[r31ya]

Thought this would be fun to post here...

Judging from his recent comparison of Castor duo,
Tonedeafmonk is partial to warmer, thicker tone.
thinner sounding symphony will not fit is preferred sound sig

---
another review

 

[Kumonomukou]

The brand's big claims, such as that it has no competitors under $1000, confuse people. That's why I have great expectations in my mind. Assuming that Thieaudio V16 divinity, one of the best IEMs in the world, has 32 fixtures, one wants to try the 24 fixtures in Kz, and this is exactly why I am curious. Thieaudio V16 divinity is my dream, but accessing it will be quite difficult and expensive, so it will take a long time for me to access it.

There's not such a thing as the best in the world. It's all preferences, maybe it's one the best for you, and that's pretty awesome. Also if an IEMs require any sort of saving up for, better off trying them on before making rush decisions, really sometimes you'd be surprised!

 

[Marrogwar]

Also if an IEMs require any sort of saving up for, better off trying them on before making rush decisions, really sometimes you'd be surprised!

I wanted Mest mk3 and last weekend i was able to try them. Well, i dont want it anymore. So yes, its very important to try those expensive iems before buying

 

[ScrofulousBinturong]

I got the BA10 a bit ago in trade from @icnaiwhimor1975 and finally got some quality time with them this week. They're really good! The detail is sharp, the bass is present, fast, and tight, and the signature isn't particularly V shaped. I do wish the soundstage were a wider and the imagine a bit more accurate. But for busy rock/metal tracks, it's now one of my favorites.

 

[DynamicEars]

I couldn't get the BA5 since I skipped them 5 years ago? So instead I just got my AS24 switch version on the way as I want to try "budget" all BA IEMs. Heard the technicalities are great and seems the tuning isn't bad too (especially for KZ). 2024 so far have been bad to me. I managed to not buy as many audio gears like past years in 2023 and been great with my oath. But 2024 I bought WM1A, trn conch, simgot ew200, and recently got hidden treasure sony XBA-N3 and couldn't resist to try (and mod?) KZ AS24. Just bought them today, my baddd my baddd..

 

[r31ya]

I couldn't get the BA5 since I skipped them 5 years ago? So instead I just got my AS24 switch version on the way as I want to try "budget" all BA IEMs. Heard the technicalities are great and seems the tuning isn't bad too (especially for KZ). 2024 so far have been bad to me. I managed to not buy as many audio gears like past years in 2023 and been great with my oath. But 2024 I bought WM1A, trn conch, simgot ew200, and recently got hidden treasure sony XBA-N3 and couldn't resist to try (and mod?) KZ AS24. Just bought them today, my baddd my baddd..

worst come to worst a good base for modding all BA with new gen Bellsings BAs.

 

[JennyKZ]

For a long time, there has seemed to be a phenomenon within the entire HIFI industry or among enthusiasts, where people would first analyze the curves and then judge the sound quality of headphones, or judge the sound quality of headphones based on these curves. It seems very scientific, but unfortunately, it has become a kind of misguidance. On the one hand, looking at the differences between machines and human ears, the curves tested by machines are like two-dimensional, while the complex human ear is like a three-dimensional, and the variables of this carrier are complex and diverse because the structure of the human ear and body is as unique as DNA, with each person potentially being different. Additionally, listening experiences are also influenced by individual preferences, habits, and even age.
On the other hand, looking at the testing device and audio source equipment, the accuracy of different testing devices varies greatly. Even under the same conditions using IEC711 coupler, it is greatly affected by different software algorithms and the environment during user testing. Different curves will also be produced under different driving tests at different power levels. This is an undeniable fact. Even if users contact the official software and hardware companies official to inquire about the differences, they will still receive the same answers, as mentioned above or example same in the video.
At the same time, taking the recent new product KZ Symphony as an example, before we officially released the product and announced the curves, even during the research and development stage, we had actually used hobby testing software and hardware to test it. We did find differences between amateur equipment and our curves in some frequency bands. The main difference lies in the dip peaks, which are the crossover points between dynamic and planar driver, resulting in measurements at that position being incompatible with hobby equipment. Also, there is a small resonance peak at 1.5kHz on the hobby equipment.
Therefore, the "only curve" theory is not true. Such an obsession will often prompt users to look at curves, which will often produce corresponding effects in their hearts. But the actual listening experience still needs to be experienced by users themselves. Of course, we must respect the different listening preferences of users from different countries, different groups, and different uses. It is impossible for any product to satisfy all users. This is the meaning of the existence of multiple brands and multiple different IEMs.
We humbly accept users' needs for different listening sensations, but we also ask users to treat differences rationally and calmly, respect differences, and not be taken advantage of by hateful reviewers , account users , group admin who spread hatred. Pride and Prejudice will not make their views last long. Let music be a pure land and enjoy music.

