[GRod]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wmcmanus I was one keystroke away from buying the refurbished pair of ESL 950's now available from amazon.com but then decided to do a google search to learn a little more about them. In doing so, I stumbled across the reviews from Audio Review: http://www.audioreview.com/cat/headp...8_2750crx.aspx BTW, I normally don't give much weight to what people say at Audio Review, because quite frankly, a lot of fools post there. Anyway, what caught my attention mostly were the 2 guys who posted about problems that they've had with the ESP 950's. There is a lifetime warranty, which is pretty cool, but sending them back and forth 4 or 5 times doesn't sound like fun. It's only my guess, but probably a good one, that the "open box" item on Amazon.com for $364 which is listed under the refurbished section, has had the problems that these guys at Audio Review are talking about. The negative reveiws about the quality/repair issues that I was referring to are on the 2nd page of the above link, which shows reviews 6-10. Reviewers #6, #8 and #10 were the ones who had trouble. So I'll probably take a pass...

Hi,

I've owned the ESP-950's for about 12-13 years, albeit with limited use. However, I've never, not once, had any problem with them "squealing," or anything else. They have never needed service or repair. They have never needed to be sent back to Koss for any reason.

I wonder if these guys who gave them negative reviews in Audio Review knew how to use them, if they treated them right. Did they drive them too loudly, etc.?

As an aside: when the ESP-950's were first introduced, they had a MSRP of $2000. After some time, that dropped to $1000 and they were generally available for about $750. Sometime after that, the selling price dropped to $500. I bought mine from J&R during a special sale or promotion, and paid $449 or $459 for them.

I love my 950's and plan on keeping them forever. It's good to know that Koss has a lifetime warranty in the event that they ever do need servicing.

GRod

 

[kartik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeg kartik - Your profile says "cardiologist." You need to come to Florida. Lots and lots of oldsters, and cardiologists offices are overflowing. You'd be so busy making $$$$ that you'll never have a chance to plug the 950. Just kidding, of course, and thanks for your honesty. I just ordered the 950, refurbished, for $372. Probably just some scratches on the box. I'll probably be discussing it a lot in the future.

Unfortunately, cardiologist doesn't say it all. I should say academic cardiologist, which makes me as wealthy as a church mouse. It also kills most of my prospects of moving to anywhere. Congrats on your purchase. Hope you enjoy it as much as I have.

Wayne,
You're absolutely right about the concerns about the Koss' reliability. I had the same concerns, particularly because jpelg actually returned his ESP-950s because of driver issues. Nonetheless, Kevin gilmore still is using his and has been for some years now. I figured that since I had no previous experience with electrostats and these were easily returnable for a low asking price that I'd take the plunge and try them out, rather than buy a more expensive stax that I'd be stuck with. I'd had relliability issues with a Grado SR-325 in less than 2 years of owning one, so I figured at least this one is returnable

Guru,
Didn't realise you were in texas. Sorry.

 

[jpelg]

The static problem with the ESP950's is well-documented. Doing a search both here and on Headwize will show several members dealing with it. It happens with some people. Not all, but many. One member (in both places), edstrelow has had extensive ownership experience with the ESP950's with the stock amp, and has posted much on them. Probably more than anyone. He reports getting good results using a better external power supply. Check his posts out.

I owned the ESP950's about two years ago, purchased from Amazon also. My impressions were that they were 'OK' sounding, but something didn't quite sound right. Dunno, maybe I just wasn't used to the 'electrostatic' sound. They were definitely bass-light, but that could have been the amp, and a better one could, maybe, have helped in that regard. Mids and highs were very nice, though - very revealing of source, so make sure you have a good one.

But the uniqueness of their cable connector (read: different from Stax), made it impossible for me to audition them with any of the other electrostatic amps available. Dr. Gilmore was, and to my knowledge, is the only person to fashion an adapter for the Koss up til now. The ESP950's do come with an extension cable that could be butchered to make an adapter, but it was beyond my DIY skills at the time and Kevin has noted recently that it is no easy task for those challenged in that area.

I noted some build quality issues too. They are made entirely of plastic, and have a very cheap feel. That's not totally bad, in and of itself, as many (most) headphones these days are. But the drivers hook onto the headband (they are packed separately), and one of the drivers on my pair wouldn't lock into place securely onto the metal hook. It would fall off with the slightest jossle. Very frustrating.

The drivers have a unique shape. They are long, sort of a rectangle with rounded edges. They are different from the Stax Lamda (SR202/303/404) line, which are different from the Omegas, which are different from Baby O's (HE60), which are different from the Big O (HE90). Nothing to note there, except that their fit may or may not be to your liking. That's a personal thing. Also the earpiece padding on the ESP950's is not extremely plush, and I do note that any of the other electrostatic earspeakers I mentioned above are more comfortable. Sorry Koss.

Koss' lifetime warrantee is bound to give potential purchasers a nice warm feeling. But with the prospect of returning my headphones for repeated repairs (even for just the postage cost), along with the dissatisfying (stock) sound, I decided to return them after a month's trial - something I could not have done if I hacked the cable, bought a different amp, and still didn't like the sound.

