[Dawnrazor]

I don’t understand what you’re asking in regards to open headphones. Example of the ring your referencing? - there’s a big variance in construction of open headphones. HD800 vs. LCD2/3/4 for instance.

“Soundstage” (actually headstage) on headphones is largely a product of FR, phase and impulse response. There’s a strong correlation between headphones with an FR spike at/near 9khz and the perception of a wide headstage.

here is the ring:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/m1060c-open-soundstage-mod.918483/

Is that 9k spike on open cans? Would that mod above lead to a 9k spike?

 

[bfreedma]

2 reasons. My player needs to have the location changed between the 2. Secondly I couldn't leave both installed to adequately test things. So I would need to attach usb and insert sd card to do a fair comparison. Both those would introduce too much time between samples.

Sure I could use a different player like foobar, but thats not the best sounding player.

What amps and or dacs have you compared??

Again, if you test Windows players using WASAPI and not using any DSP, I seriously doubt you would hear a difference.

I’ve tested numerous solid stage amps and DACS. Given the assumption that there isn’t an impedance mismatch between the amp and headphone (or underpowered for the specific headphone) and the DAC isn’t using any filters, I’ve never been able to differentiate to a statistical significance in controlled testing.

I’m sure some manufacturers have a house sound, but I have no interest in electronics that don’t transparently reproduce audio so don’t purchase them.

 

[bfreedma]

here is the ring:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/m1060c-open-soundstage-mod.918483/

Is that 9k spike on open cans? Would that mod above lead to a 9k spike?

Can’t really conclude anything just by looking at the pictures. The 9khz spike should apply to both open and closed cans, though closed cans have other challenges in producing a large headstage, so the effect is less pronounced..

 

[Dawnrazor]

Again, if you test Windows players using WASAPI and not using any DSP, I seriously doubt you would hear a difference.

I’ve tested numerous solid stage amps and DACS. Given the assumption that there isn’t an impedance mismatch between the amp and headphone (or underpowered for the specific headphone) and the DAC isn’t using any filters, I’ve never been able to differentiate to a statistical significance in controlled testing.

I’m sure some manufacturers have a house sound, but I have no interest in electronics that don’t transparently reproduce audio so don’t purchase them.

I always turn off the windows audioservice and use asio. Foobar for instance is 2d and lifeless. Wavelab sounded great and so did Cplay. Winamp was better sounding than Foobar but not like wavelab and Cplay.

With the new PC I chose hysolid. Its just super clean but not sterile.

I had 2 amps that sounded identical. Turns out it was the same amp just rebranded and cosmetically different.

 

[Dawnrazor]

Can’t really conclude anything just by looking at the pictures. The 9khz spike should apply to both open and closed cans, though closed cans have other challenges in producing a large headstage, so the effect is less pronounced..

grey stuff is not there stock and its just a metal ring. Placing the gray stuff there made the soundstage wider.

 

[Ifalna]

Imaging is kind of 2 things. Its the soundstage and the precision of placement of the instruments inside the soundstage. When I switched the sd, the image became better defined and there was more black between the instruments. Its like when you focus a microscope. When its out of focus the image is bigger but blurry. When its focused its smaller and precise.

Ok, no difference in dacs??

Hmm no I can't remember getting "blurry images" in audio. Not sure about soundstage in general when using headphones (binaural recordings excluded, these can be darn creepy) but in normal recordings not so much. Sure you have a 360° circle around your head but I have yet to hear the other axis (by that I mean an instrument being further away or closer to you).
I did have one such experience hearing well set up speakers though. That was cool.

Difference in DACs? How? They are audibly transparent and have ruler flat frequency responses. There is no way to ABX any difference when measuring equipment that is 100x more sensitive than my ears says "no difference". oO

Sure I could use a different player like foobar, but thats not the best sounding player.

How can foobar "sound" when WASAPI exclusive basically hands your DAC the data directly and bit perfect?

 

[Andrew_WOT]

This thread is hilarious.
Please don't stop posting.

 

[sehnsucht]

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Free tip, JRiver has option to load full track or even album into memory, if your dying HDD cannot keep up or spins down during playback.

 

[Dawnrazor]

Free tip, JRiver has option to load full track or even album into memory, if your dying HDD cannot keep up or spins down during playback.

Why would Jriver do that??

