[fran]

This stuff has me thinking a bit.....

The main difference between the LD2 and LD2+ was a) different pre tubes, and b) the preamp capability. I and many others have the LD2 and haven't seen the arcing problem, never saw it mentioned even once in relation to LD2, although it uses the same 4P1S tubes. So I wonder are these tubes being "overdriven" to allow use as a preamp? I wonder could a persons LD2+ be stepped back to a LD2 and avoid this problem (assuming you wouldn't miss the preamp capability and that you had enough interest to do it)?

Also, before I got my LD2, I watched for ages the reactions. The LD2 went through 4 versions until its where its at now, using different tubes, 1b2, 1k2 AFAIK, different capacitors and so on. It seems that to my eyes this V4 has been pretty reliable.... 2nd hand buyers take note! I wonder if this will be the same story with the LD2+, ie go through a few versions until it settles down...

Fran

 

[PYROphonez]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fran This stuff has me thinking a bit..... The main difference between the LD2 and LD2+ was a) different pre tubes, and b) the preamp capability. I and many others have the LD2 and haven't seen the arcing problem, never saw it mentioned even once in relation to LD2, although it uses the same 4P1S tubes. So I wonder are these tubes being "overdriven" to allow use as a preamp? I wonder could a persons LD2+ be stepped back to a LD2 and avoid this problem (assuming you wouldn't miss the preamp capability and that you had enough interest to do it)? Also, before I got my LD2, I watched for ages the reactions. The LD2 went through 4 versions until its where its at now, using different tubes, 1b2, 1k2 AFAIK, different capacitors and so on. It seems that to my eyes this V4 has been pretty reliable.... 2nd hand buyers take note! I wonder if this will be the same story with the LD2+, ie go through a few versions until it settles down... Fran

According to the guys over there, they say it was a batch of bad tubes. Hopefully that is just it, and all of these people are pushing it.

I have two sets of tubes heading my way. I'll make sure to give a report, hopefully a positive one and have no issues with arching.

Only time will tell.

 

[hYdrociTy]

[size=medium]TEH LIST[/size]

[size=xx-small]Name
-Problem
+Status[/size]
_______________________________________

[size=x-small]hYdrociTy[/size][size=xx-small]
-- Extreme arching and pop, killed left channel in chained amp + IEMS
++ Replacement Tubes with only minor pop on left + use "nothing plugged in" startup technique, now no problems

[size=x-small]3x331m[/size]
-- Amp does not work at all
++ Solution pending....(they should repair amp, and ship it back for free)

[size=x-small]GotNoRice[/size]
-- Left tube began to arc after several months and hundreds of hours of usage. Tube would only arc when I turned the unit off and back on in a short amount of time, otherwise normal operation.
++ David sent me a free pair of 4P1S tubes and I have not had any problems since.

[size=x-small]golgi[/size]
-- Had blue flash and a pop in the headphones on power up
++ Sword_yang sent him new tubes and they still have this quality but much less so, and is going to get in the habit of powering up the amp without the phones plugged in

[size=x-small]Funkdeal[/size]
-- Right tube archs and flashes blue with pop on startup
++ Starts up amp without headphones plugged in, gets smaller fizzle and no pop

[size=x-small]systema[/size]
-- Left Tube pop and arch. Plugs in with suicide headphones at startup. Now blew the headphone.
++ Now in a shelf. Waiting for a fix?

[/size]
_______________________________________
_______________________________________

 

[3x331m]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hYdrociTy I would like to add that sometimes little things get spiraled out of control, and the mob mentality takes effect. Right now I believe I am the only one whos amp actually did harm to anything plugged in, namely another amp, and one side of my superfies. Headroom exchanged the amp, and superfi repaired that iem, and little tube sent me replacements and some collateral for my troubles. It seems all these companies have did all they could within reason. I also don't think a company would try to protect its customers and think of them first, but none of that can justify potentially bankrupting itself. I would honestly like to know who actually suffered damages, besides the occasional scary pop and flash, which can be easily remedied by either Turning the amp on without cans plugged in, let it sit one minute and then plug headphones in. or Turn on the amp with some ghetto expendable cans in I think the former option presents itself as the best solution, as you have to let the amp warm up anyway so having phones plugged in while its on is pretty useless. It will not bother anyone that much, and if you are turning the amp on and off and find this method a hassle then you are not following proper tube care technique. I don't think of that solution as a hassle or even a minor inconvinence at all. It is second nature now, and I hope it will be second nature for all of you as well. With the exception of course to whoevers tubes blew away outright, you guys just wait for the new tubes and then follow the above technique. I am positive this will solve most if not all of the issues. The only thing I can still think of that bothers everyone is that they think they got shafted by the new release, but if you know anything about computer hardware etc, then know that we get shafted every day for much more money. Asking for some kind of major exchange or discount would be unreasonable. A 25% off or free shipping on the other hand won't and I hope they honor at least that. For the record, I am going to compose a list of problems, and then ask you all to pm or reply with your problem, specifically, so that we can actually view this whole issue in perspective.

