[MusicalChillies]

Final E500 for price being a bit over $20, does great job for mids/vocal/trebles, it’s not the price man. Or if vocal oriented, Final E1000($29), VR3000($79), ER2SE ($88) all do great jobs.

The main reason is because of old KZ products which uses Bellsing BA driver of #30095 with aggressive V tuning with many huge peaks and dips . KZ started to learn how to tune, and it’s showing the progress from ZSX > ZAX releases.

Thanks for the list.

It sort of is about price as I bet none of these use crossovers but it does look like things have progressed massively if you can tune the BA`s right.

Believe me, if you can give me a Westone 4 for under £100 I would bite your hand off.

 

[1clearhead]

Final E500 for price being a bit over $20, does great job for mids/vocal/trebles, it’s not the price man. Or if vocal oriented, Final E1000($29), VR3000($79), ER2SE ($88) all do great jobs.

The main reason is because of old KZ products which uses Bellsing BA driver of #30095 with aggressive V tuning with many huge peaks and dips. If that peaks/dips coincides with your resonating spots around 3khz/6khz/12khz, you will feel the sound is either hollow or extremely ear piercing.
KZ started to learn how to tune, and it’s showing the progress from ZSX > ZAX releases.

You said: "KZ started to learn how to tune, and it’s showing the progress from ZSX > ZAX releases.", which is not entirely true. And, I'm sure if 'slater' was around he'll vouch for what I'm saying, since we posted many KZ's from their beginning. They just weren't consistent with their products. For example, the KZ BA10 is no slouch. While being one of their earlier batches, they were well-balanced. They can give a lot of today's IEM's a run for the money. Yes, I have the BA10. Probably, there's a list I can build since the beginning, but then again, I don't have the time to be here, because like many of us that have a job to attend to, that makes this my part-time hobby.

-Clear

 

[cappuchino]

EXTRA, EXTRA!!!

Just received some news from a KZ representative. She said the "boss" has brought up the topic of an electrostatic IEM project last week.

If I receive more details, I'll update you guys on the project!

*Edit: I also suggested that they drop the nozzle used in the newer releases like the DQ6.

 

[AmericanSpirit]

You said: "KZ started to learn how to tune, and it’s showing the progress from ZSX > ZAX releases.", which is not entirely true. And, I'm sure if 'slater' was around he'll vouch for what I'm saying, since we posted many KZ's from their beginning. They just weren't consistent with their products. For example, the KZ BA10 is no slouch. While being one of their earlier batches, they were well-balanced. They can give a lot of today's IEM's a run for the money. Yes, I have the BA10. Probably, there's a list I can build since the beginning, but then again, I don't have the time to be here, because like many of us that have a job to attend to, that makes this my part-time hobby.

-Clear

Ah yea some exceptions like AS12, BA10, some matured take. I’ve been following KZ over 5 years, from their very early clumsy ZS5, 2017 or so, you can open my spoiler, i have like over 10 KZs alined with their releases, from all those experiences I can say they seemed contatly obsessed with V shape for the most of the part.

 

[AmericanSpirit]

EXTRA, EXTRA!!!

Just received some news from a KZ representative. She said the "boss" has brought up the topic of an electrostatic IEM project last week.

If I receive more details, I'll update you guys on the news!

Omg!!! Regardless of what kind of IEM KZ EST would be like, as a long time KZ follower, count me in for the early bird

 

[AmericanSpirit]

Thanks for the list.

It sort of is about price as I bet none of these use crossovers but it does look like things have progressed massively if you can tune the BA`s right.

Believe me, if you can give me a Westone 4 for under £100 I would bite your hand off.

Again, TRI Starsea by any scale is a better Westone 4 under 100 £ W4 is just a medicore 4 driver IEM nowadays. Things changed over the decade.

 

[baskingshark]

Again, TRI Starsea by any scale is a better Westone 4 under 100 £ W4 is just a medicore 4 driver IEM nowadays. Things changed over the decade.

Gotta agree with this, I have a few midfi Shures and Westones and most modern day CHIFI can beat them for a fraction of the price. Unfortunately Shure and Westone haven't innovated much over the past few years, whereas the hungry CHIFI companies have evolved many leagues ahead. As of today, Shure is still selling the Shure SE215 after 16 years, it is still muddy and veiled as the first day I had it.