 

[Dawnrazor]

Hmm no I can't remember getting "blurry images" in audio. Not sure about soundstage in general when using headphones (binaural recordings excluded, these can be darn creepy) but in normal recordings not so much. Sure you have a 360° circle around your head but I have yet to hear the other axis (by that I mean an instrument being further away or closer to you).
I did have one such experience hearing well set up speakers though. That was cool.

Difference in DACs? How? They are audibly transparent and have ruler flat frequency responses. There is no way to ABX any difference when measuring equipment that is 100x more sensitive than my ears says "no difference". oO


How can foobar "sound" when WASAPI exclusive basically hands your DAC the data directly and bit perfect?

If you have ever been to the eye doctor you can understand. Ever had a letter that looked clear and then the dude flipped the lense and wow it was clearer. That is what I experience. It was blurry RELATIVE to the change. It in and of itself was not blurry.

Really you never heard ANY track on headphones where the instruments are behind other instruments or the vocalist? Track 5 on Patricia Barber's Modern Cool is an example. She is closer than most instruments. Its pretty clear. Stereophile has a test disk where the dude takes a stroll around the stage. Its pretty clear. The Eagles Hotel California live the crowd noise is infront of the instruments. On the XLO test disk track 5 they walk around the stage and go all the way to the back. You can hear the depth. Stereophile Test disk 3 track 10 has a soundstage map. Its pretty obvious on some tracks. Maybe you should check your system. You never heard a recording where the perspective was front row and one that was 10th row??

The assumption is that if the bits are the same the sound is the same. Well if you can't hear depth in a recording then maybe your system isn't revealing the differences. There are analog stages and jitter components and its more than bits is bits. I don't use WASAPI. I use ASIO. All I can tell you is that Foobar costs the same as the player I use and is way more versatile. It just doesnt sound as good. There is nothing to lead me to that conclusion, no extra features or extra price or anything. Foobar just sounds dead and sterile and there are a lot of people that pay for software because it sounds better to them. I don't pay for software but do think there are better sounding programs than foobar.

 

[Ifalna]

If you have ever been to the eye doctor you can understand.

You never heard a recording where the perspective was front row and one that was 10th row??

The assumption is that if the bits are the same the sound is the same. Well if you can't hear depth in a recording then maybe your system isn't revealing the differences. There are analog stages and jitter components and its more than bits is bits. I don't use WASAPI. I use ASIO.

I have -6dpt, so yeah. Not a stranger to correction lenses and the effect they have on your vision. I can't even take a shower w/o wearing glasses, if I want to see what I am doing.
Never experienced sth. that extreme in audio, if you discount going from EL-Cheapo crap gear to sth like a DT-880 or a Focal Clear. Certainly never experienced sth like that when it comes to electronics. Reduction in noise: yes. Nicer Frequency response (I guess you could call bringing up the high end an increase in clarity) yes. Nothing past that though.

Oh of course the perspective changes depending on the recording. Having a well done recording or not makes a world of difference and is imho the most critical component in any system. Even modest cans or speakers can sound nice with a well done recording. What I meant to say: I never heard DAC 1 rendering the perspective correctly and DAC 2 not doing so. Or headphone 1 doing it and headphone 2 not doing it (cheap mass market cans excluded of course).

You do realize that ASIO and WASAPI basically do the same thing when it comes to audio drivers, right? Bypass Windows audio stack and feed your DAC the data directly and bit perfect.
Unless your driver is broken, there should not be any sonic difference at this stage.

BTW: I use my system for live VST piano playback, so I am familiar with ASIO and the low latency it brings.

PS: thanks for the track list, will check them out when I find the time.

 

[Dawnrazor]

I had a grounding issue with a new Cisco switch and was getting hum when connecting both audio and normal computers to the switch. The cisco was new and the old switch didnt do that. I had to get a dlink switch which fixed it.

That prompted me to also get an ethernet isolator from Tripplite. That improved the sound as things were smoother and more relaxed. Like more was happening in the same time. I just ordered another one for the computer.

So the comment about ethernet not being isolated seems to be accurate. Thanks!

 

[xeizo]

I use ASIO for recording because of latency, but Windows WASAPI sounds pretty flawless to me. What usually can color the sound is if there is any resampling going on in the chain, always use the exact sample rate of the source material through the whole chain. And use capable amplification for your cans, the amp can color the sound A LOT. When using PC as source it's a great idea to use a balanced amp/cables as it will remove all PC noise generated between the DAC and the cans..