Personally, I find it a total turn-off by now. I've decided to use my allowance for a new RSA portable. I'm in line for the release of the Tomahawk, and the next one might be one of Dr. Xin's amp. if he'd ever get out of "Developing mode".

If I can't fix my half dead ld2+, I can still keep it as a low-efficiency personal heater at my workstation. When my kids are old enough and ready to learn something about business, I can use it as teaching aid to help them to learn something about business ethics.

I hope that they'd do something for the rest of the ld2+ owners.

Thanks for your offer.

 

[hYdrociTy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3x331m Personally, I find it a total turn-off by now. I've decided to use my allowance for a new RSA portable. I'm in line for the release of the Tomahawk, and the next one might be one of Dr. Xin's amp. if he'd ever get out of "Developing mode". If I can't fix my half dead ld2+, I can still keep it as a low-efficiency personal heater at my workstation. When my kids are old enough and ready to learn something about business, I can use it as teaching aid to help them to learn something about business ethics. I hope that they'd do something for the rest of the ld2+ owners. Thanks for your offer.

Heh you're not the only one. My next purchase is gonna be a portaphile instead..or hornet...or glite. the ++ just doesnt do it in terms of value anymore. Maybe if I get a K1000, then ill get the III+, but other than that the only other item I can recommend from them is the LDM+. The III+ and micro+ seems to be the good buys....

 

[PYROphonez]

Personally, after I'm done with my LDII+, (hopefully 2-3 years) I'll sell it to get a bit of money back, and then buy a new amp, since I feel that there are better tube amps out there that have better synergy with my K701's.

 

[GotNoRice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hYdrociTy For the record, I am going to compose a list of problems, and then ask you all to pm or reply with your problem, specifically, so that we can actually view this whole issue in perspective.

GotNoRice
- Left tube began to arc after several months and hundreds of hours of usage. Tube would only arc when I turned the unit off and back on in a short amount of time, otherwise normal operation.
+ David sent me a free pair of 4P1S tubes and I have not had any problems since.

 

[golgi]

I've had the amp for 3 months. I did have the blue flash and a pop in the headphones on power up. Sword_yang sent me new tubes and they still have this quality but much less so. So, I'm just going to get in the habit of powering up the amp without the phones plugged in. Still, I'm very pleased with the sound quality of this amp for the money and really don't regret buying it.

 

[systema]

I believe that the arcing is not the problem itself but they symptoms of a problem. I DO appreciate that LD team is working hard to resolve some of the problems we may have (e.g. sending in new tubes). However, these seemed to be more or less like a band-aid solution to the issue. The tubes could be replaced, I've no doubt about that. But how long before they will go out again? ARCING IS DAMAGING TO THE TUBES, even if you plug in a cheapo headphones everytime you turn it on. The discharge can damage the plate and worn them out prematurely. We're talking probably months before you need to change your tubes again here, not a year or so. And how about those people who are using the LDII+ as a preamp? Do they need to reach to the rear to unplug their power amps everytime before they can turn on the LDII+?

I had a dud set of tubes which shown arcing in about 200 hrs of use, I'm v. glad that Yang sent in another set of the power tubes in a very short notice without any charges. However, the new set of tubes is starting to arc after about 2 weeks of use as well, and worse thing is, the arc's much bigger than before, I can even see them in the right channel and even between my HFI-500DJ1.

I agree on what hYdrociTy had said, if you had a problem with LDII+ before, post it out, so that we know what's going on out there. From what I see at the moment, most of the users first saw small arcings in the left tube and then gradually spread to the right tube as well.

However, I do think that LD team should offer aftersale support on its product, not in the form of discounting new products, but something like a fix or a patch (or even a DIY parts kit with instructions on how to fix the issue), because the customers deserve a working unit without design flaw after they paid in full. And I don't really think the LD team would like to take the risk where a majority of their overseas market may vapourize overnite, rite? But of course, that's only my opinion, you can disagree on that.

systema's symptoms
- arcing in the first set of tube (left channel)
+ Yang sent me a new replacement set
+ no arcing in the first few days running the new tubes
- arcings reappeared in left channel after about a week of running
- arcings became worse in both channel in another week
- arcings were observed in headphones occasionally
- left channel of my Ultrasone DJ1 was killed when I plug it to the LDII+ WHEN THE LDII+ WAS ON ALREADY (updated at 22:00 on 8th Nov, 2006 (GMT +9:30))

 

[Funkdeal]

i have experienced arcing problems with my amp as well. My right power tube flashes blue only when i first power it up. i tried powering up the amp with no headphones in. there was a much smaller blue "fizzle" rather than "flash", and no popping noise. also, the "smaller" right tube appears to glow brighter than the left one..

