[fjhuerta]

Thanks for the details. This is really curious. Was your V20 B&O labelled ? Just wondering if it affects all V20 devices... Was it rooted ? Did you change audio settings (for example to avoid resampling) ?

No, it wasn't rooted. No, it wasn't a B&O unit. It's an AT&T stock model.

I got the USB Audio Player Pro beta with direct digital output to the DAC. I'm going to try it with the same hi res FLAC, and report back.

If it doesn't work, I'll have to assume the unit has some sort of hardware defect...

 

[fjhuerta]

Duplicate post!

 

[fjhuerta]

When measuring the output of the V20 with hi-fi mode one is listening to an the 9218 SoC. This is not a DAC but complete computer with outputs. B&O does use the custom filtering ESS provides prior to the output stage in the digital domain. If you look at the frequency response curves of the FAST and Apodizing modes of the built-in Pro core..you will see a very aggressive low-pass filtering at and around 20K. In particular it seems there are lots of noise and artifacts produced by the apodizing linear phase filter that have to be aggressively attenuated. I do think it is the best one, from other testing on similar DACs in the proline -- but I dont know which one the V20 is using by default. My guess is it is the linear phase apodizing filter, which has fast roll-off characteristics for the reasons mentioned.

This sounds like a logical thing. It's exactly what I saw on my own V20. It was a pretty fast filter, obvious in every single file I played. BUT - my phone isn't a B&O unit. I did try and find out if the DAC was using a steeper roll-off filter, but could never find any documentation to do so.

 

[jt25741]

This sounds like a logical thing. It's exactly what I saw on my own V20. It was a pretty fast filter, obvious in every single file I played. BUT - my phone isn't a B&O unit. I did try and find out if the DAC was using a steeper roll-off filter, but could never find any documentation to do so.

I will assume for now... that the stock V20 uses the same default filter as the V30... For those with a v30 you can see what that is in the filter selection screen. I dont have a v30 so I am not sure what that is. My guess is a linear phase filter with fast rolloff ..cause that is what all the other ESS DACs I have seen or owned default to.

 

[tienbasse]

I will assume for now... that the stock V20 uses the same default filter as the V30... For those with a v30 you can see what that is in the filter selection screen. I dont have a v30 so I am not sure what that is. My guess is a linear phase filter with fast rolloff ..cause that is what all the other ESS DACs I have seen or owned default to.

Too bad you can't select your filter of choice, it really can help smoothing or sharpening treble which is essential to get good pairing with some IEMs.
But hey, they don't let you set up output power, so I guess digital filters is too much to ask. It is already extremely uncommon with actual DAPs (I've mostly seen seen it on Cayin and Lotoo DAPs).

 

[fjhuerta]

Too bad you can't select your filter of choice, it really can help smoothing or sharpening treble which is essential to get good pairing with some IEMs.
But hey, they don't let you set up output power, so I guess digital filters is too much to ask. It is already extremely uncommon with actual DAPs (I've mostly seen seen it on Cayin and Lotoo DAPs).

The Fiio X5iii lets you select the digital filter, too.

 

[jt25741]

I will assume for now... that the stock V20 uses the same default filter as the V30... For those with a v30 you can see what that is in the filter selection screen. I dont have a v30 so I am not sure what that is. My guess is a linear phase filter with fast rolloff ..cause that is what all the other ESS DACs I have seen or owned default to.

http://www.lg.com/uk/support/solutions/mobile/v30/headphones

apparently per this post on this page:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lg-v30.858933/page-103

The default is "sharp". Sharp is linear phase fast roll-off. It is not apodizing. I think this is a good general choice, as slow tends to sound a bit too bright --- and short may lack a bit of detail to get better impulse response and leading edge definition/naturalness.

 

[chowmanfu]

Just a little love letter to the V20.

I often take for granted how good this little phone is. Then I try out some other gear like the FIIO X7ii and realize that this phone does 99% of the things that other gear does, but is also my phone.

Its not perfect, but it's as close to perfect as I've ever gotten with a phone.

My fear is that it's a one of a kind right now. And should LG decide to give up on the v series, I'm stuck lugging around a DAP again.

Don't leave me v20

V20 has a replaceable battery. You can give it four times more life. The V20 is better than the V30 because the V30 has fixed battery.

You can buy a V20 from Asia, dual SIM, and unlocked. No bull with the rooting.

 

[fjhuerta]

A third LG V20 is coming my way. Maybe the third time will be the charm. Right now, I'm pretty happy with my Fiio X5iii + A5 combination. We'll see.

 

[tienbasse]

A third LG V20 is coming my way. Maybe the third time will be the charm. Right now, I'm pretty happy with my Fiio X5iii + A5 combination. We'll see.