 

[evasb]

For a long time, there has seemed to be a phenomenon within the entire HIFI industry or among enthusiasts, where people would first analyze the curves and then judge the sound quality of headphones, or judge the sound quality of headphones based on these curves. It seems very scientific, but unfortunately, it has become a kind of misguidance. On the one hand, looking at the differences between machines and human ears, the curves tested by machines are like two-dimensional, while the complex human ear is like a three-dimensional, and the variables of this carrier are complex and diverse because the structure of the human ear and body is as unique as DNA, with each person potentially being different. Additionally, listening experiences are also influenced by individual preferences, habits, and even age.
On the other hand, looking at the testing device and audio source equipment, the accuracy of different testing devices varies greatly. Even under the same conditions using IEC711 coupler, it is greatly affected by different software algorithms and the environment during user testing. Different curves will also be produced under different driving tests at different power levels. This is an undeniable fact. Even if users contact the official software and hardware companies official to inquire about the differences, they will still receive the same answers, as mentioned above or example same in the video.
At the same time, taking the recent new product KZ Symphony as an example, before we officially released the product and announced the curves, even during the research and development stage, we had actually used hobby testing software and hardware to test it. We did find differences between amateur equipment and our curves in some frequency bands. The main difference lies in the dip peaks, which are the crossover points between dynamic and planar driver, resulting in measurements at that position being incompatible with hobby equipment. Also, there is a small resonance peak at 1.5kHz on the hobby equipment.
Therefore, the "only curve" theory is not true. Such an obsession will often prompt users to look at curves, which will often produce corresponding effects in their hearts. But the actual listening experience still needs to be experienced by users themselves. Of course, we must respect the different listening preferences of users from different countries, different groups, and different uses. It is impossible for any product to satisfy all users. This is the meaning of the existence of multiple brands and multiple different IEMs.
We humbly accept users' needs for different listening sensations, but we also ask users to treat differences rationally and calmly, respect differences, and not be taken advantage of by hateful reviewers , account users , group admin who spread hatred. Pride and Prejudice will not make their views last long. Let music be a pure land and enjoy music.

I agree that FR graphs don't tell the whole picture, but the reality is that we can't buy every release under the sun. FR graphs can be useful to "get" a general profile of the IEM and if this match our preferences.

Anyway, I would love that KZ do a squig like Moondrop did and you guys would show the graph with your TOTL equipment to the user to properly judge if the tuning is in tune with their preferences.

 

[PhonoPhi]