I dare say some multi driver hybrid KZs can hit almost the same sound quality as the Westone W30 and Westone 3 that I have, for 10% the price.

 

[seanwee]

Again, TRI Starsea by any scale is a better Westone 4 under 100 £ W4 is just a medicore 4 driver IEM nowadays. Things changed over the decade.

Gotta agree with this, I have a few midfi Shures and Westones and most modern day CHIFI can beat them for a fraction of the price. Unfortunately Shure and Westone haven't innovated much over the past few years, whereas the hungry CHIFI companies have evolved many leagues ahead. As of today, Shure is still selling the Shure SE215 after 16 years, it is still muddy and veiled as the first day I had it.

I dare say some multi driver hybrid KZs can hit almost the same sound quality as the Westone W30 and Westone 3 that I have, for 10% the price.

I've tried everything westone and Shure have to offer from the SE215 to KSE1500.

Never once have did I think that they were good sounding iems.

Their tuning is the product of an older era with too much colouration or "house sound" as some would like to call it.

If you're after a tuning that offers sound in the way it's meant to be heard, these are not for you.

 

[AmericanSpirit]

Gotta agree with this, I have a few midfi Shures and Westones and most modern day CHIFI can beat them for a fraction of the price. Unfortunately Shure and Westone haven't innovated much over the past few years, whereas the hungry CHIFI companies have evolved many leagues ahead. As of today, Shure is still selling the Shure SE215 after 16 years, it is still muddy and veiled as the first day I had it.

I dare say some multi driver hybrid KZs can hit almost the same sound quality as the Westone W30 and Westone 3 that I have, for 10% the price.

Yup, I pulled out the Legendary Ultimate Ears Triple.Fi 10 Pro, the one I used to love and got 4 pairs of those over the time. No matter kind of cables or eartips, DAPs I use, TF10Pro is just a dead hollow sounding extreme V shape that I may rate 40/100 by my scale now... it’s just thing of a past now... I’m pretty”shure” those old legacies won’t be lasting another 10 years from their current pace of innovation and offering, I’m not pointing out names, but most of those old legacies already sold their business to third parties already, just the brand names and same old legacies which doesn’t live up to modern competitive IEM market.

 

[baskingshark]

Yup, I pulled out the Legendary Ultimate Ears Triple.Fi 10 Pro, the one I used to love and got 4 pairs of those over the time. No matter kind of cables or eartips, DAPs I use, TF10Pro is just a dead hollow sounding extreme V shape that I may rate 40/100 by my scale now... it’s just thing of a past now... I’m pretty”shure” those old legacies won’t be lasting another 10 years from their current pace of innovation and offering, I’m not pointing out names, but most of those old legacies already sold their business to third parties already, just the brand names and same old legacies which doesn’t live up to modern competitive IEM market.

Well it is survival of the fittest. And I think these boutique brands that have for years been selling overpriced gear, are getting big pressure from covid and the evolution of CHIFI IEMs.

No doubt boutique brands spend a lot on marketing, perhaps R&D and QC and licensing. CHIFI isn't the most robust in licensing and patents and QC, but I have had my fair share of QC problems with these westones and shures (and they are made in China BTW). But anyways even if one CHIFI QC is bad, I can still buy a few more cheap CHIFI and that won't even add to the cost of one boutique brand IEM, which also isn't too far away in sound.

It is really good for us in this hobby though, market pressure has forced down prices, and we can have a small taste of audiophiledom without needing to sell a kidney.

 

[AmericanSpirit]

Well it is survival of the fittest. And I think these boutique brands that have for years been selling overpriced gear, are getting big pressure from covid and the evolution of CHIFI IEMs.

No doubt boutique brands spend a lot on marketing, perhaps R&D and QC and licensing. CHIFI isn't the most robust in licensing and patents and QC, but I have had my fair share of QC problems with these westones and shures (and they are made in China BTW). But anyways even if one CHIFI QC is bad, I can still buy a few more cheap CHIFI and that won't even add to the cost of one boutique brand IEM, which also isn't too far away in sound.

