[khighly]

[quote name="danspy" url="/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/15075#post_13145843"]Hire some Measurements. ZST Original=Twisted ZS3 Original=Coaxial  ZST Silver=Braided The all Sound different, not because of ther dc Resistance.(dis LCR Meter Measures actually at 1 KHz AC)  Because of the different Builds.     [/quote]
 
There was a guy a few pages back that did all of the math and the differences between cables as measured by your LCR meter would result to something like a .00005dB increase. There is a lot of bunk science here. Cables change nothing except durability or style. It's all marketing.

 

[khighly]

For New ZST Owners:
 
If at first the ZST's have harsh highs and sound sibilant, give them about two days for the brain burn in to take control. Every time I switch from using the tennmak pros back to the ZST's I get harsh highs. After a day everything smooths out and becomes crystal clear. Don't let them go too soon, many people here love them and we keep adding new people to the ZST fanboy group

 

[ricemanhk]

  [quote name="danspy" url="/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/15075#post_13145843"]Hire some Measurements. ZST Original=Twisted ZS3 Original=Coaxial  ZST Silver=Braided The all Sound different, not because of ther dc Resistance.(dis LCR Meter Measures actually at 1 KHz AC)  Because of the different Builds.    

 
There was a guy a few pages back that did all of the math and the differences between cables as measured by your LCR meter would result to something like a .00005dB increase. There is a lot of bunk science here. Cables change nothing except durability or style. It's all marketing.
[/quote]

 
IIRC math that guy did was wrong.  He added the cable resistance to the IEM driver resistance when I believe it should be added to the output resistance. 
 
Still, I am of the camp who believes that while cables WILL change something, it's usually too imperceptible (too low SNR) to notice even on freq sweeps, let alone human ears.  Still, if the wire resistance gets high enough, then it will change/color the sound. 

 

[Mus1c]

Listening to the ATR, ATE (2 months), and Tennmak Pro (since christmas), here are my FINAL thoughts. I'm going to refrain from commenting on this thread until a new KZ product comes out, or I get something like the ED9's.


Tennmak Pro is the clear winner between these three, but lets go over the rest.

ATE: Full but what I consider to be a neutral sound, with possibly a little bump at around 5-6k which makes vocals and some guitars pop. Bass extension and high extension are clean and reserved, but still there - the signature is slightly less warm than the Tennmak's, but the high extension is reserved in a great way. Not an ultra wide soundstage like the ZST's, but clarity is definitely there. Sub bass is reserved, but there (ZHU - Money). I like these a lot.


The ATR is very neutral, but it cuts at like 11k and has poor low response. There's nothing fun, nothing exciting, and they lack details. While they do have a soundstage, who cares when the rest of the audio is terrible. It's like listening to compressed AM radio. There is definitely a reason these are $4, and it's because they aren't very good. They aren't ED12 bad, but they're not good. If you need a headphone under $5, it'll work, but for a few $ more you can get the ATE, or ZST. My conclusion here is to not trust coil's ear, as his post count clearly influences others into getting some terrible chinese IEM's.


If you want a better sound than the ATR, find the newest version of the ATE's.


ATR's sit right on the bottom of my list with the ED12's

In Order:

ZST

Tennmak Pro
ATE
ATR

SHE3590
ED12


The ATR's will likely go in the trash unless someone wants me to ship them to them. If you want them, feel free to PM me and I'll toss them in an envelope for free.

 

hey my atr doesn't sound trash at all it sound amazing i think you have hearing problem?khighly

 

[khighly]

   
IIRC math that guy did was wrong.  He added the cable resistance to the IEM driver resistance when I believe it should be added to the output resistance. 
 
Still, I am of the camp who believes that while cables WILL change something, it's usually too imperceptible (too low SNR) to notice even on freq sweeps, let alone human ears.  Still, if the wire resistance gets high enough, then it will change/color the sound. 

 
Do a blind test. I bet you won't be able to tell the difference. Have the wifey switch cables a 10 times while blindfolded. You'll figure out your logic is bunk. You're falling to capitalist marketing.

 

[ricemanhk]

   
Do a blind test. I bet you won't be able to tell the difference. Have the wifey switch cables a 10 times while blindfolded. You'll figure out your logic is bunk. You're falling to capitalist marketing.

Read my post carefully, I was agreeing with you. As long as cables are good enough, they won't matter to our ears.  I've done NON blind tests and I still couldn't hear any difference.
 
But if there's something wrong with the wire e.g. the copper has oxidized and the resistance gets too high, then the difference might be big enough that it MIGHT be heard.  Imagine using a plastic wire where no current can pass through, don't tell me there's no difference when there's no sound 

 

[khighly]

hey my atr doesn't sound trash at all it sound amazing i think you have hearing problem?@khighly

My hearing is excellent. I actually had a trip to the audiologist a month ago where they did a frequency sweep test and the doctor said I'm above average for 26 years old. I have two ATR's from two different sources. No tip can make them sound good. They're lacking highs and they're lacking lows. I would not hesitate to say these are a $1 Walmart crane game toy, where the ED12's are a 25¢ machine grocery store prize. You get what you pay for and the ATR's are only $4. - the lowest of the KZ's. The ATE's are much better than the ATR's
 
I now trust almost nobody on this board because I personally brought back the ZST hype after some regulars shot them down as trash. Now everyone loves them and are pouncing on two different flavors of them.
 