For a long time, there has seemed to be a phenomenon within the entire HIFI industry or among enthusiasts, where people would first analyze the curves and then judge the sound quality of headphones, or judge the sound quality of headphones based on these curves. It seems very scientific, but unfortunately, it has become a kind of misguidance. On the one hand, looking at the differences between machines and human ears, the curves tested by machines are like two-dimensional, while the complex human ear is like a three-dimensional, and the variables of this carrier are complex and diverse because the structure of the human ear and body is as unique as DNA, with each person potentially being different. Additionally, listening experiences are also influenced by individual preferences, habits, and even age.
On the other hand, looking at the testing device and audio source equipment, the accuracy of different testing devices varies greatly. Even under the same conditions using IEC711 coupler, it is greatly affected by different software algorithms and the environment during user testing. Different curves will also be produced under different driving tests at different power levels. This is an undeniable fact. Even if users contact the official software and hardware companies official to inquire about the differences, they will still receive the same answers, as mentioned above or example same in the video.
At the same time, taking the recent new product KZ Symphony as an example, before we officially released the product and announced the curves, even during the research and development stage, we had actually used hobby testing software and hardware to test it. We did find differences between amateur equipment and our curves in some frequency bands. The main difference lies in the dip peaks, which are the crossover points between dynamic and planar driver, resulting in measurements at that position being incompatible with hobby equipment. Also, there is a small resonance peak at 1.5kHz on the hobby equipment.
Therefore, the "only curve" theory is not true. Such an obsession will often prompt users to look at curves, which will often produce corresponding effects in their hearts. But the actual listening experience still needs to be experienced by users themselves. Of course, we must respect the different listening preferences of users from different countries, different groups, and different uses. It is impossible for any product to satisfy all users. This is the meaning of the existence of multiple brands and multiple different IEMs.
We humbly accept users' needs for different listening sensations, but we also ask users to treat differences rationally and calmly, respect differences, and not be taken advantage of by hateful reviewers , account users , group admin who spread hatred. Pride and Prejudice will not make their views last long. Let music be a pure land and enjoy music.

I am about to be done with this hobby, but I could not help to reply.
Three parts to respond to your comment:
1) I do agree that judging the frequency response is not fully adequate and may not tell a full story.
2) I did purchase KZ Symphony (did not bother to share my experience before), here I can mention that Symphony does sound to my ears close to the reported frequency response. Symphony is an interesting V-shaped IEM to my limited perception. I personally do prefer Symphony over Rhapsody with its loose bass to my limited taste, but the V- (or U) shape of Symphony is obvious. Bass is very much likeable - stong, precise and punchy. Highs are quite nice and crisp to my ears, but likely too much for many/most.
Then the mids are notably less there. Those who liked ZSN pro 2 are more likely to.appreciate Symphony. I did like ZSN pro 2 as a very good iteration of ZSN line, but it is a more of a "special taste" IEM for me (Pianist is a great win in this direction in my book, and a treasure for listening many classical recordings similar to A10 that I do love).
At the same time, Krila and Castor Harman are more moderately tuned "V" and are more conventional IEMs for average tastes, respectively.
3) Your reference to HBB video and all your previous collaborations with this bullying "influencer" is what puts me very strongly off KZ I hoped your could knew better in China...

P. S. Editing for typos, no AI

 

[evasb]

I don't know why the need to create such a narrative. I can see some people liking Symphony, with a more distant midbass, Variations has a similar "tuck" in the same area, but we need to accept that this is not liked by the majority of people.

As a company, you guys need to accept that not everything will be universally liked, making these type of arguments will not help KZ...

 

[r31ya]

I don't know why the need to create such a narrative. I can see some people liking Symphony, with a more distant midbass, Variations has a similar "tuck" in the same area, but we need to accept that this is not liked by the majority of people.

having a more of "specialty" iem is not a bad thing, symphony, pianist, hell krilla, and other have their own strength but unfortunately a bit butchered with unclear marketing.
"Best under $1000" is not a good marketing. especially if you tried to market specialty iem as all rounder "best for all".

Hell, i don't see any EDX pro X marketing (we have edx lite controversy) but few who publically known to have, it claims its a great iem.

 

[Mr.HiAudio]

It is worth paying tribute to the KZ company for their contribution to the affordable segment of headphones, because thanks to them the price of headphones has decreased and you can listen to generally good sound for not expensive, but strange statements in the spirit of “the best for 1000” seem unnecessary because now anyone can buy them and understand that this is not at all true.

@JennyKZ your big problem is that you release a certain good product, everyone likes it, then you start releasing the same model with changes for the worse.
Here's my personal example:

KZ PR1 HIFI - WOW superior sound
KZ PR1 Pro - good sound
KZ PR2 - so so sound
KZ PR3 - OMG wt hell

Lately, for some reason, you don’t want to listen to users, they even contact you with help in audio editing, but you don’t listen and ignore them. Why release a new module every week?
And then you say that reviewers and ordinary users are deceiving and slandering you, maybe you should listen and not lose your audience?

