[PhonoPhi]

Hey, I know this has been asked before but I don't really feel like leafing through a 3346 page thread to find what I want. Could someone please outline the differences between the KZ ZSX and CCA C12.

Thanks

To put it in two words, as a digest, "it exists"

In few more words, the drivers of these KZ/CCA siblings are the same.

ZSX have a bit less midbass and the bass feels a bit tighter.

C12 have a bit more extended treble.

I personally prefer the treble of C12, the bass of ZSX, and ZSX overall.

ZSX fit is better (more secure, better seal) for me; the extra protruding part is only felt when wearing something on top.

 

[Thx1326]

I finally heard the ZSX... to me it was lacking in solid bass - just not natural and there was some "hissing" on some of the high end - such as high hats and snares. Friends of mine said the C12's were more natural sounding with clear clean highs and good solid bass. Now this is not a scientific review... just based on what I know so far. I have a set of C12's on the way (Friday) along with an upgraded 2.5mm balanced cable.

 

[Johnny Golden]

I finally heard the ZSX... to me it was lacking in solid bass - just not natural and there was some "hissing" on some of the high end - such as high hats and snares. Friends of mine said the C12's were more natural sounding with clear clean highs and good solid bass. Now this is not a scientific review... just based on what I know so far. I have a set of C12's on the way (Friday) along with an upgraded 2.5mm balanced cable.

Thanks, seems like C12 might be a bit better (I really dislike the zsx look but love the c12 look). Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the C12's when they arrive

 

[seanwee]

I debated for a while if i should post this as its not representative of how the iems will sound but admittedly i do like these kinds sound comparisons as a rough comparison of their presentation.



For iems its not as good but its awesome for comparing speakers especially if done right. Thats why i like DLXwillington's speaker comparisons, he records using a binaural mic.

 

[onlyteagan]

thinking of picking up either the AS10 or AS12 (always wanted to try a full BA IEM), will they be meaningful upgrade/sidegrade to my current gear? the Final Audio E3000 driven by the Fiio M7/Zishan Z2 DAP.

I mostly listen to Anime OSTs, Rock tracks like Bon Jovi, and some EDM here and there (Avicii & Daft Punk)

previous KZ Experience (ZST,ZS3,ZSN)-- didn't really liked the ZSN, found it to be too bright and fatiguing, bass is good though; Listened to the ZS7 before, didn't really liked it either, but it's mostly because of the size of the shells.

any advice is appreciated, thanks!

 

[RikudouGoku]

thinking of picking up either the AS10 or AS12 (always wanted to try a full BA IEM), will they be meaningful upgrade/sidegrade to my current gear? the Final Audio E3000 driven by the Fiio M7/Zishan Z2 DAP.

I mostly listen to Anime OSTs, Rock tracks like Bon Jovi, and some EDM here and there (Avicii & Daft Punk)

previous KZ Experience (ZST,ZS3,ZSN)-- didn't really liked the ZSN, found it to be too bright and fatiguing, bass is good though; Listened to the ZS7 before, didn't really liked it either, but it's mostly because of the size of the shells.

any advice is appreciated, thanks!

I believe that the A10/AS12 is even brighter than the ZSN, so probably not a good choice for you.

 

[onlyteagan]

oh... okay then, thanks for the heads up, any other recommendations then? perhaps from other brands? or should I just go and ask on another thread?

 

[PhonoPhi]

I believe that the A10/AS12 is even brighter than the ZSN, so probably not a good choice for you.

Oh, no!!
I have all 3.
AS10 and AS12 are the least treble-extended all-BAs of KZ and CCA, so they are definitely most fitting to those who prefer E3000.

They all-BAs are surely different: more resolution and "less natural" timbre, especially for AS12, where the treble is heavily damped.
The best bass to me - these two bass BAs beat a single Knowles to my taste.

AS10 were my first all BA and the reason why I collected all recent CCA and most KZ

I do enjoy AS12 with treble filters removed (more treble than A10/Tripowin), but it is rather opposite to common tastes. What I am sure a nice potential of AS12 is in moding those treble filters (and treble in general) to individual tastes.

I will be happy to answer any specific questions.

 

[RikudouGoku]

E3000 (blue)
ZSN PRO (he doesnt have the ordinary ZSN but should be close) (purple)
AS10 (green)

 

[RikudouGoku]

@PhonoPhi I mean no disrespect here, but arent you a treble head? If that is the case then maybe @onlyteagan should take your recs with a grain of salt because they seem to treble sensitive.

