[richard51]

Hi.

Kennerton Thekk (SN/001) versus Sennheiser HD-400 Pro (my copy) (and not Sennheiser HD-560S). Objective measurement (relative FR) - Update.

HD-560S versus HD-400 Pro (chosen as reference headphones) (in relative dB)

Kennerton Thekk versus HD 400 Pro (chosen as reference headphones) (in relative dB)

Read more at these links:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sennheiser-hd-400-pro-released.960952/page-5
https://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post181116799.html#p181116799

Thanks for adresses and answer...

I must say that measures are only very general indication which are useful for standards applications for designers, but the timbre experience is a subjective and an acoustic experience way too complex to be described by frequencies responses graph only...

And for me there is 2 criteria for my headphones experience evaluation : timbre and soundfield which soundfield own not 2 parts but three : Imaging differentiation-soundstage dimensions- perceived holography inside, around or out of the head according to each recordings conditions translated by the headphone....

I will read your impressions but the graphs you gave do not means much for the timbre experience and the soundfield experience...Reviewers like measures graphs even if that say not very much , anyway no headphones are perfect either and a perfect headphone with perfect measures is not necessarily the right one.... There is many other factors...

At best graphs of frequencies response guide us about what cannot work well in design, but cannot be the last words for our experience... At best they teach us what we dont want to buy not what we will buy....

It is as in a room speakers/relation, the frequencies responses of the speakers to the room and of the room to the speakers are a tool to use in mechanical active control and acoustical passive treatment of the room , but nothing more .... In headphone the measured drivers responses in some shell for some artificial ears does not tell the story....It is a tool nothing more... Your words will give us more than your measures to decide....

But if there is no best headphones in the absolute, there is for sure some headphones which are the best in the scale S.Q. /price ratio.... But only timbre evaluation will not tell all the story to tell either , soundfield experience matter too... My Stax SR-5 Gold own a more "beautiful" timbre than many headphone, but his soundfield is limited.... Then i prefer my AKG K340 by a large margin which rival the timbre of the Stax but with a more realistic timbre for me than a mere "beautiful" one and especially a soundfield which exceed the Stax Sr-5 Gold by more than a huge margin....

Anyway i was interested by your opinion as owner of the Senn. and the Kennerton headphones, i too think higher price dont means better in the absolute... But the price of something beautifully made by hands and wood can be justified for sure... I am interested myself by the timbre and soundfield evaluation....

 

[eric65]

Thanks for adresses and answer...

I must say that measures are only very general indication which are useful for standards applications for designers, but the timbre experience is a subjective and an acoustic experience way too complex to be described by frequencies responses graph only...

And for me there is 2 criteria for my headphones experience : timbre and soundfield which soundfield own not 2 parts but three : Imaging differentiation-soundstage dimensions-holography inside around or out of the head....

I will read your impressions but the graphs you gave do not means much for the timbre experience and the soundfield experience...Reviewers like measures graphs...

At best graphs of frequencies response guide us about what cannot work well in design, but cannot be the last words for our experience... At best they teach us what we dont want to buy not what we will buy....

It is as in a room speakers/relation, the frequencies responses of the speakers to the room and of the room to the speakers are a tool to use in mechanical active control and acoustical passive treatment of the room , but nothing more .... In headphone the measured drivers responses in some shell for some artificial ears does not tell the story....It is a tool nothing more... Your words will give us more than your measures to decide....

But if there is no best headphones in the absolute, there is for sure best headphones in the scale S.Q. /price ratio.... But But only timbre evaluation will not tell all the story to tell either , My Stax SR-5 Gold own a more beautiful timbre than many headphone, but his soundfield is limited.... Then i prefer my AKG K340 by a large margin which rival the timbre of the Stax but with a more realistic timbre for me than a "beautiful" one and a soundfield which exceed the Stax Sr-5 Gold by more than a huge margin...

Interesting.

I have a dilemma.

I own (or to be more accurate, I owned) two high-level headphones intended for the professional world, for mixing sound in studios.

