[MdRex]

What I would really love to hear, is that you Aman sing live, like how Kelly Clarkson made in in AI. I am guessing that they don't use pitch correction for her during the show.

You are assuming pop singers can't sing because technology to correct pitch etc exist in studios. But thing is, she performed live and proved that she can sing. On national TV no less. Really, you can have a few takes in studio for perfection, but you can't really do that when you are singing live.

I'm getting my nails and chalkboard ready.

 

[Rempert]

One thing about the American Idol format is you go out there live, no backing tapes or studio magic, week after week, performing legendary songs you had only a few days to learn and put together, and one mediocre performance can end it all. Many of the musicians we put on a pedastel would not be able to perform well under such conditions. With Kelly, there was never really any doubt. So anyone who is posting here claiming she has no vocal talent, can't hold a pitch without studio magic, etc. really has no credibility on the subject.

The only question then is, what to sing? This issue seemed to hold her back on the first CD, but Breakaway is a good album all around.

 

[Hellacious D]

Why argue about whether she's talented if the music sounds good? It's not any more noble to listen to the music of alleged talented musicians than to listen to that of alleged untalented musicians. Anyhow, drawing a line between talented and untalented is impossible and a waste of time........unless you can define talent. Unfortunately, you can't........so it's still impossible and a waste of time.

 

[Computerpro3]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hellacious D /img/forum/go_quote.gif Why argue about whether she's talented if the music sounds good? It's not any more noble to listen to the music of alleged talented musicians than to listen to that of alleged untalented musicians. Anyhow, drawing a line between talented and untalented is impossible and a waste of time........unless you can define talent. Unfortunately, you can't........so it's still impossible and a waste of time.

Bingo.

 

[oak3x]

With all the posted arguments, let's not forget that my original statement was about that; "I was surprised how nice her voice is".

The claim was not that her vocal work is on the same level as say: Barbara Striesand.

 

[Digitalbath3737]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oak3x /img/forum/go_quote.gif With all the posted arguments, let's not forget that my original statement was about that; "I was surprised how nice her voice is". The claim was not that her vocal work is on the same level as say: Barbara Striesand.

Very true. She's not god's gift to music. She has a great voice and it really makes the songs that she sings. I wouldn't compare her to the any of "the greats" though. You don't have to be great to be good.

Actually on a side note Kelly Clarkson actually blows away my favorite female artist as far as vocals go. My favorite female artist are Bjork and Ani Difranco. Great artist but not anywhere near the greatest singers. Very few people would say that they aren't talented. Talent comes in many different forms. Not everyone has a great vocal range and a pleasant voice. Kelly Clarkson does. That's enough for me to find her talented.

Anyway I say enough with Aman he's hopeless and thinks his schooling makes him qualified to tell us we have no taste. He's just want the music industry needs another arrogant person telling people what they should like and what's good.

 

[zotjen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aman /img/forum/go_quote.gif I fail to find any substantial musical talent in Kelly Clarkson. And, as I said, most producers know the talented ones from the not talented ones, since our jobs are to make everybody sound talented, regardless of if they truly are or not. How are her pipes? Nothing special. Her songwriting skills? None, she doesn't write her songs (at least, certainly not the majority, and definitely not as more than a 'contributor'). Producing skills? Please, none! She's successful because she's tapped into a huge demographic. If she had vocal talents, she wouldn't be in the industry or genre that she's in, since she would most likely not allow herself to be manipulated and sculpted into the image the record companies want her to be. Regardless, the Kelly Clarkson you hear on the CD is not the same out of tune, inaccurate pitch Kelly Clarkson the studio techs hear.

I'm not sure I want to get involved in this discussion but I feel I have to comment on what is your IMHO nonsensical distinction between musical and vocal talent. You seem to have some sort of idea that in order to have musical talent you need to play an instrument, write songs, produce, etc., and that so called "vocal" talent isn't musical talent.

Can you honestly say that people such as Ella Fitzgerald, Tony Bennett, Maria Callas, Barbra Streisand, etc. aren't musically talented? I don't recall any of them playing instruments or writing songs so I guess they're just plain "vocal" talents. Based on your standards, someone like Avril Lavigne is more musically talented than Ella Fitzgerald.

And as far as what studio techs hear regarding Kelly Clarkson, how do you know this for sure?

 

[hYdrociTy]

Don't we all listen to music for enjoyment? wth is he listening for? His job.. lol.

 

[Jahn]

my wife likes her and thinks she sings better than Madonna (which is true). hey, that's enough talent to be a pop star, so why knock it.

 

[mtkversion]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zotjen /img/forum/go_quote.gif And as far as what studio techs hear regarding Kelly Clarkson, how do you know this for sure?

he doesn't.

he's just talking out of his ass again like always ...

 

[titaniumx3]

I personally think the 'subjectiveness' goes right back down to the very definition of what music is and more importantly what purpose it serves for an individual. A prime example is hip-hop compared to say rock/metal; people approach these music forms from very different angles for very different reasons, yet they both use the same term, 'music'.

 

[Aman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zotjen /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm not sure I want to get involved in this discussion but I feel I have to comment on what is your IMHO nonsensical distinction between musical and vocal talent. You seem to have some sort of idea that in order to have musical talent you need to play an instrument, write songs, produce, etc., and that so called "vocal" talent isn't musical talent. Can you honestly say that people such as Ella Fitzgerald, Tony Bennett, Maria Callas, Barbra Streisand, etc. aren't musically talented? I don't recall any of them playing instruments or writing songs so I guess they're just plain "vocal" talents. Based on your standards, someone like Avril Lavigne is more musically talented than Ella Fitzgerald. And as far as what studio techs hear regarding Kelly Clarkson, how do you know this for sure?

What are you talking about? Vocalists are just as much musicians as instrumentalists. I never claimed otherwise.

 

[Aman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hYdrociTy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Don't we all listen to music for enjoyment? wth is he listening for? His job.. lol.

I would be very assertive in suggesting that you won't make a good producer if you don't find music enjoyable.

 

[Aman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtkversion /img/forum/go_quote.gif he doesn't. he's just talking out of his ass again like always ...

Unless you were the recording engineer or producer for Kelly Clarkson (I hope for your sake you aren't) I think I am much more knowledgeable on the subject than you.

I think it's pathetic people here think that American Idol has produced anywhere near talented vocalists. The winners of American Idol are just as untalented as the pop stars they aspire to become. If being able to sing with a desirable tone and style is all you need to be a good pop star and also appear "talented", then what's the point in being better than that? Why bother being progressive and pushing the boundaries of music if everybody will be fine just being mediocre? And then, another logical fallacy: Kelly Clarkson isn't going to be remembered for anything in 30 years. Nobody will know her name. Ella Fitzgerald, the queen of scat, one of the most innovative song interpreters of her era (let alone of all time), is remembered for her many qualities. Kelly Clarkson is a derivative, studio-enhanced television star. Anything more is to entirely bastardize the lives, careers, and contributions of real vocalists who've graced us with their beautiful and important music.

 

[mtkversion]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aman /img/forum/go_quote.gif blah blah blah

yep there he goes talking out of his ass again ....