LG V20 Sound Quality

[hanskey]

The main risk of rooting is that in a carrier locked phone they have the legal right to brick your device, if and when they detect root hijinx.

There's always a way to root, but there's also always some way the carriers can detect and break your expensive device for you.

It even happens to unlocked phones at times and you should never attempt root on a carrier-locked phone in the US.

They won that case already guys and have every legal right to destroy your device, except those that have been unlocked, and the trade-off from the US courts is that they are now required by law to unlock a phone when the user asks, once it's been fully paid for.  However, you still have to actually call your carrier and instruct them to unlock your phone and have it fully paid off.

Or you can always buy one that comes unlocked in the first place and keep your fingers crossed that they don't brick it on accident, because they are inept tools that don't even slightly care what happens to customers.

 

[ljnew]

  The main risk of rooting is that in a carrier locked phone they have the legal right to brick your device, if and when they detect root hijinx.

There's always a way to root, but there's also always some way the carriers can detect and break your expensive device for you.

It even happens to unlocked phones at times and you should never attempt root on a carrier-locked phone in the US.

They won that case already guys and have every legal right to destroy your device, except those that have been unlocked, and the trade-off from the US courts is that they are now required by law to unlock a phone when the user asks, once it's been fully paid for.  However, you still have to actually call your carrier and instruct them to unlock your phone and have it fully paid off.

Or you can always buy one that comes unlocked in the first place and keep your fingers crossed that they don't brick it on accident, because they are inept tools that don't even slightly care what happens to customers.

There's a risk, but part of rooting is gaining access or admin access for your device.  Depending on someones skill level or determination you can remove all of the carrier bloatware.  Especially so they can't track you.  
 
For example, by hacking tmobile android you can turn your mobile wifi into a full home wifi because they can't track or stop your usage.
 
Also, there's a us996 carrier unlocked version.
 
Moral of the story is everything can be hacked.  It's your device and you can do whatever you want with it!  
 
Edit:  Practically speaking, I root every single device I have and never had any problems.

 

[warrior1975]

Same here. I've rooted many devices without issue during root. It's fairly safe and easy for the most part due to the good peeps at XDA.

 

[hanskey]

Too risky for me at $800+, but seriously good for you brave souls!

 

[ljnew]

  Too risky for me at $800+, but seriously good for you brave souls!

ebay already down to $400 

 

 

[Oo Meitar oO]

@hanskey , Hey man. whtich audio player are you using on your v20? I saw you mentioned shuttle+ eariler as a player that will utilize the quad dac, where did you get this info? i remember i read in reddit that the developer of shuttle said it will only use the snapdragon chip or something. 

 

[hanskey]

I mostly use PowerAmp, because most of my collection is regular ol' MP3 or lossless 16/44.1 PCM.  It appears that all music player apps on the V20 re-sample regular lossless redbook streams to 16/48 based on eio's testing and I'm with @eio that the SoX resampler in PowerAmp is probably one of the best resamplers, so might as well use it.  I use Shuttle+ for my hires tracks currently, though I have Google Play as well and I should try it.  My AT&T version didn't come with stock LG player in a rare instance of over-minimizing bloatware.
 
I got the info on Shuttle+ fully supporting the ESS DAC from a list made by a guy on XDA who directly tested a bunch of music player apps for the V10 and found a few that could reproduce ultrasound above 24 KHz (up 88.2 KHz) from his test track when he recorded the output of the V10 through the headphone via his PC and Audacity.  I noticed that in Shuttle+ there is a EQ that is labeled "Snapdragon", so I use the one built into the app instead thinking that might cause re-sampling.  By measuring ultrasound above 24KHz, he proved those apps aren't down-sampling hires to 16/48 on the V10. 