Sennheiser's open pro headphones, the HD 400 Pro.
https://en-us.sennheiser.com/hd-400-pro

Kennerton's "ultimate" pro headphone, the Thekk.
https://kennerton.org/shop/thekk/

However, there is a "snag" because they don't sound the same at all; this small detail (disturbing for some) can, of course, cause a real problem, and I would even say a very big problem when mixing sound in a pro studio.

So which of these two "Pro" headphones should you choose, the Kennerton or the Sennheiser ?

Well, maybe I'll be reproached for for belonging to Western Europe, but I have more confidence in the means of measurement (and financial), as well as in the sound engineers of Sennheiser than of Kennerton, in the developement of a headphone, for professional use (and audiophiles), with the most accurate tone possible.

As implied by my friend René, in the French forum, Kennerton makes up for his lack of optimization of his "Pro" headphones (here the Thekk) by aesthetic elements (pretty wooden cups) and by speech (marketing) .

https://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post181117838.html#p181117838

 

[richard51]

An headphone must translate the recording acoustic in his own acoustic shell /cups for some specific ears, a relative tone accuracy translation is not enough for me to speak about a great headphone... The soundfield matter as much.... And the only tone accuracy which is meaningful, is the relative translation of the timbre tonal microdynamics of the original recording , then there is no absolute objective tonal accuracy in itself.... The timbre of a piano is a known experience for sure, but each piano recording is different because of the room conditions and because of the trade-off choices made by recoding engineers.......

Timbre perception is way too complex to be reducible to only objective acoustic conditions, it is also a psycho-acoustic phenomenon... Only choices made in the process of recording timbre and the acoustic information about his embeddings in the room or hall acoustic, which can be translated by an headphone also and only in a relative way, only the relativetranslation of these choices are meaningful in the evaluation process of headphone... There is no objective pure "timbre" recognition, only acoustic and psycho-acoustic relative conditions and engineering trade-off...

This is why timbre matter but the acoustic situation of the recording matter too... ( the original recording soundfield translated by the headphone soundfield condition and rendition and not only the timbre alone because the timbre experience is always embodied in a specific unique set of events and localization )

Then for me the best headphone be it a Kennerton one or a Senn. one, will be the one giving the best experience of timbre but also the acoustic information about the original recording room aqnd conditions....

Interesting.

I have a dilemma.

I own (or to be more accurate, I owned) two high-level headphones intended for the professional world, for mixing sound in studios.

Sennheiser's open pro headphones, the HD 400 Pro.
https://en-us.sennheiser.com/hd-400-pro

Kennerton's "ultimate" pro headphone, the Thekk.
https://kennerton.org/shop/thekk/

However, there is a "snag" because they don't sound the same at all; this small detail (disturbing for some) can, of course, cause a real problem, and I would even say a very big problem when mixing sound in a pro studio.

So which of these two "Pro" headphones should you choose, the Kennerton or the Sennheiser ?

Well, maybe I'll be reproached for for belonging to Western Europe, but I have more confidence in the means of measurement (and financial), as well as in the sound engineers of Sennheiser than of Kennerton, in the developement of a headphone, for professional use (and audiophiles), with the most accurate tone possible.

As implied by my friend René, in the French forum, Kennerton makes up for his lack of optimization of his "Pro" headphones (here the Thekk) by aesthetic elements (pretty wooden cups) and by speech (marketing) .

https://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post181117838.html#p181117838

 

[eric65]

...

Then for me the best headphone be it a Kennerton one or a Senn. one, will be the one giving the best experience of timbre but also the acoustic information about the original recording room aqnd conditions....

Hi (again).

Since you attach more importance to the listening comments than to the measurements made, well know that my listening comments following the (relative) objective differential measurements between the Kennerton Pro headphones (the Thekk) and the headphones Sennheiser's open Pro (the HD-400 Pro), well, the appreciation of the timbres was calamitous for the Thekk compared live to the HD-400 Pro (Note the objective measurements also point in this direction), not to mention the obvious lack of extension of the Thekk in the sub-bass (below 50Hz).
https://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post181117661.html#p181117661

For the good appreciation of the soundstage, for the placement of musical instruments in a realistic way, well I believe that a sound engineer in a studio will do without headphones and instead use professional loudspeakers from monitoring.