I actually dont know if there is any cheap full ba iem that isnt bright and even "harsh". But if you can go up then maybe the Audiosense DT200 can suit you well. Tansio Mirai TSMR3 also looks like a good one.

 

[baskingshark]

I actually dont know if there is any cheap full ba iem that isnt bright and even "harsh". But if you can go up then maybe the Audiosense DT200 can suit you well. Tansio Mirai TSMR3 also looks like a good one.

Hisenior B5+ is a 5 BA set that has treble roll off and is non fatiguing, about $70ish USD.

Audiosense DT200 yes is non fatiguing but more expensive at $150 USD. A few midfi all BA westones I used previously for stage monitoring were also pretty non fatiguing in the treble, though those were about $300 - 400 USD. I've not tried any pure BAs from KZ/CCA, so i think @PhonoPhi can advise better!

 

[PhonoPhi]

E3000 (blue)
ZSN PRO (he doesnt have the ordinary ZSN but should be close) (purple)
AS10 (green)

@PhonoPhi I mean no disrespect here, but arent you a treble head? If that is the case then maybe @onlyteagan should take your recs with a grain of salt because they seem to treble sensitive.

I actually dont know if there is any cheap full ba iem that isnt bright and even "harsh". But if you can go up then maybe the Audiosense DT200 can suit you well. Tansio Mirai TSMR3 also looks like a good one.

I also mean no disrespect but judging by the graphs and other people opinions may be significantly less instructive than direct experience.

I slowly developed my taste of treble coming from AS10, which I never heard people complaining of treble (rather than it is rolled off with preserving the resolution more or less).
My treble development also came with the violins in the house

Again, AS12 in its stock form so heavily dampened in treble that it should suit most people in this regard.

You know that those graphs are single-frequency sweeps, right?

P. S. Yes, there are non-harsh BAs, you just cut the treble (you can always remove something but not add)

 

[onlyteagan]

Oh, no!!
I have all 3.
AS10 and AS12 are the least treble-extended all-BAs of KZ and CCA, so they are definitely most fitting to those who prefer E3000.

They all-BAs are surely different: more resolution and "less natural" timbre, especially for AS12, where the treble is heavily damped.
The best bass to me - these two bass BAs beat a single Knowles to my taste.

AS10 were my first all BA and the reason why I collected all recent CCA and most KZ

I do enjoy AS12 with treble filters removed (more treble than A10/Tripowin), but it is rather opposite to common tastes. What I am sure a nice potential of AS12 is in moding those treble filters (and treble in general) to individual tastes.

I will be happy to answer any specific questions.

1)any difference in the detail retrieval between the AS10 and AS12? how's the soundstage for both of them? and their sound signature? since it's kinda hard to find impressions for the as10 and as12 (especially compared to one another-- so I'm really thankful for the treble comparison @PhonoPhi ), most reviews are out for the as16 -_-

2)The thing I really liked about the e3000s are their soundstage and warm signature. are there any members of the hybrid/BA lineup in KZ/CCA that will be similar/better in the soundstage and detail department?

 

[purplesun]

thinking of picking up either the AS10 or AS12 (always wanted to try a full BA IEM)...
I mostly listen to Anime OSTs, Rock tracks like Bon Jovi, and some EDM here and there (Avicii & Daft Punk)...
didn't really liked the ZSN, found it to be too bright and fatiguing...

IMHO, AS10 adds it own sound colouration. I prefer AS10 when listening to pre-2k music productions or watching TV using bluetooth. It adds some richness that was not in the original material. For me, I think Bon Jovi should sound good on AS10. The AS12 has a more transparent presentation and more balanced across the FR, whereas AS10 can be a bit deaf at higher trebles (eg: cymbals & such). For treble reference, the A10 & ZSN's treble were too strong for my ears. I think AS10 has a fuller sounding bass, but neither IEMs has the deep atmospheric bass of a well-driven DDs.

 

[SiggyFraud]

I also mean no disrespect but judging by the graphs and other people opinions may be significantly less instructive than direct experience.

I slowly developed my taste of treble coming from AS10, which I never heard people complaining of treble (rather than it is rolled off with preserving the resolution more or less).
My treble development also came with the violins in the house

Again, AS12 in its stock form so heavily dampened in treble that it should suit most people in this regard.

You know that those graphs are single-frequency sweeps, right?

P. S. Yes, there are non-harsh BAs, you just cut the treble (you can always remove something but not add)

TRN BA5 is a great example of a clear sounding, yet non-fatiguing, all BA set. Been listening to it for a week now, and had absolutely no issues with harshness. And I'm not a treble head