His list includes:
ZPlayer
PlayerPro
Shuttle+
LG stock music player
Google Play Music
ES File Explorer
(from: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=63917712&postcount=7)

I personally think it's safe to assume that the V10 and the V20 have the same issue.  On the V20, LG pre-applied the Hifi DAC fixing-app for the V10 so when you enable "Hifi Quad DAC" and have a set of headphones plugged in, that mini-app directs all audio streams to the ES9218 regardless of the bit-depth and sample rate of the music player app's output audio stream.  This is known to be the case for both phones.  On both the V10 and the V20, when the Android audio API is queried, only 48KHz appears as a supported sample rate, which appears to be what the Snapdragon is limited to (Neutron developer and other devs have confirmed this directly).  Unfortunately, really clever music player apps actually pay attention to the supported sample rates listed in the Android API and so only see 48KHz as a supported rate, which is for the Snapdragon DAC, not the ESS DACs.  Therefore, even though no audio stream will be sent to the Snapdragon DAC in "Hifi" mode thanks to LG's special enabling app, those apps unfortunately re-sample to 16/48, because that's the only supported sample rate found through the Android audio API.  Again, this is consistent for both the V10 and V20 as well.

That said, I've been asking for someone to following up on his V10 testing and prove or disprove that the list for the V10 applies to the V20 as well, and a guy at XDA said he would test some out.  I would, especially after I found these sweet test tones tracks to use (http://www.audiocheck.net/testtones_highdefinitionaudio.php), but I don't think any of my PC audio input A-to-D's can record ultrasound frequencies.

If you haven't bought any of the above, I'd wait and try the free ones (stock/Google Play/etc) until testing confirms the list.  If you have some of the above, an aux cable, and Audacity (or similar PC software for recording) you could do a little testing yourself with the test tones above.  It's got sweeps, chirps, etc., so you just take the H/O of the V20 to the audio input on your PC, play the test tracks and record the signal with Audacity/whatever.  This won't work if your audio input doesn't support sample rates above 48KHz (see below at the edit).

Edit:  I'd have to go and buy a hires usb audio input device, because this PC has NO audio inputs!!

 

[ouatitw]

I was considering upgrading from my V10 purely on sound quality purposes but further to the disappointing output graphs posted by eio on P97 comparing the V20 and V10 headphone output i'm not so sure now ?
 
Those of you who have made the change from the V10 can you explain or describe the difference in sound you are experiencing is it a step up in the sound quality dept with and without the high impedance adapter trick ?
 
Im guessing most will have sold on their old V10's and cant do a direct comparison however would you still have made the upgrade based on sound quality now you have listened to both handsets ?

 

[bjaardker]

  I was considering upgrading from my V10 purely on sound quality purposes but further to the disappointing output graphs posted by eio on P97 comparing the V20 and V10 headphone output i'm not so sure now ?
 
Those of you who have made the change from the V10 can you explain or describe the difference in sound you are experiencing is it a step up in the sound quality dept with and without the high impedance adapter trick ?
 
Im guessing most will have sold on their old V10's and cant do a direct comparison however would you still have made the upgrade based on sound quality now you have listened to both handsets ?

I sat in the Verizon store for 2 hours doing a side by side with the v10 and v20 before I took the plunge. The biggest difference I heard was that the v10 was slightly warmer than the v20. The v20 had more sparkle which gave the perception of a wider soundstage. In general the v20 was just more analytical sounding than the v10. This was consistent across the normal and Aux listening modes.

 

[howdy]

I sat in the Verizon store for 2 hours doing a side by side with the v10 and v20 before I took the plunge. The biggest difference I heard was that the v10 was slightly warmer than the v20. The v20 had more sparkle which gave the perception of a wider soundstage. In general the v20 was just more analytical sounding than the v10. This was consistent across the normal and Aux listening modes.

So which one did you buy?

 

[Oo Meitar oO]

I mostly use PowerAmp, because most of my collection is regular ol' MP3 or lossless 16/44.1 PCM.  It appears that all music player apps on the V20 re-sample regular lossless redbook streams to 16/48 based on eio's testing and I'm with @eio that the SoX resampler in PowerAmp is probably one of the best resamplers, so might as well use it.  I use Shuttle+ for my hires tracks currently, though I have Google Play as well and I should try it.  My AT&T version didn't come with stock LG player in a rare instance of over-minimizing bloatware.

