this new acquisition purely as a DAP. I see I can get LG V30 for around £120 or LG G7 for £140. Fiio M6 is imilarly prized. Other DAPs are double the prize.
So... do you think it would be the right decision to get the LG V30 or LG G7?
The only drawback I guess is the size and carrying two mobile phones when I am out (although I can just swap the simcard from the iPhone to the LG if I am going to be listening to music more than taking pictures)..

Also I know this is V30 thread... but any differences with the G7?

EDIT:
Also none of the DAPs I am considering have aptx-HD.
One drawback for the phone would be no physical buttons.

Thank you.
I got a G7 recently for exactly the reasons you mentioned in your post. I've owned a few DAPs in my time and I'm really happy with it. I'm often quite sceptical of the flowery descriptions used in some DAP/DAC reviews, but the ESS chip that LG uses is something special. Take that with a pinch of salt, as I'm not sure I'd pass a double-blind test on it, but DACs are all about implementation, and this has been implemented well.

The only real downside comes if you're using earphones with an impedance of 40-50ohms or low impedance/low sensitivity ones, as then you might have to do the high impedance trick with an extension cord. The actual amp in the phone has plenty of juice, it just needs to be told to deliver.

Double-tapping the screen wakes it up, and I pause/skip the music by tapping the lock-screen notification, or you can get a cable with a remote. I don't miss the physical buttons.

The V30 and G7 are identical in terms of sound. But the G7 will get an upgrade to Android Q, whereas P was the last major update for the V30. The G7 also launched with Oreo and thus has Treble support, if you ever want to try a custom ROM in the future this is important. So I see the G7 as having enough extra useable life to justify the small price difference right now.
 
Nov 9, 2019 at 4:43 PM Post #5,519 of 6,140
The V30 and G7 are identical in terms of sound. But the G7 will get an upgrade to Android Q, whereas P was the last major update for the V30. The G7 also launched with Oreo and thus has Treble support, if you ever want to try a custom ROM in the future this is important. So I see the G7 as having enough extra useable life to justify the small price difference right now.

For those considering V30 vs G7, I would point out that G7 has inferior hardware (other than its slightly faster CPU): It has a smaller battery (3000 vs 3300 mAh), an LCD screen vs the V30's OLED screen, and a more narrow wide angle camera. G7's taller form factor and notch are a matter of preference. As far as rootability, I doubt that any LG phone after V30 will match it: Every single V30 model worldwide can be rooted, and except the T-Mobile H932 all with great easy. There is a large developer community and dozens of stock based, AOSP based and Lineage based custom ROMs.

I just turned down LG's offer of a G7 warranty replacement for my V30 for those very reasons. Of course others may have different priorities. If the V35 was easier to root, it would be the no-brainer choice.

Edit: I almost forgot: If you can find it, V30S is the real nugget: Essentially a V30, PLUS 128GB internal storage, PLUS 6GB RAM, PLUS it'll get Android Q next year (since it released with Oreo). Fully rootable like V30 and compatible with all the same custom ROMs. But they're rare.
 
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Nov 10, 2019 at 4:51 AM Post #5,520 of 6,140
Every single V30 model worldwide can be rooted, and except the T-Mobile H932 all with great easy. There is a large developer community and dozens of stock based, AOSP based and Lineage based custom ROMs.
That's certainly an important advantage, since with the G7 LG moved to the 'secure' unlock system that many OEMs are implementing now. Since @usuario74 mentioned prices in GBP I assume he/she is in the UK, and the G7s that were sold in the EU (model G710EM) can all be unlocked officially (you just need to do some fiddling with filling in the serial numbers on an online form). But beware of people selling imported US models (I saw quite a few offers for these on eBay), since those can't be unlocked through the official method. There is a thread on xda detailing how to get most other models unlocked by cross-flashing to a firmware for Google Fi, but this requires a bit more work.
 

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