 

[richard51]

I see.... Under 50 hertz, bass is very important among other things for organ.... I like organ... My actual headphone the K340 give me sub-bass ....I felt the bass note of organ with my feet.... By body resonance.... Then just the lack of sub-bass or too soon rolled-off and not enough extended highs is a deal breaker for me... But even with all that if there is no 3-d soundfield "out of the head" it is a deal breaker too... I disliked all my past 9 headphones because of that....

For example in this recording of the genius composer Robert Simpson, the perception of the strings are distributed outside my head in my room near the wall in front of me and the cello beside me... This is a relative realistic translation of the recording soundfield, a speaker like one in a way , not only an always " inside the head" confined experience.... Ok thanks very much for your answers....

 

[Revolution1]

he appreciation of the timbres was calamitous for the Thekk compared live to the HD-400 Pro (Note the objective measurements also point in this direction)

So what did you have with hearing a year and a half ago?
You were delighted with the timbres of Thekk:

Not having been able to buy the Rognir will not be a loss, because I remain very satisfied with the Thekk , for listening to classical piano as well as Symphonic Metal music.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ken...hror-discussion.732814/page-386#post-16514892

 

[fullbass]

You were delighted with the timbres of Thekk:

 

[eric65]

So what did you have with hearing a year and a half ago?
You were delighted with the timbres of Thekk:


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kennerton-odin-magister-vali-magni-gjallarhorn-rögnir-thridi-wodan-thekk-and-thror-discussion.732814/page-386#post-16514892

That said, to make my mea culpa, as I was the first of the list to be "tricked" by this Kennerton Thekk headphones at least as the first owner of the Thekk SN 001 headphones); well, without any other serious comparative element with a reasonably fair headphones for the tone (to serve as a "referent" headphone), one can be fooled into finding (via brain formatting) the headphones in question (Thekk) to be very good and as well-balanced at all frequencies; it is only after a direct comparison of my former Kennerton Thekk headphones with the Sennheiser HD 400 Pro headphones, taken as "reference" headphones (a comparison which was quite cruel for the Thekk, it must be said:
https://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/casques-sedentaires/sennheiser-hd-400-pro-t30117973-435.html), that I (finally) realized that the Thekk had a "small" problem of tone, and that it was, in fine, not so satisfactory.

Before discovering the HD-400 Pro (and the HD-560S), I was content with these tone imperfections (of the Thekk and many other headphones), however (objectively) more than noticeable ...

Source (in the french forum), here: https://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post181117661.html#p181117661

 

[fullbass]

as I was the first of the list to be "tricked" by this Kennerton Thekk

it turns out that there is no guarantee that you will not be tricked by hd 400-560 either, and after a while you will also curse it by the cooldown

 

[Revolution1]

That said, to make my mea culpa, as I was the first of the list to be "tricked" by this Kennerton Thekk headphones

How can you deceive your own ears?
The timbre that the Thekk played, or corresponded to the timbre of a classical piano or not.
No other is given.
You were delighted, these are your words.

 

[227qed]

So I’ve had my new GH50 JM for a few weeks now, been putting it through the paces daily.

I was a little unimpressed at first, but that was because I had the fit all wrong and think they needed some burn-in.

All in all though I’m really happy with them. They are definitely a step above anything I’ve ever heard before.

Overall the standout features are the bass, soundstage, and imaging. They really like open backs to me. Next level soundstage for gaming for sure. I haven’t heard anything yet that does soundstage range so well. Sounds can be close or far, there’s a nice balance to the size and placement of sounds on all directions. Very holographic and 3D compared to the more 2D presentation of just about everything else I’ve had.

They take a 12 dB bass boost without issue, I can play them as loud as I want. They seem to get better and better the louder they go. Powering balanced on high gain from a Jot2, a bit past 9 o’clock is perfect.