 

[ScrofulousBinturong]

we also ask users to treat differences rationally and calmly, respect differences, and not be taken advantage of

This is audio, though--rationality, calm, and not being taken advantage of are not a thing in this world.

Kz gets a lot of crap for a lot of reasons, and it really is too bad, because from my vantage point it just looks like you're experimenting a lot and selling those experiments at very reasonable prices. People don't have to even acknowledge your existence if your products aren't their thing, but for some reason there's a bit of a bandwagon of anti Kz hate some people seem to take as a badge of connoisseurship or ethics or what have you.

Whether one likes KZ products or not, it's impossible to deny the massive impact you've had in forcing the big brands to up their game, and in delivering quality sound for people who can't afford a lot.

Now if you could take a breather and not release quite as many models under KZ and CCA, that may not be a bad idea

 

[o0genesis0o]

It is worth paying tribute to the KZ company for their contribution to the affordable segment of headphones, because thanks to them the price of headphones has decreased and you can listen to generally good sound for not expensive, but strange statements in the spirit of “the best for 1000” seem unnecessary because now anyone can buy them and understand that this is not at all true.

@JennyKZ your big problem is that you release a certain good product, everyone likes it, then you start releasing the same model with changes for the worse.
Here's my personal example:

KZ PR1 HIFI - WOW superior sound
KZ PR1 Pro - good sound
KZ PR2 - so so sound
KZ PR3 - OMG wt hell

Lately, for some reason, you don’t want to listen to users, they even contact you with help in audio editing, but you don’t listen and ignore them. Why release a new module every week?
And then you say that reviewers and ordinary users are deceiving and slandering you, maybe you should listen and not lose your audience?

Second all of these good and fair points.

To add: the CCA Trio was a great IEM and thoroughly enjoyable from both casual and critical listening perspectives, for both classical and commercial music. If KZ/CCA ever listens to any input, I would put a vote on using this IEM as a case study / reference.

 

[DynamicEars]

For a long time, there has seemed to be a phenomenon within the entire HIFI industry or among enthusiasts, where people would first analyze the curves and then judge the sound quality of headphones, or judge the sound quality of headphones based on these curves. It seems very scientific, but unfortunately, it has become a kind of misguidance. On the one hand, looking at the differences between machines and human ears, the curves tested by machines are like two-dimensional, while the complex human ear is like a three-dimensional, and the variables of this carrier are complex and diverse because the structure of the human ear and body is as unique as DNA, with each person potentially being different. Additionally, listening experiences are also influenced by individual preferences, habits, and even age.
On the other hand, looking at the testing device and audio source equipment, the accuracy of different testing devices varies greatly. Even under the same conditions using IEC711 coupler, it is greatly affected by different software algorithms and the environment during user testing. Different curves will also be produced under different driving tests at different power levels. This is an undeniable fact. Even if users contact the official software and hardware companies official to inquire about the differences, they will still receive the same answers, as mentioned above or example same in the video.
At the same time, taking the recent new product KZ Symphony as an example, before we officially released the product and announced the curves, even during the research and development stage, we had actually used hobby testing software and hardware to test it. We did find differences between amateur equipment and our curves in some frequency bands. The main difference lies in the dip peaks, which are the crossover points between dynamic and planar driver, resulting in measurements at that position being incompatible with hobby equipment. Also, there is a small resonance peak at 1.5kHz on the hobby equipment.
Therefore, the "only curve" theory is not true. Such an obsession will often prompt users to look at curves, which will often produce corresponding effects in their hearts. But the actual listening experience still needs to be experienced by users themselves. Of course, we must respect the different listening preferences of users from different countries, different groups, and different uses. It is impossible for any product to satisfy all users. This is the meaning of the existence of multiple brands and multiple different IEMs.
We humbly accept users' needs for different listening sensations, but we also ask users to treat differences rationally and calmly, respect differences, and not be taken advantage of by hateful reviewers , account users , group admin who spread hatred. Pride and Prejudice will not make their views last long. Let music be a pure land and enjoy music.