Take what the big guys say as a grain of salt. They've been gaslighted by audiophile marketing. You'll only be able to tell slight differences in 83¢ opaml chips that are in every DAC and headphone amplifier. Oh and tubes are a crock of poop too (I built my own stereo tube amp with independent opamps and voltage regs for both channels, using nichicon gold capacitors, metal film resistors, etc). Any modern cell phone opamp playing 320k MP3 is all your ear is going to hear. Anything else is snake oil.

 

[CoiL]

  My conclusion here is to not trust coil's ear, as his post count clearly influences others into getting some terrible chinese IEM's.

There's definitely something up with your ATR. Looking forward to your next update when some new KZs flood the market.

@khighly - Like... WTH? Dude, this is VERY rude! I put You on ignore list and I still have to read such trash?!? 
Read more comments from others and You see that many agree with what I have said. ATR has been getting much positive feedback here.
Not to say that my words are only truth, there are many gear match-ups, different hearing, personal subjective taste in music and sound signature etc. 
I`m trying to be objective most of time, clearly You not. 
 
Geesh, Idk what to say anymore... I hope ppl reading Your comments take it all with huge grain of salt and consider Your perspective being very subjective. 
 
I hope I don`t have to read anymore such posts from You even if You are still on my ignore list (from quotes). Be civilized and respect other ppl opinions.

 

[danspy]

   
IIRC math that guy did was wrong.  He added the cable resistance to the IEM driver resistance when I believe it should be added to the output resistance. 
 
Still, I am of the camp who believes that while cables WILL change something, it's usually too imperceptible (too low SNR) to notice even on freq sweeps, let alone human ears.  Still, if the wire resistance gets high enough, then it will change/color the sound. 

Yes but different builds of cables have different Resistances at different Frequencies, because capacity and Inductance. And frequency sweeps are pretty Static in comparison with Musick.

 

[khighly]

  Read my post carefully, I was agreeing with you. As long as cables are good enough, they won't matter to our ears.  I've done NON blind tests and I still couldn't hear any difference.
 
But if there's something wrong with the wire e.g. the copper has oxidized and the resistance gets too high, then the difference might be big enough that it MIGHT be heard.  Imagine using a plastic wire where no current can pass through, don't tell me there's no difference when there's no sound 

I apologize. I misread. I am currently in the hostipal on some weird medication. Hah. Sorry!

 

[danspy]

   
Do a blind test. I bet you won't be able to tell the difference. Have the wifey switch cables a 10 times while blindfolded. You'll figure out your logic is bunk. You're falling to capitalist marketing.

Sorry but I switch Cables sins 25 years, there is no Hope left for mi.

 

 

[Mus1c]

I apologize. I misread. I am currently in the hostipal on some weird medication. Hah. Sorry!

maybe from a hearing problem

 

[fredhubbard2]

For New ZST Owners:

If at first the ZST's have harsh highs and sound sibilant, give them about two days for the brain burn in to take control. Every time I switch from using the tennmak pros back to the ZST's I get harsh highs. After a day everything smooths out and becomes crystal clear. Don't let them go too soon, many people here love them and we keep adding new people to the ZST fanboy group

Horses for courses, got mine yesterday and they didn't sound sibilant at all. I am really impressed. My early impressions are that they could be source dependent, didn't sound great with my colorfly but sound really great with my xduoos but time will tell. I ve messed about with tips and the large white silicone ones that come with my havis work the best , anyway ymmv etc. Great earphones !

 

[Mus1c]

My hearing is excellent. I actually had a trip to the audiologist a month ago where they did a frequency sweep test and the doctor said I'm above average for 26 years old. I have two ATR's from two different sources. No tip can make them sound good. They're lacking highs and they're lacking lows. I would not hesitate to say these are a $1 Walmart crane game toy, where the ED12's are a 25¢ machine grocery store prize. You get what you pay for and the ATR's are only $4. - the lowest of the KZ's. The ATE's are much better than the ATR's

I now trust almost nobody on this board because I personally brought back the ZST hype after some regulars shot them down as trash. Now everyone loves them and are pouncing on two different flavors of them.

Take what the big guys say as a grain of salt. They've been gaslighted by audiophile marketing. You'll only be able to tell slight differences in 83¢ opaml chips that are in every DAC and headphone amplifier. Oh and tubes are a crock of poop too (I built my own stereo tube amp with independent opamps and voltage regs for both channels, using nichicon gold capacitors, metal film resistors, etc). Any modern cell phone opamp playing 320k MP3 is all your ear is going to hear. Anything else is snake oil.

everyone has agree that kz atr don't sound like trash.everyone have positive about it and you come here just say 4 $ iem sound like ****, the money doesn't matter the matter is the sound quality woman.

 

[ricemanhk]

LOL at the back and forth!
 
Guys, in the end these KZ IEMs are all pretty cheap, cheap enough to just get the ones you want to try and have a listen yourself.  I personally didn't like the ZS3 as much (vs the ZST) so I gave them to a friend and he's having a ball with them (he thought they were 5x the price!). Sharing is caring!