One other standout feature I get from these is texture. It’s been a bit of an audiophile buzzword for me up to this point, but I’ve finally experienced a wide range of textures in sound. And shapes too. The GH50 JM for me adds new dimensions/senses to sound for me, it’s been great experiencing this in at the next level for the fist time. I listen to weird stuff now that I never cared for before. Blade runner 2049 soundtrack comes to mind. There’s some really crazy stuff happening in some of those songs I could never fully appreciate before.

I think Kennerton nailed it with their saying “headphones as fine art”. The sound presentation is definitely art for me, not to mention the Baltic Sea finish on the cups and overall build being very nice as well.

Lastly, and fittingly, Atomic Heart sounds very very good on these. Even the dev credits in the beginning are epic.

 

[Anouk]

Hello everyone, I was just doing a bit of browsing on head-fi since I am in the market for a new headphone. And I came across the kennerton brand especially the gjallarhorn jm edition. Its squarely within my price range and I read some promissing reviews. Was a big fan of the jvc dx1000 back in the day!
But I have a few quastions
1. Is the kennerton.de a legit eu seller/branch of their site?
2. Any comparisons of this headphone to better known ones like the fostex 900, focal radiance or some zmf models (to throw in some woodies)? Was also looking at hifiman arya stealth but would think that the kennerton is a lot more funsounding?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Greetings, Anouk,

 

[Lickumms]

Hello everyone, I was just doing a bit of browsing on head-fi since I am in the market for a new headphone. And I came across the kennerton brand especially the gjallarhorn jm edition. Its squarely within my price range and I read some promissing reviews. Was a big fan of the jvc dx1000 back in the day!
But I have a few quastions
1. Is the kennerton.de a legit eu seller/branch of their site?
2. Any comparisons of this headphone to better known ones like the fostex 900, focal radiance or some zmf models (to throw in some woodies)? Was also looking at hifiman arya stealth but would think that the kennerton is a lot more funsounding?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Greetings, Anouk,

I personally hated the TH900. I've tried 15ish closed back dynamics and the GH50 JM is my favorite dynamic closed back I've ever heard. It is super energetic with a massive sound stage and super powerful bass.

I wonder how the Oleg and Titan versions they sell are different than the stock headphones? I see they come with the higher quality cable but they don't seem to give any write up on how they are different.

 

[Anouk]

@Lickumms Their email is on their english site. Not sure hoq good they are at replying though. Some small companies suck at that.
Have you by any chance compared your phones to some focal models?
Greetings, Anouk,

 

[godmax]

Hello everyone, I was just doing a bit of browsing on head-fi since I am in the market for a new headphone. And I came across the kennerton brand especially the gjallarhorn jm edition. Its squarely within my price range and I read some promissing reviews. Was a big fan of the jvc dx1000 back in the day!
But I have a few quastions
1. Is the kennerton.de a legit eu seller/branch of their site?
2. Any comparisons of this headphone to better known ones like the fostex 900, focal radiance or some zmf models (to throw in some woodies)? Was also looking at hifiman arya stealth but would think that the kennerton is a lot more funsounding?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Greetings, Anouk,

1.) the kennerton.de site might be a legit offering/distributor of Kennerton products, but the people/company behind it are at least questionable since their main business is "energy healing" and other esoteric "therapies" and "products". I contacted them once before I bought my first Kennerton headphone, but they were very unresponsive and impolite. And their prices are just Kennerton webshop prices plus VAT, so no advantage to buy from them.
2.) the Gjallarhorn JM or Rognir Dynamic might be an option for you, if you want emphasis on bass (maybe not on TH900 levels, but still elevated)

I personally hated the TH900. I've tried 15ish closed back dynamics and the GH50 JM is my favorite dynamic closed back I've ever heard. It is super energetic with a massive sound stage and super powerful bass.

I wonder how the Oleg and Titan versions they sell are different than the stock headphones? I see they come with the higher quality cable but they don't seem to give any write up on how they are different.

I guess this is a similar collaboration as with Underwood Hifi and their LSA headphone line as rebranded/retuned Kennerton models, there are also not details known what kind of acoustic modifications they applied for their custom models.