Wow Jenny, with respect, I'm one of the earlier user of measurement rig before squid link has been created, before lot of reviewers using it, and I'm so familiar with the measurement rig behavior. I'm totally understand with the differences between 1 to another rig, effected with the whole system, the PC, the soundcard, even the eartips used and how deep the insertion is, and add another one of two x-factor from rig unit variations, dirt or dust problem. If you're saying the whole rig isn't up to the KZ standard, at least we the community can make a cue point as standard, a measurement rig that have similar results among one to another although of course with slightly different results because of the rig chain, including PC / laptops, soundcard, cables, eartips etc, but at least they will show similarities like A have slightly roll of trebles on his rig, then his all measurement will have slightly roll of trebles be it from budget sets or up until TOTL sets.

I've been playing around with lot of IEMs, from less than $10, up until $8,500 and I can "hear" the tonality and tuning from the FR graph, like 70% roughly of how it sounds. Still there are some IEMs that have different tonality but maybe just like more trebles or lower trebles from the FR, and depends on the driver characteristics, like EST drivers appear softer than the FR looks compared to more aggressive BAs. Of course there are things that we cant measure. The technicalities, separation, the bass tightness, and things like dampened sound or raw sounds. In multidriver IEMs, If drivers are overlapping, the sine sweeps will only record the highest response from the set, so all the drivers that produce sounds below the highest FRs wont be appear on the graph, so If multidriver have 1 very low upper extension for example, but overlapped by fullrange driver, that 1 driver is literally useless, except, that driver is having the similar db with that fullrange, but with just slightly below it. The FR? will appear the same.

I bought so many KZs too, I think more than 50% of every KZ release model since years back, since ED9, ZST, ZS5 until today's generation like D-fi, Krilla, PR2, Castor, and I also have AS24 switch, the KZ Flagship coming. And guess what? I measured them "just right" with my measurement rig, and have similar result with other reviewer. With my TOTL sets, I also have similar measurement with other reviewers, Z1R, Mest, Odin, Monarch, etc. It's kinda weird and sounded like a hard excuse to me when only KZ Symphony is "wrong" with the "hobby measurement rig", unless the new Symphony is using new technology that never been used before. If it using 13.2mm planar that you use with PR series, it should be measured just fine, like my PR2, I measured it just fine. And so does with the DDs.

I also an audio enthusiast that do lot of mods, here examples with the Castor and PR2 and Krilla, the latest from KZ :










I really like some of them, and I have to admit you guys have better tuning, slightly evolving from time to time, if 1 of the release turn out to be a flop, just accept it dont try to hard to defend it, just let go and do another one, a better one. We are here as audio community, sharing hobbies, sharing fun, review things, going with silly adventure together finding "Endgame Set" that don't exist. I praised KZ because of relatively good quality with very value price and KZ are evolving, I even think the race to the giant killer with very affordable price, is on KZ with highest chance among others, I mean it.
Sorry if my words are a bit harsh maybe, but I can't stand but just to give my 2 cents. Cheers! I'm waiting for my AS24 on my door.

I agree that FR graphs don't tell the whole picture, but the reality is that we can't buy every release under the sun. FR graphs can be useful to "get" a general profile of the IEM and if this match our preferences.

Anyway, I would love that KZ do a squig like Moondrop did and you guys would show the graph with your TOTL equipment to the user to properly judge if the tuning is in tune with their preferences.

This is what I wanted to say also, the FR graphs is more like "synopsis" of the Movie, covering the how is the story going to be, without telling the whole details, fun, jumpscare, action scene and everything else. Whether you want to buy the ticket and watch the movie or not, it's up to you next, at least the synopsis will give you a hint about what are you going to watch.

KZ official squig will be nice idea too, sarcasm or not with TOTL rig it will be a very good idea.

Have a nice day all!