Man, you know, you could just use all this time to actually listen to and enjoy music. This phone sounds fantastic and I for one am very happy with it.
LOL, it took all of 3 minutes to install Neutron and test. Besides, the artifact I'm hearing is quite noticeable in quiet passages and 'til now I've needed to use an Iematch to suppress it, which is kind of klunky.
FWIW this artifact shows up with the quad DAC enabled or disabled, so it seems to be non Quad-DAC related at all, but a general upsampling issue if it is indeed that causing the artifact. I'll try upsampling the file externally and see what that does.
FWIW this artifact shows up with the quad DAC enabled or disabled, so it seems to be non Quad-DAC related at all, but a general upsampling issue if it is indeed that causing the artifact. I'll try upsampling the file externally and see what that does.
All you're actually doing by turning off the HiFi Quad DAC is turning off three of the four pipelines. Regardless of whether the HiFI Quad DAC switch is on or off, the LG music player will up-sample 44/16 files and Neutron (with the correct audio hardware settings) won't.
I'm not sure you up-sampling your own files will prove much, because we don't know the exact re-sampling algorithm LG used. Probably you could generate something that doesn't sound too good by using some zeroth-order interpolation using 16-bit integer arithmetic, but you still won't know exactly what LG did.
<EDIT>
I stand corrected! I had to trawl through the posts to get the correct recommended settings for Neutron-->Settings-->Audio Hardware to get the resampling to stop.
1) Generic Driver = ON
2) Generic Driver -> Hi-Res Codec = ON
3) Generic Driver -> Hi-Res Speaker = ON
4) DSP Effect (Device) = OFF
5) Low Latency = OFF
6) 32-bit Output (IEEE 754) = OFF
Now I get pristine playback. Even on Aux I can barely hear the very slightest hiss. Going to delete my incorrect content so as not to mislead others searching.
</EDIT>
Thanks so much for poiinting me here...this has been bugging me since my V10!
FWIW I have three formats I tried: WAV 44.1/16, WAV 44.1/24 Padded and WAV 48/16.
Under the correct Neutron config these all sound good, but otherwise (other players or incorrect config) exhibit the artifact. This tells me that regardless of a matching input format Android is STILL resampling the input regardless, and that with an utterly crappy algorithm since the JRiver upsample to 48/16 sounds fine in comparison.
Can't wait for UAPP to have their direct mode. Props to Neutron but the UX is very cluttered...
@csglinux
I know there's little information, but I'd like to know your opinion/expectation regarding the new V30 that will probably be released: the V30 Plus Alpha.
Thanks!
I will reply to myself because I have some serious updates.
I repeated the tests with RMAA test audio file encoded first in opus.ogg (160 kbps) and then in .mp3 (320 kbps), for both my LG V20 and the old Lumia 820.
The overall readings degrades, especially the ones connected to the stereo tests.
The frequency response instead becomes completely flat!!!
For the V20 this happens with all music player except AIMP, which when playing the mp3 still gently roll-off the highs gradually, starting from 10 kHz.
One exception: Rocket player reading are overall worse, which leads me to believe it just does not use the DAC.
It is also interesting that thanks to the degradation coming from the compressed files, the measurements of the Lumia are on par. with the ones of the V20.
What does it means? Is it only RMAA black magic, or really any mobile is just good enough to play compressed audio file on easy to drive IEMS like the IE80?
I will post soon my measurement hoping for somebody to shed some light on this mystery.
<EDIT>
I stand corrected! I had to trawl through the posts to get the correct recommended settings for Neutron-->Settings-->Audio Hardware to get the resampling to stop.
1) Generic Driver = ON
2) Generic Driver -> Hi-Res Codec = ON
3) Generic Driver -> Hi-Res Speaker = ON
4) DSP Effect (Device) = OFF
5) Low Latency = OFF
6) 32-bit Output (IEEE 754) = OFF
Now I get pristine playback. Even on Aux I can barely hear the very slightest hiss. Going to delete my incorrect content so as not to mislead others searching.
</EDIT>
Thanks so much for poiinting me here...this has been bugging me since my V10!
FWIW I have three formats I tried: WAV 44.1/16, WAV 44.1/24 Padded and WAV 48/16.
Under the correct Neutron config these all sound good, but otherwise (other players or incorrect config) exhibit the artifact. This tells me that regardless of a matching input format Android is STILL resampling the input regardless, and that with an utterly crappy algorithm since the JRiver upsample to 48/16 sounds fine in comparison.
Can't wait for UAPP to have their direct mode. Props to Neutron but the UX is very cluttered...
