[kiddragonsoft]

Horrible?, Don't think so, sorry.....Must have been something else in your chain...How much did you drop on the total of tubes?   I have all the tubes you listed, but for now 2x Tungsram EZ-80, 2x Tesla ECC88 and the stock GE power x2.  Tube rolling makes a difference, but not night and day.  So, in the head-fi tradition, I respectfully disagree.  My WA2 has never sounded horrible.  

 

Should have said sounded horrible compared to my WA6SE with Sophia princess 274B. I don't have much in the chain, just RWA imod to Alo imod dock to amp via whiplash twag RCA to RCA. Headphones are either hd650 with twag ref x or hd800 with apuresound v3. As for how much for the tubes, I was able to score the TS 5998s for 140$ quad matched, so $35 a tube. I got the ez80 for $10 each. And I think it was a price mistake as somebody listed a buy it now on eBay for the 6922 for 18$ for the pair so $9 each for the 6922. I saw some of those go for around 80-90$ matched pair. Also I thought swapping out the stock GE power tubes made the most difference. Even when I swapped them to a pair of Westinghouse 6080.

 

[HeatFan12]

Quote:

Should have said sounded horrible compared to my WA6SE with Sophia princess 274B. I don't have much in the chain, just RWA imod to Alo imod dock to amp via whiplash twag RCA to RCA. Headphones are either hd650 with twag ref x or hd800 with apuresound v3. As for how much for the tubes, I was able to score the TS 5998s for 140$ quad matched, so $35 a tube. I got the ez80 for $10 each. And I think it was a price mistake as somebody listed a buy it now on eBay for the 6922 for 18$ for the pair so $9 each for the 6922. I saw some of those go for around 80-90$ matched pair. Also I thought swapping out the stock GE power tubes made the most difference. Even when I swapped them to a pair of Westinghouse 6080.

Fair enough.  However, I still don't see it as the former sounding horrible.  Great prices on those tubes btw.  If you say your current fitting is better detailed with more bass, mids and resolution compared to the stock, I'd tend to agree.  The Amperex drivers are known for their mids and bass.  But I just don't see "horrible" compared to the stock WA2 fitting (AMC 6V4, GE power and JAN 6922).  I'm not a fan of the JAN6922s but I used the stock config for burn-in and listening when I first received the amp for a while and I wrote about it in the Woo thread almost 2 years ago.  I also have mine maxxed (as you, per your sig), no SA though, so I don't understand.
 
Don't get me wrong, this has nothing to do with defending this amp.  If an amp sounds horrible, I'll call it like it is.  I have several amps, especially tube amps that I have compared side to side and never the word "horrible" crossed my mind with any configuration.  Tubes will give you flaws as well as positives, that's the beauty of rolling.  Throw in different headphones, DACs etc. and now you have a great weekend ahead of you...lol
 
Oh well, it's good to see different opinions...
 
Cheers

 

[Golden Monkey]

You can go completely nuts with tubes, and you're still only dealing is shades of grey when it comes to differences.  The ones in my sig (and there are more in my profile I didn't list) all sound different, sure, but honestly it's hard to listen to them and positively identify which is which, other than in broad generalities (Siemens sound markedly different from Mullards, for ex.).  To say the stock tubes SUCK isn't quite right, but to say "they suck in comparison to Western Electric 421A's and Telefunken CCa's" is a valid comparison...

 

[mikemalter]

Quote:

It is a pity that such an expensive amp comes with stock tubes that sound horrible. Does not make any sense to me.
 

Remember that guys like Jack Woo make and sell amps, not tubes.  You get a really well built amp and tubes that are decent, and it is up to you to determine what your tastes are and spend accordingly.  Before it's over, I'm going to spend at least half as much on tubes as I paid for my WA22.
 
What you might like in tubes, I may find not satisfying, so the question becomes what sonic profile are you trying to align with?  So, you get very inexpensive tubes to get you going and then it's up to you to get tubes that get a sound you like.

 

[akart]

Very inexpensive tubes in a great amp does not make sense. As I said before, its like selling a Ferrari with a Honda Civic engine. The amp should come with great tubes. Then people can change it according to their preferences, if they don't like the sonic signature.
 
Quote:

Quote:

It is a pity that such an expensive amp comes with stock tubes that sound horrible. Does not make any sense to me.
 

Remember that guys like Jack Woo make and sell amps, not tubes.  You get a really well built amp and tubes that are decent, and it is up to you to determine what your tastes are and spend accordingly.  Before it's over, I'm going to spend at least half as much on tubes as I paid for my WA22.
 
What you might like in tubes, I may find not satisfying, so the question becomes what sonic profile are you trying to align with?  So, you get very inexpensive tubes to get you going and then it's up to you to get tubes that get a sound you like.

