[otamcnet]

  Anybody?

WE?

 

[Joe Bloggs]

But you don't have perfect ears... No one does. We have to trust the machines.

That's under the assumption that the machines are perfect, but they're not.  My ears are perfect to me...

Also, people put too much trust in machines.  The human mind, brain and ears is way too diverse and complex for any machine to truly and accurately measure.  Way too many combinations and permutions etc.....  

That's the reason why debating sound is worse than debating religion.  Because what one person or one machine interprets to sound one way, another person's sound may be completely different.

Before we go into all that, are there any technical measurements that say sound with V4A patched in is worse than without?

 

[13713]

Before we go into all that, are there any technical measurements that say sound with V4A patched in is worse than without?

Not that I know of. I was kidding with the trust the machines comment. Honestly what sounds good to you matters most.

 

[killeraxemannic]

YES! Got my HiFi Man RE-00's today! They sound fantastic with the V20.... I like neutral sound and these guys are perfect! I actually feel like they are a tad bass heavy. I can confirm that the RE-00's do indeed kick the V20 into high impedance mode and the RE-00's seem to love it! Not too sad I missed the B&O headphone promo by 2 days anymore

 

[koluludome]

Down sampling problem is depends on people judgement. For me, I feel unfair that I can't get what it said that it could.

Hope LG concern this problem seriously, axon 7 have super mode to fix this situation (if I understand it right lol)

 

[Joe Bloggs]

What exactly is the LG downsampling fiasco? Does it downsample with all apps except the bundled player?

 

[13713]

What exactly is the LG downsampling fiasco? Does it downsample with all apps except the bundled player?

At the moment that is the belief. I have not researched or fussed enough to care. I can see why it would bother people.

 

[vapman]

Correct me if I'm wrong. IT's an android, not a LG issue, and has to deal with Android OS forcing downsampling of material higher than 48kHz?
 
https://developer.android.com/ndk/guides/audio/sampling-audio.html
 

 

[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.682353)]Limit downsampling to no more than 6:1[/color]

[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.682353)]Downsampling is typically triggered by hardware device requirements. When the Sample Rate converter is used for downsampling, try to limit the downsampling ratio to no more than 6:1 for good aliasing suppression (for example, no greater downsample than 48,000 to 8,000). The filter lengths adjust to match the downsampling ratio, but you sacrifice more transition bandwidth at higher downsampling ratios to avoid excessively increasing the filter length. There are no similar aliasing concerns for upsampling. Note that some parts of the audio pipeline may prevent downsampling greater than 2:1[/color]

 

[eio]

Before we go into all that, are there any technical measurements that say sound with V4A patched in is worse than without?

those effects measure horribly, distort signal is what they do.
there is no point evaluating an effect by common metrics. they should be evaluated subjectively and personally.

 

[eio]

  Why don't we shoot an email to LG about downsample fiasco?

i'm not sure how much LG can do to improve it, maybe defaults everything to DIRECT path in hifi mode? but that will also cause some problems since DIRECT path is a solo path.
 
V20 already supported some ways to playback content without resampling. this can be inspected in audio_policy.conf
but they need to be utilized by player apps. being one of the first wave of N devices made it harder.
 
V20 is the most requested device for hi-res support in poweramp forum, let's hope we could have poweramp hi-res support soon...

 

[Joe Bloggs]

those effects measure horribly, distort signal is what they do.
there is no point evaluating an effect by common metrics. they should be evaluated subjectively and personally.

Depends what you mean by distortion--stereo music when played through headphones has no crosstalk at all, while some music effects add delayed and "distorted" crosstalk that are actually an accurate simulation of what happens when you listen through loudspeakers. What about headphone correction profiles?

 

[eio]

Depends what you mean by distortion--stereo music when played through headphones has no crosstalk at all, while some music effects add delayed and "distorted" crosstalk that are actually an accurate simulation of what happens when you listen through loudspeakers. What about headphone correction profiles?

literally distortion, that is any change to the signal in digital domain. maybe we can exclude volume adjustment but that's about it.
no analog, no headphone.
 
headphone correction profiles like dirac is another category of filter, and V4A has nothing to do with it.
correction profiles has to be specifically customized for certain device driven by certain source in certain environment. they can be helpful in many situations (where sound quality already degrades a lot), but doesn't help much in hifi use.
they can be measured by soundwave, but measuring headphone performance by soundwave is a big problem by itself without widely accepted solution.
 
and it is another thing for large speakers.

 

[Joe Bloggs]

headphone correction profiles like dirac is another category of filter, and V4A has nothing to do with it.

Between me and Jason we have put out several times more headphone correction profiles for V4A than all Dirac products combined so I beg to differ.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2372750

correction profiles has to be specifically customized for certain device driven by certain source in certain environment. they can be helpful in many situations (where sound quality already degrades a lot), but doesn't help much in hifi use.

I have yet to find a HiFi headphone for which I issued a personal correction filter that ranges less than 10dB throughout the audible range after testing. And never mind the all transforming effects of loudspeaker simulation. You yourself mentioned looking for Meier crossfeed--what I produced is several orders of magnitude more sophisticated:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/811837/natural-crossfeed-on-headphones-earphones-for-foobar2000-v2-1-major-update-made-public
(never mind that this version for public consumption is much simpler than what I personally use but can't fit into a foobar package)

 

[eio]

interesting

 how do you measure a headphone properly? how do you generate the FIR filter?

 

[Joe Bloggs]

pm sent