It is really good for us in this hobby though, market pressure has forced down prices, and we can have a small taste of audiophiledom without needing to sell a kidney.

Yes, old legacies are selling dinosaur IEMs with technology 5 years behind the scenes for 5 to 10 times the price, grreat marketing, on Amazon.com those dinosaurs get 2,3 thousands of 5 star reviews

 

[1clearhead]

Ah yea some exceptions like AS12, BA10, some matured take. I’ve been following KZ over 5 years, from their very early clumsy ZS5, 2017 or so, you can open my spoiler, i have like over 10 KZs alined with their releases, from all those experiences I can say they seemed contatly obsessed with V shape for the most of the part.

Yea, you're right about the ZS5 being clumsy. I really liked the ZS5 and I still own two of them today. But, when I amped it up it would react strangely and clumsy almost sounding like it had a short between the DD and the BA 'causing the DD to lose bass. Though, I did not experience this with the ZS6 and ZS7. They are really good performers even up until today.

-Clear

 

[CK Moustache]

There is, actually. The CCA C10.

A very nicely tuned and relatively balanced (still V-shaped) 4 BA + 1 DD that's retailing for as low as US $25. Bass uncharacteristic of the usual KZ/CCA hybrid in that it's not overly emphasized, but with good resonance. Mids not pronounced or "shouty" but just rightly placed in the headstage. Treble that's really smooth yet resolving of detail. No purported "metallic" or harsh timbre. With your ideal eartips (in my case medium to wide-bore ones) providing the proper seal, the C10 would give you long, fatigue-free listening sessions at moderate volumes. It and the KZ E10 TWS are the highest-ranked KZ/CCA IEMs in Crinacle's list (C+).

I'm not sure if they were the right move given @MusicalChillies previous IEMs include the Westone W4 (that I am familiar with as I own the W4R), InEar StageDiver SD-3 and NuForce HEM1 (that I own as well). All of them are heading into the smoother/darker direction in the highs, and while I own several Knowledge Zenith IEMs as well (including the AS06 and AS10 - I really like both), I doubt that the CCA (don't have them, but their treble response looks too bright based on what he's looking for) would be the right choice. I still think that the EARNiNE EN210 would be a splendid choice given the context (warm, natural, smooth, dark-ish tilt, but I'm not sure whether they are still making them or not - and as I remember, international customers would need to contact the company directly in order to acquire the IEMs).

 

[courierdriver]

Tbth,; brands like KZ, CCA, BLON, NICEHCK, KBEAR, MOONDROP, etc are what have brought me back into the audio hobby. The truth is: it's no longer necessary to spend $500-1000+ for exceptional SQ. I'm incredibly happy about that; especially coming from high end, speaker based audio. For the price of a single pair of under $500/ pair speakers; I can have multiple pairs of iems with different sound signatures. Dac/amps and DAPs cost way less than home audio components. Even upgraded cables can be obtained for less than $20. Totally enjoying my journey in personal/portable audio.

 

[SybilLance]

I'm not sure if they were the right move given @MusicalChillies previous IEMs include the Westone W4 (that I am familiar with as I own the W4R), InEar StageDiver SD-3 and NuForce HEM1 (that I own as well). All of them are heading into the smoother/darker direction in the highs, and while I own several Knowledge Zenith IEMs as well (including the AS06 and AS10 - I really like both), I doubt that the CCA (don't have them, but their treble response looks too bright based on what he's looking for) would be the right choice. I still think that the EARNiNE EN210 would be a splendid choice given the context (warm, natural, smooth, dark-ish tilt, but I'm not sure whether they are still making them or not - and as I remember, international customers would need to contact the company directly in order to acquire the IEMs).

Fair enough. However, if you have listened extensively to the C10 you'll discover that its apparent frequency response measurements ("...looks too bright...") are different from what you'd actually hear, as those who own or have owned the C10 would mostly agree. The phrase I used, "smooth yet resolving", is indeed an apt description of the C10 treble.

Anyway since @MusicalChillies posted his query in this thread, I was only too glad to recommend a KZ/CCA model that I own that does not have the unwanted harsh upper register. That it did contradict your own response to said query, is I believe incidental to the circumstance and not meant to cast any shade whatsoever on you or your post.