It's a matter of priorities: I find the X5iii inferior to V20 in many ways: unnecessarily cumbersome UI, signature that lacks the body of V10/V20, subpar autonomy, and a balanced output that doesn't bring anything over the SE output.

 

[maxh22]

It's a matter of priorities: I find the X5iii inferior to V20 in many ways: unnecessarily cumbersome UI, signature that lacks the body of V10/V20, subpar autonomy, and a balanced output that doesn't bring anything over the SE output.

I agree with you about the UI, leaves some to be desired. But I actually prefer the x5iii to the V20 by a large margin, the Fiio is just much more engaging and sweet to me while the V20 is a little... boring in many ways. Viper does a great job fixing that for me btw but even then I prefer the Fiio, different strokes for different folks .

 

[fjhuerta]

It's a matter of priorities: I find the X5iii inferior to V20 in many ways: unnecessarily cumbersome UI, signature that lacks the body of V10/V20, subpar autonomy, and a balanced output that doesn't bring anything over the SE output.

I sold my V10 before getting the X5, and I sometimes do wonder if the V10 was better. I always loved the V10, no matter what.

One thing I suppose the X5 will do better is power. By itself I find it a bit weak, but with the A5, things change. They power everything I have with tons of authority.

 

[cirodts]

I had x5ii then I took the v10, v10 was superior and I sold x5ii, now I have the v20 and I heard x5iii, the v20 has a greater soundstage, a better presentation, a fantastic detail and not fatigue listening.
Currently I have an AR M2 sincerely prefer the v20 because more natural airy and detailed.
The v20 is great with my 225e and hd681 evo.

 

[Mmurin]

I created a pink noise 24/96 FLAC, and loaded it on my phone. Then I played it back, and analyzed it with a SB 24/96 card, and TrueRTA 24oct.

The Fiio X5iii, the Galaxy S8+ and the LG V10 hit 48 KHz with ease.

The LG V20 dropped off like a rock from 18 KHz onwards, no matter what I did, and no matter what player I used.

I tried to reply your test with RMAA, as explained here

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...urements-in-post-3-tutorial-in-post-2.800208/

with the mobile loaded with sennheiser ie80 (small load)

Guess what, same result as you with all players, i.e.roll-off beyond 18kHz. I would say that this falls beyond audible frequencies.
One notable exception: aimp (audiotrack method) rolls off way before 18 kHz, and shows better stereo crosstalk values, compared to the other players.
I guess what we are seeing here is some software tuning.

I also tried a test for the V20 with higher demanding heaphones and a 75 ohm impedance adapter in the measurement loop.
Same frequency response as with stock player.
There where signs of amplifier suffering (high distorsion), but with better crosstalk values.
I guess this is a hint the V20 is optimized for high impedance, high efficiency headphones.

Interesting thing 1: the only value seriously affected when switching the dac off was stereo crosstalk, which probably means that really the V20 makes a difference for high impedance loads.
Interesting thing 2: I compared the results with my old lumia 820, using foobar for windows phone. The test shows a marked roll-off similar to aimp for the V20, but if the wasapi option is chosen the rolloff frequency increase, as in the other players for the V20.

Conclusions:
1- the DAC - software interface problems are more common than we think
2- still not sure this HF rolloff at 18 +kHz is audible
3- the roll-off for Win phone foobar without wasapi is clearly audible
4- I definitely would like some feedback from the more expert members of this community
5- probably the V20 is best performing with high impedance, high efficiency headphones.

 

[fjhuerta]

I tried to reply your test with RMAA, as explained here

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...urements-in-post-3-tutorial-in-post-2.800208/

I also did the test with RMAA. And I got the same results as you did!!!!!

Here's the thing that should worry us.

1) I've seen other test results of the LG V20 where it goes above 20 KHz, and hits 48KHz with a 96 KHz sample rate.
2) My own older LG V20 went past 20 KHz, but it had pretty high distortion figures.
3) My even older LG V10 hit 48KHz, with ultra low distortion (far lower than my Galaxy)

I'm left to believe a software update, or a specific LG V20 model is different.

Yes. The roll-off is audible. The main difference between the LG V10 Snapdragon DAC, and the ESS DAC, was that the ESS DAC rolled off quicker.

Think about it like this. Why do you want an extraodinary DAC, when high resolution files play worse than 44.1/16 ones???

I'll get my LG V20 soon, and will run some new tests. Regardless, our units should go higher than 18 KHz... much higher.

I still have my wife's V20, so I can compare units.

But your post leads me to believe a software update did something to the audio architecture.