KGSShv Carbon - hows it sound with the 009s?

[purk]

  Word from Birgir:
 

Based on short first impressions the Carbon beats the T2 easily but I need more time to be sure.  Just more powerful and with more detail, better soundstage and far cleaner bass.

 

 

Poor T2.....it doesn't get any love from Birgir.  

 

[TMoney]

  Poor T2.....it doesn't get any love from Birgir.  

 
Makes you wonder whether that is related with how much trouble he has had with his T2 build. 

 

[astrostar59]

Wow! Is anyone in UK going to build it? I'd be curious to listen to it

I am not sure I believe it. After hearing the BHSE and my KGSShv, they are both really damb good, but the tubes in the BHSE 'do something' to the sound, they make it more real and live. The bass on my KGSShv and dynamics is as good, maybe better than the BHSE (on the 009s) but the magic midrange of those EL34s....
 
Birgir is Stax God to many. I will wait till others have heard it and made an opinion about it. If it's that good, I might buy one!

 

[astrostar59]

   
Makes you wonder whether that is related with how much trouble he has had with his T2 build. 

Trouble? You mean reliability issues?

 

[astrostar59]

Birgir quote:
t’s finally here, the KGSSHV Carbon.  This is the first electrostatic amp in the world to use SiC FET output devices which are as close to triodes as transistors can get.  The original design concept for this amp was born to tame the rough top end of the SR-009 but it grew from there to become the best solid state amplifier we have designed. Right up there with the BHSE and the T2 as the best amps of their kind all the power you could ever need, a lot of detail, huge and expansive soundstage and the best bass I’ve heard from an electrostatic amp. 
 
I don't agree the 009 has a 'rough top end'.

 

[mulveling]

I think this is a YMMV scenario, just like with 007 vs 009. I have a Carbon being built and I'm under no delusions that it'll match or beat Purk's DIY T2, which is the closest to sonic perfection I've ever heard. But I do expect it to beat the KGSShv, which could put it at or even past (yes, that's optimistic) the BHSE w/ Holland xf4/xf5 tubes for my tastes with 009.
 
It's a really exiting new Stax amp, that's also more obtainable (for now) than the other really exciting Stax amps -- on that at least I think we can all agree.

 

[mulveling]

 
I am not sure I believe it. After hearing the BHSE and my KGSShv, they are both really damb good, but the tubes in the BHSE 'do something' to the sound, they make it more real and live. The bass on my KGSShv and dynamics is as good, maybe better than the BHSE (on the 009s) but the magic midrange of those EL34s....

I agree that the BHSE has a glorious midrange to go with it's high resolving capability; it remains to be seen whether a SS amp can match that quality of midrange (though it's not like the KGSShv mids are too far behind). However when I've listened to the BHSE (again with Holland xf4/xf5, so as not to judge other potentially warmer tubes, though these Hollands are definitely NOT junk), it's just got a touch too much energy up top for me when paired with the 009. I've heard other amps do that with the 009 too, but the two full-size KGSShv I have DON'T do that. And I don't mean to say the BHSE treble is bad -- it cranks out absolutely gorgeous quality treble, truly high-end quality -- it's just that there's slightly too much of it for me with the 009. It's an absolutely perfect for pairing with the 007, though.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  I think this is a YMMV scenario, just like with 007 vs 009. I have a Carbon being built and I'm under no delusions that it'll match or beat Purk's DIY T2, which is the closest to sonic perfection I've ever heard. But I do expect it to beat the KGSShv, which could put it at or even past (yes, that's optimistic) the BHSE w/ Holland xf4/xf5 tubes for my tastes with 009.
 
It's a really exiting new Stax amp, that's also more obtainable (for now) than the other really exciting Stax amps -- on that at least I think we can all agree.

  I agree that the BHSE has a glorious midrange to go with it's high resolving capability; it remains to be seen whether a SS amp can match that quality of midrange (though it's not like the KGSShv mids are too far behind). However when I've listened to the BHSE (again with Holland xf4/xf5, so as not to judge other potentially warmer tubes, though these Hollands are definitely NOT junk), it's just got a touch too much energy up top for me when paired with the 009. I've heard other amps do that with the 009 too, but the two full-size KGSShv I have DON'T do that. And I don't mean to say the BHSE treble is bad -- it cranks out absolutely gorgeous quality treble, truly high-end quality -- it's just that there's slightly too much of it for me with the 009. It's an absolutely perfect for pairing with the 007, though.

 
From your experience, does the BHSE beat out the DIY T2 in any areas?