BTW, you can't trust the reported sample rates of most of these music apps. I'll try to post some more information on the other thread about how you can check this with audio_flinger and USB debugging. (Some people on this thread have grown tired of constantly reading about sample rates; most people out there with higher impedance phones just don't hear the problem.)
@csglinux
I know there's little information, but I'd like to know your opinion/expectation regarding the new V30 that will probably be released: the V30 Plus Alpha.
Thanks!
From what I've heard, after LG decided to delay the G7, they quickly needed to pull a rabbit out of the hat, so the "alpha" is just a V30 with some added AI, in the form of Google assistant. Nothing very Earth shattering, but then changing one internal rivet and launching the device as a whole new, shiny, exciting product has worked for Apple for years now, so....? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Recently i got v30+ and though it sounded better than then my le max x900 and really great sounding phone overall but the screen had a thin white line passing through the center.
Due to this i returned it for a replacement. The replacement given also had another screen issue due to which screen is not white on all corners. It has yellow tint on bottom left. Returned it for refund this time not because of screen issue but totally different issue all together.
Guess what? The replacement phone sounded ordinary and different from the phone i originally got. Looks like lg is screwing dacs too..
Replacement device doesn't has that great sub bass and what i call magical highs that although extremely detailed but still was non fatiguing.
What replacement device all had was mid bass and muddy vocals which sounded like something is not right with the dac on that particular device. I tried factory reset but still same problem came back.
Recently i got v30+ and though it sounded better than then my le max x900 and really great sounding phone overall but the screen had a thin white line passing through the center.
Due to this i returned it for a replacement. The replacement given also had another screen issue due to which screen is not white on all corners. It has yellow tint on bottom left. Returned it for refund this time not because of screen issue but totally different issue all together.
Guess what? The replacement phone sounded ordinary and different from the phone i originally got. Looks like lg is screwing dacs too..
Replacement device doesn't has that great sub bass and what i call magical highs that although extremely detailed but still was non fatiguing.
What replacement device all had was mid bass and muddy vocals which sounded like something is not right with the dac on that particular device. I tried factory reset but still same problem came back.
From what I've heard, after LG decided to delay the G7, they quickly needed to pull a rabbit out of the hat, so the "alpha" is just a V30 with some added AI, in the form of Google assistant. Nothing very Earth shattering, but then changing one internal rivet and launching the device as a whole new, shiny, exciting product has worked for Apple for years now, so....? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I'm so glad I found this thread. I've had the V30 since October but only recently started noticing the more annoying issues with artifacts. I've been using DT 1350s with them at work over the past month and the noise has become very apparent when using PowerAMP, I've tinkered with those settings so many times over. I found this thread and the Neutron tips thread and it's a night and day difference now that I have it set up properly with Neutron. Thanks for all the efforts in sorting this out!
<EDIT>
I stand corrected! I had to trawl through the posts to get the correct recommended settings for Neutron-->Settings-->Audio Hardware to get the resampling to stop.
1) Generic Driver = ON
2) Generic Driver -> Hi-Res Codec = ON
3) Generic Driver -> Hi-Res Speaker = ON
4) DSP Effect (Device) = OFF
5) Low Latency = OFF
6) 32-bit Output (IEEE 754) = OFF
Now I get pristine playback. Even on Aux I can barely hear the very slightest hiss. Going to delete my incorrect content so as not to mislead others searching.
</EDIT>
Thanks so much for poiinting me here...this has been bugging me since my V10!
FWIW I have three formats I tried: WAV 44.1/16, WAV 44.1/24 Padded and WAV 48/16.
Under the correct Neutron config these all sound good, but otherwise (other players or incorrect config) exhibit the artifact. This tells me that regardless of a matching input format Android is STILL resampling the input regardless, and that with an utterly crappy algorithm since the JRiver upsample to 48/16 sounds fine in comparison.
Can't wait for UAPP to have their direct mode. Props to Neutron but the UX is very cluttered...
Dither is generally not required unless your source is at a very high bitrate and it has to be resampled to a rate Android can manage and dither can help reduce quantization noise. Red Book CD and MP3 don't benefit, and your V30 can manage the high bitrate and depth content anyway without resampling.
Subsonic and Ultrasonic filter can be thought of as a type of EQ, curbing 'excessive' high and low frequencies. Given quality sources (decent quality MP3 etc) these are not needed. Use parametric EQ to tweak to your taste.
Audio Focus is an Android thing, coordinating the ability for Android to manage several audio sources and grant them access to the output in a managed fashion. This means Neutron 'plays nice' with other sounds like your cell ringing or alerts etc.
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