I got the info on Shuttle+ fully supporting the ESS DAC from a list made by a guy on XDA who directly tested a bunch of music player apps for the V10 and found a few that could reproduce ultrasound above 24 KHz (up 88.2 KHz) from his test track when he recorded the output of the V10 through the headphone via his PC and Audacity.  I noticed that in Shuttle+ there is a EQ that is labeled "Snapdragon", so I use the one built into the app instead thinking that might cause re-sampling.  By measuring ultrasound above 24KHz, he proved those apps aren't down-sampling hires to 16/48 on the V10. 


His list includes:
ZPlayer

PlayerPro

Shuttle+

LG stock music player

Google Play Music

ES File Explorer

(from: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=63917712&postcount=7)


I personally think it's safe to assume that the V10 and the V20 have the same issue.  On the V20, LG pre-applied the Hifi DAC fixing-app for the V10 so when you enable "Hifi Quad DAC" and have a set of headphones plugged in, that mini-app directs all audio streams to the ES9218 regardless of the bit-depth and sample rate of the music player app's output audio stream.  This is known to be the case for both phones.  On both the V10 and the V20, when the Android audio API is queried, only 48KHz appears as a supported sample rate, which appears to be what the Snapdragon is limited to (Neutron developer and other devs have confirmed this directly).  Unfortunately, really clever music player apps actually pay attention to the supported sample rates listed in the Android API and so only see 48KHz as a supported rate, which is for the Snapdragon DAC, not the ESS DACs.  Therefore, even though no audio stream will be sent to the Snapdragon DAC in "Hifi" mode thanks to LG's special enabling app, those apps unfortunately re-sample to 16/48, because that's the only supported sample rate found through the Android audio API.  Again, this is consistent for both the V10 and V20 as well.


That said, I've been asking for someone to following up on his V10 testing and prove or disprove that the list for the V10 applies to the V20 as well, and a guy at XDA said he would test some out.  I would, especially after I found these sweet test tones tracks to use (http://www.audiocheck.net/testtones_highdefinitionaudio.php), but I don't think any of my PC audio input A-to-D's can record ultrasound frequencies.


If you haven't bought any of the above, I'd wait and try the free ones (stock/Google Play/etc) until testing confirms the list.  If you have some of the above, an aux cable, and Audacity (or similar PC software for recording) you could do a little testing yourself with the test tones above.  It's got sweeps, chirps, etc., so you just take the H/O of the V20 to the audio input on your PC, play the test tracks and record the signal with Audacity/whatever.  This won't work if your audio input doesn't support sample rates above 48KHz (see below at the edit).


Edit:  I'd have to go and buy a hires usb audio input device, because this PC has NO audio inputs!!

Thanks for the clarification!

 

[eio]

  I was considering upgrading from my V10 purely on sound quality purposes but further to the disappointing output graphs posted by eio on P97 comparing the V20 and V10 headphone output i'm not so sure now ?
 
Those of you who have made the change from the V10 can you explain or describe the difference in sound you are experiencing is it a step up in the sound quality dept with and without the high impedance adapter trick ?
 
Im guessing most will have sold on their old V10's and cant do a direct comparison however would you still have made the upgrade based on sound quality now you have listened to both handsets ?

subjectively i found the V20 to be cleaner, smoother than V10, more defined in the mid range, more coherent.
but also lacks impact/control in the sub bass, and has a tighter sound stage.
this is on se846, which has exceptionally low impedance (5~10 ohms) and superb sub bass performance that can magnify the difference in it.
 
and V20 has virtually no interference at all. V10 on the contrary has minor LCD interference and strong USB interference.

 

[maxh22]

  and V20 has virtually no interference at all. V10 on the contrary has minor LCD interference and strong USB interference.

 
Can you elaborate?

 

[eio]

   
Can you elaborate?

V10's LCD interferece is 60hz based low-to-mid harmonics, it's quite minor and only perceptible on highly sensitive headphones, and it disappears when the screen is off.
USB interference is quite loud, should be easy to pickup by ear. it disappers when USB is not connected.

 

[maxh22]

  USB interference is quite loud, should be easy to pickup by ear. it disappers when USB is not connected.

 
 
When you say usb interference are you talking about when connecting an external dac?
 
Don't recall hearing any kind of interference from the V10 unless I was toggling 4G LTE on/off with an external dac connected.