While of course I cannot say with absolute certainty, I would not expect to get HE90-level performance from the ESP950's. I am sure that if Kevin Gilmore, the only person to have used the Koss' with a non-stock amp, thought they approached Omega-2 levels he would have posted so long ago. Despite his very brief posts stating they are "very good", his reluctance to comment further speaks volumes. My guess (and it is admittedly just a guess), is that you probably would get a good Stax Lamda-level (SR303/404) performance from the ESP950's, and would have gone thru a lot of bother to do so. HE90-level? It's a nice idea, but "TANSTAAFL" I always say.

My recommedation is that if you have ~$400 to play with, and it is not going to be your only system, go for it and see what happens with a better amp. Otherwise, if that is a sizeable amount of cash for you (and for most of us it is!), I'd stick with even a basic Stax system that fits your budget, and try the cans with a better amp when a Head-Fi meet comes your way (the Stax plug will probably already work!).

Just my two cents.

 

[mikeg]

jpelg - Thanks for your wonderful posting. I'll definitely follow-up regarding the writeup of edstrelow's experience with the 950's. In view of the fact that Kevin Gilmore has apparantly been the only person to evaluate the 950 with a separate amp., I'm especially excited about doing so. It's fun to do something new, and hopefully I'll have lots to report. As for having ~$400 to play with, I'm willing to do so because I look at it as $$$ for recreation. Lots of people on Head-Fi spend many multiples of that amount on recordings, while I try to keep my collection of CDs to <150.

 

[kartik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpelg The static problem with the ESP950's is well-documented. Doing a search both here and on Headwize will show several members dealing with it. It happens with some people. Not all, but many. One member (in both places), edstrelow has had extensive ownership experience with the ESP950's with the stock amp, and has posted much on them. Probably more than anyone. He reports getting good results using a better external power supply. Check his posts out. I owned the ESP950's about two years ago, purchased from Amazon also. My impressions were that they were 'OK' sounding, but something didn't quite sound right. Dunno, maybe I just wasn't used to the 'electrostatic' sound. They were definitely bass-light, but that could have been the amp, and a better one could, maybe, have helped in that regard. Mids and highs were very nice, though - very revealing of source, so make sure you have a good one. But the uniqueness of their cable connector (read: different from Stax), made it impossible for me to audition them with any of the other electrostatic amps available. Dr. Gilmore was, and to my knowledge, is the only person to fashion an adapter for the Koss up til now. The ESP950's do come with an extension cable that could be butchered to make an adapter, but it was beyond my DIY skills at the time and Kevin has noted recently that it is no easy task for those challenged in that area. I noted some build quality issues too. They are made entirely of plastic, and have a very cheap feel. That's not totally bad, in and of itself, as many (most) headphones these days are. But the drivers hook onto the headband (they are packed separately), and one of the drivers on my pair wouldn't lock into place securely onto the metal hook. It would fall off with the slightest jossle. Very frustrating. The drivers have a unique shape. They are long, sort of a rectangle with rounded edges. They are different from the Stax Lamda (SR202/303/404) line, which are different from the Omegas, which are different from Baby O's (HE60), which are different from the Big O (HE90). Nothing to note there, except that their fit may or may not be to your liking. That's a personal thing. Also the earpiece padding on the ESP950's is not extremely plush, and I do note that any of the other electrostatic earspeakers I mentioned above are more comfortable. Sorry Koss. Koss' lifetime warrantee is bound to give potential purchasers a nice warm feeling. But with the prospect of returning my headphones for repeated repairs (even for just the postage cost), along with the dissatisfying (stock) sound, I decided to return them after a month's trial - something I could not have done if I hacked the cable, bought a different amp, and still didn't like the sound. While of course I cannot say with absolute certainty, I would not expect to get HE90-level performance from the ESP950's. I am sure that if Kevin Gilmore, the only person to have used the Koss' with a non-stock amp, thought they approached Omega-2 levels he would have posted so long ago. Despite his very brief posts stating they are "very good", his reluctance to comment further speaks volumes. My guess (and it is admittedly just a guess), is that you probably would get a good Stax Lamda-level (SR303/404) performance from the ESP950's, and would have gone thru a lot of bother to do so. HE90-level? It's a nice idea, but "TANSTAAFL" I always say. My recommedation is that if you have ~$400 to play with, and it is not going to be your only system, go for it and see what happens with a better amp. Otherwise, if that is a sizeable amount of cash for you (and for most of us it is!), I'd stick with even a basic Stax system that fits your budget, and try the cans with a better amp when a Head-Fi meet comes your way (the Stax plug will probably already work!). Just my two cents.

I agree with most of the things jpelg raises here. Some points of difference: The bass is very dependent on the amp. When used with X-feed, the bass is fairly thunderous. The power supply is an important tweak, when powered through the regular wall socket its performance is mediocre. However when powered by the BPT-1 using the wall wart provided it sounds much cleaner. A month may not be the optimal timeframe to evaluate this headphone. It takes much longer for the "strange" stock sound to go away.