 

[mulveling]

   
From your experience, does the BHSE beat out the DIY T2 in any areas?

I don't have nearly as much experience with these amps as Purk, since he owns them both, but given what I've heard so far -- it would be a real stretch for me to come up with any win in the BHSE column. Other than cosmetics of course
 
It's a glorious amp, well worth its price tag (factoring in the duration and stress of a WAIT for a new one makes for a different story, but you mentioned you may have a line on a local unit, which is VERY lucky) -- but from what I've heard the T2 is the better amp, period.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  I don't have nearly as much experience with these amps as Purk, since he owns them both, but given what I've heard so far -- it would be a real stretch for me to come up with any win in the BHSE column. Other than cosmetics of course
 
It's a glorious amp, well worth its price tag (factoring in the duration and stress of a WAIT for a new one makes for a different story, but you mentioned you may have a line on a local unit, which is VERY lucky) -- but from what I've heard the T2 is the better amp, period.

 
That reflects what everyone else has told me. It's just that the gorgeous mids of the BHSE have been mentioned more than a few times in this thread. So I guess I could be happy with the following plan: KGSSHV Carbon first...skip BHSE...and pursue T2 much later on, using the funds I would have spent on that next year to expand into high-end planar magnetics. I'm still bummed out about there not being an option for a black faceplate on the Carbon. (I asked.)

 

[georgep]

 
Trouble? You mean reliability issues?

No, his particular build has not cooperated for whatever reason until he recently completely rebuilt it, though there are still some lingering issues apparently.

  Poor T2.....it doesn't get any love from Birgir.  

 
Interestingly, the only other amp that Kevin Gilmore has identified as giving him a "T2 moment" was his recently completed circlotron - not the carbon. So whatever that may be worth.
 
Plus the carbon is less than 1/5th the cost of a T2...

 

[astrostar59]

Anyone know how hot a full size Carbon gets? I think Birgir has built some Carbon Compacts, but I am interested in the full size chassis versions. I understand the bonus of the Carbon amongst other things is the extra heat it can take so that equates to bumping up the voltage / swing / amps which equates to more watts and more heat. My ideal would be have a Carbon built but in a bigger wider chassis and get all those other components as far away from the output fetts as much as possible.
 
Back to Birgir SQ views, we need more users / info from others IMO. The take of one reviewer is not enough. I don't have an issue with the 009 top end at all, it may be my ears / tastes or my tubed DAC. Though my DAC is very resolving and extended, but it is not DS solid state which 'may' energise the treble quality IMO. 
 
Regardless, unless I get to hear a Carbon myself, I am staying with my KGSShv.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  Anyone know how hot a full size Carbon gets? I think Birgir has built some Carbon Compacts, but I am interested in the full size chassis versions. I understand the bonus of the Carbon amongst other things is the extra heat it can take so that equates to bumping up the voltage / swing / amps which equates to more watts and more heat. My ideal would be have a Carbon built but in a bigger wider chassis and get all those other components as far away from the output fetts as much as possible.
 
Back to Birgir SQ views, we need more users / info from others IMO. The take of one reviewer is not enough. I don't have an issue with the 009 top end at all, it may be my ears / tastes or my tubed DAC. Though my DAC is very resolving and extended, but it is not DS solid state which 'may' energise the treble quality IMO. 
 
Regardless, unless I get to hear a Carbon myself, I am staying with my KGSShv.

 
I was thinking about this earlier. I would imagine that the larger version would have better heat management. Plus I like its look more.
 
On that note, he told me this as well:
 
"I’m also not sure if I will build any more of the full size ones once these have on hand have been sold. The chassis a is a bit of a dog to use when the mini is easier to assemble."
 
(I hope he doesn't have a problem with me sharing info here. ...And I hope my sharing of said info doesn't result in someone snatching up the full-size unit I want!)

 

[purk]

   
I was thinking about this earlier. I would imagine that the larger version would have better heat management. Plus I like its look more.
 
On that note, he told me this as well:
 
"I’m also not sure if I will build any more of the full size ones once these have on hand have been sold. The chassis a is a bit of a dog to use when the mini is easier to assemble."
 
(I hope he doesn't have a problem with me sharing info here. ...And I hope my sharing of said info doesn't result in someone snatching up the full-size unit I want!)

You should check with him first before posting it here.  I'm sure he doesn't mind that but if you are unsure of something...why not talk to him first?

 

[Music Alchemist]

  You should check with him first before posting it here.  I'm sure he doesn't mind that but if you are unsure of something...why not talk to him first?

 
Too late now.

 
(But I shall try to be more tactful in the future.)