 

[GoStones]

I think what most people are unsatisfied about is that the new tubes are just a temporary solution and knowing this was the case, Little Dot went on to creating the LD2++ without solving the intial problem. This makes the LD2+ owner feel like they've been used as guinea pigs. Its great that we know that there's R&D going on, but nonetheless its probably how a lot of the owners feel. My question is, if the arcing keeps occuring every 2 months after new tubs are replaced (seems like this is happening for a couple of people), are they going to keep supplying us with tubes for the lifetime of the amp? I personally am not asking for something like this but it shows how much of a temporary solution this is. As systema said, it would be nice to have some sort of real fix.
Sorry if I'm just repeating stuff, but I wanted to clarify some things.

 

[systema]

Just some updates to what happened to me, my LDII+ and my headphones.

Just come back from work and plug in my LDII+ to enjoy some music. Turning on the LDII+ with an elcheapo headphone, big zap, didn't bother me too much. Remove that and plug in my Ultrasone HFI500 DJ1, a bit of poping noise when plugging the DJ1 in. Tried to play some music, the left channel was dead. I was wondering if that may be the LDII+'s left channel, so I tried the DJ1 at the headphone amp of my motu, but, still complete silence at left channel, nope, it's the left channel of my DJ1 that's dead. Although I saw once or twice of arcing at the headphone when I turned the LDII+ on with the DJ1 plugged in, I never thought my headphone can still get murdered when I plug it AFTER SWITCHING ON THE LDII+.

I've decided to shelf the LDII+ until a fix came out. And I think I deserve an answer from the LD team on why this could happen.

I was a slightly unhappy customer when I first saw the announcement of the LDII++ along with the LD team's attitude, NOW I AM AN ANGRY CUSTOMER. My other headamps may be cheap and sound like crap (Behringer AMP800) or bland (MOTU 828 Mk2), but I don't need to worry about whether my headphones will get killed or not when I'm using them.

 

[crazy_nate]

Quote:

Originally Posted by systema Just some updates to what happened to me, my LDII+ and my headphones. Just come back from work and plug in my LDII+ to enjoy some music. Turning on the LDII+ with an elcheapo headphone, big zap, didn't bother me too much. Remove that and plug in my Ultrasone HFI500 DJ1, a bit of poping noise when plugging the DJ1 in. Tried to play some music, the left channel was dead. I was wondering if that may be the LDII+'s left channel, so I tried the DJ1 at the headphone amp of my motu, but, still complete silence at left channel, nope, it's the left channel of my DJ1 that's dead. Although I saw once or twice of arcing at the headphone when I turned the LDII+ on with the DJ1 plugged in, I never thought my headphone can still get murdered when I plug it AFTER SWITCHING ON THE LDII+. I've decided to shelf the LDII+ until a fix came out. And I think I deserve an answer from the LD team on why this could happen. I was a slightly unhappy customer when I first saw the announcement of the LDII++ along with the LD team's attitude, NOW I AM AN ANGRY CUSTOMER. My other headamps may be cheap and sound like crap (Behringer AMP800) or bland (MOTU 828 Mk2), but I don't need to worry about whether my headphones will get killed or not when I'm using them.

Youch, that makes me scared to plug my k701's into my ld2+. Mine has been working perfectly fine for the past 3-4 months, I think I'm going to roll in some other tubes to ensure nothing happens..

 

[hYdrociTy]

list updated..

 

[penguindude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by systema Just some updates to what happened to me, my LDII+ and my headphones. Just come back from work and plug in my LDII+ to enjoy some music. Turning on the LDII+ with an elcheapo headphone, big zap, didn't bother me too much. Remove that and plug in my Ultrasone HFI500 DJ1, a bit of poping noise when plugging the DJ1 in. Tried to play some music, the left channel was dead. I was wondering if that may be the LDII+'s left channel, so I tried the DJ1 at the headphone amp of my motu, but, still complete silence at left channel, nope, it's the left channel of my DJ1 that's dead. Although I saw once or twice of arcing at the headphone when I turned the LDII+ on with the DJ1 plugged in, I never thought my headphone can still get murdered when I plug it AFTER SWITCHING ON THE LDII+. I've decided to shelf the LDII+ until a fix came out. And I think I deserve an answer from the LD team on why this could happen. I was a slightly unhappy customer when I first saw the announcement of the LDII++ along with the LD team's attitude, NOW I AM AN ANGRY CUSTOMER. My other headamps may be cheap and sound like crap (Behringer AMP800) or bland (MOTU 828 Mk2), but I don't need to worry about whether my headphones will get killed or not when I'm using them.

wow, this is freaking scary. Systema, when did you purchase your LD2+? I thought they claimed that their recent production of Ld2+ includes a "voltage suppressor" that could prevent what happened to hYdrociTy.