 

[mikeg]

kartik - Although I won't be using a BPT-1 to power the 950, I'll be using the PS Audio Ultimate Outlet, in combination with their Juice Bar. Hopefully this power source will suffice to optimize the performance of the ESP-950. BTW, what is this X-Feed component that you use to enhance the bass output of your 950? As for jpelg's statment that "TANSTAAFL", I hope that the multi-thousands of dollars charged for some electrostatic headphones merely equate to the ridiculous cost of an atrociously expensive baloney sandwich.

 

[jpelg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeg I hope that the multi-thousands of dollars charged for some electrostatic headphones merely equates to the ridiculous cost of an atrociously expensive baloney sandwich.

LOL! That would be cool, mike! I would be happy if there were just more quality electrostatic entries in the $1000-$2000 range, other than the Omega-2's. The O2's are great, and they look like bargains in comparison to the HE90's. But they're just one flavor. They shouldn't be the only high-end game in ElectrostatTown.

 

[mikeg]

Actually had to look up the meaning of "TANSTAAFL" in a little book that I have on Internet lingo. Guess one is never too old to learn. Regards, and thanks for your postings. And, I hope that all of this effort provides some useful information for our Head-Fi community.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpelg LOL! That would be cool, mike! I would be happy if there were just more quality electrostatic entries in the $1000-$2000 range, other than the Omega-2's. The O2's are great, and they make the HE90's look like bargains in comparison. But they're just one flavor. They shouldn't be the only high-end game in ElectrostatTown.

 

[kartik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeg kartik - Although I won't be using a BPT-1 to power the 950, I'll be using the PS Audio Ultimate Outlet, in combination with their Juice Bar. Hopefully this power source will suffice to optimize the performance of the ESP-950. BTW, what is this X-Feed component that you use to enhance the bass output of your 950? As for jpelg's statment that "TANSTAAFL", I hope that the multi-thousands of dollars charged for some electrostatic headphones merely equate to the ridiculous cost of an atrociously expensive baloney sandwich.

X-feed is the crossfeed device that Pinkfloyd used to make for Headfiers. It is based on Jan Meier's cross feed design posted on the meier audio website. Maybe someone has one of these lying around and is willing to sell.

 

[jpelg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kartik The bass is very dependent on the amp. When used with X-feed, the bass is fairly thunderous...X-feed is the crossfeed device that Pinkfloyd used to make for Headfiers. It is based on Jan Meier's cross feed design posted on the meier audio website...

That crossfeed unit is passive, yes? Meaning there is no amplification circuit inside right?

If so, how does it increase the bass response? What is it doing to those low-end frequencies?

 

[kartik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpelg That crossfeed unit is passive, yes? Meaning there is no amplification circuit inside right? If so, how does it increase the bass response? What is it doing to those low-end frequencies?

It is passive. I don't know how but the difference is remarkable. There is some loss of sparkle, but considering that CDs are harsh to start with and the koss is not exactly tame in the highs dept. I'll live with this. The bass has that nice thumpy feel to it and really shakes the head nicely.

P.S. I don't see this effect with the Grado SR-325. Maybe you and Lan should come over some time again and try listening to it.

 

[edstrelow]

I have had this set for about 10 years so I know them well. I have also owned about a dozen other electrostatics and one set of speakers so I know the beasts in general.

I use these as in a secondary system. My main system uses the Stax 404/SRM3.

I think they are very good phones for the money and can be significantly improved by using an external regulated power supply. I currently use an Elenco 3 amp dc supply which only cost about $60.00.

With the supplied transformer the sound is ok, but with the bigger supply, bass and dynamics really come alive. I have not really made a direct comparison with the Stax using the same sources since getting the Elenco. Nevertheless, my impression is that the 950's with the big power supply give better dynamics and less treble etch/harshness. The 404 probably has better deep bass but also a more edgy treble with some music. It has a cleaner sound, probably due to the big class A amplifier, although after about an hour the 950's get closer in sound quality.

The 950 is especially good with rock/pop, because of the better dynamics, reduced high frequency etch and what seems like a smooth midrange.

My first 950's showed some squealing, but I recently got a new set under Koss' amazing lifetime warranty and there was no squeal. In any event I think I know how to fix the problem. There was some current leakage of the electrostatic electrodes to the cable, which ran too close. You pull the cable a few mm\away to solve this.

 

[mikeg]

edstrelow - I would like to try using an Elenco 3 amp dc supply, in order to improve the performance of the ESP-950. Is this a variable voltage supply that you set to 9 volts, or is it a fixed 9 volt supply? The only Elenco supplies that I've found on the internet are variable voltage units.

 

[kartik]

Mike,
How does the ESP-950 sound with the cross-feed filter?

 

[mikeg]

After about another 50 hours of burn-in I'll provide a brief review, with and without the cross-feed filter. I'll then try to do the same with a bigger power supply, such as the Elenco 3 amp one. At this point I'm just waiting for edstrelow's response to my preceding question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kartik Mike, How does the ESP-950 sound with the cross-feed filter?