 

[Golden Monkey]

Yes, but the only reason expensive tubes are expensive is due to demand.  A decade ago you could get CCa's for dirt cheap.  Then places like Head-Fi jacked up the demand and now a "great" tube and an "expensive" tube are considered one and the same.  "Inexpensive" and "crappy" are not the same either.  Tell me why a 421A and a 5998 are worlds apart in price, yet are the exact same tube?

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Very inexpensive tubes in a great amp does not make sense. As I said before, its like selling a Ferrari with a Honda Civic engine.
 

 
In other words, the Acura NSX.  Honda even had Pinninfarina do the bodywork.  Sensational car and a lot more practical than a Ferrari.
 
And the tube analogy doesn't hold up, either.  How do you judge the quality of a tube?  Do you just look at the price and decide whether something is good or bad?  Suppose someone takes a $10 tube and marks it up to $50.  Does it begin to sound like a $50 tube instead of a $10 one?  And if you bargain him down to $25, does it go from sounding like a $10 tube to sounding like a $50 tube to sounding like a $25 tube?  And what if you gave it to a friend?  Would it then sound like a junkbox tube?
 
You have to look at the performance characteristics of each tube.  Some reproductions are quite good.  Considering that every tube is going to burn out, why pay more for something that declines in health every time you use it?
 
Further, the amp's circuit and where the designer chose to bias the tubes has a bigger impact than the particular brand of tube used.  Depending on where you run it, a 6SN7 (or any tube) will sound different.  Run the tube at 250V and it will sound a lot different from being run at 150V.  Some designers like to run them hot, so an average one run at 250V might sound better than some super-rare NOS one run at 150V.

 

[hozo]

I wonder if it was a wireless router in addition to a new tube.  I've heard pops like that when my wireless router was blasting packets to the laptop.  If it comes back, make a temporary "cage" with some aluminum foil.  If it helps, then it's probably external.
Quote:

Originally Posted by LAmitchell /img/forum/go_quote.gif
i am getting STATIC/POPPING NOISES on the RIGHT CHANNEL 
even when the song is playing or the volume is turned all the way down,
the static is THERE every few minutes or so....

 

[LAmitchell]

I've been visiting my 4 year old son for the last 2 days
and just got home to listen to the WA2 w/ HD650 again
and hope you don't mind if i give some thoughts....
 
 
i'm hearing the "layers" in songs, for example, matchbox 20:
rob thomas is singing lead and also singing background and
his background parts seem to "float" around his main vocals...
i really like this.
 
what was i thinking it would sound like before i got it?
i guess i kinna pictured a 3D stage in front of me where
i would be able to hear a singer in front of me, the guitarist to
the left, maybe the horn section to the upper right or whatever.
was i crazy for hoping for this sound?
 
 
 
 
 

 

[avsBuddy]

What you are describing is not something that a simple headphone amp can address. The sound stage of the headphones is in principle different from the one you hear from speakers. This is not only because you have headphones setup where it's two "speakers" positioned squarely against your years, as opposed to speaker setup interacting with space between you and the source. It's also because the groves in your ears create specific acoustic signature which headphones completely bypass. Quality headphone amp supposed to be able to extract detail, accuracy and yes: improved sounstage - everything that low quality head amp cannot do because it simply doesn't have enough juice. However, "in your head" sound will still be there.
 
To achieve sounstage and imaging similar to the one you get from regular speakers you need DSP processing where sound is digitally processed to simulate a soundstage and imaging. I believe there have been headphone amp/DSP like that just reviewed in Stereophile magazine by Kal R.. Reviewer said he always hated headphones for the exact reason of "in your head" sound. The product he reviewed addressed that issue and he would actually have performers in front of him with proper imaging, just like real speakers. In that situation a good quality headphone amp still would be beneficial, although this processor already has headphone amp built in.
 
Found it, it's Smyth Research Realiser A8. Click on this link to read detailed review.
 
I look forward to receiving my WA2 and hopefully it will be trouble free. I actually enjoy in your head sound as a different perspective to speakers, which will remain my main source of music enjoyment.
 
I don't always listen to headphones, but when I do, I do it through Woo Audio amp.
 
Maybe I just wrote my new signature? We shall see

 

[LAmitchell]

avs:
 
thanks for your post, man. that clears up many questions i have had.
because after listening to it (WA2 , HD650) today for a couple of hours,
i found myself really liking what i was hearing. maybe part of the reason
was that i quit trying to figure out what i was supposed to be hearing
and actually listened to the song itself. 
 
i've decided to keep her and enjoy my little slice of hi-end audio bliss.
 
is it going to make a huge difference if i get a BENCHMARK DAC1?
(i'm using a APOGEE ONE right now which is a small step up from
the actual output of my mac).
 
 
by the way, i like your new signature:
 
 
I don't always listen to headphones, but when I do, I do it through Woo Audio amp.

 

it makes me think of the DOS EQUES commercials with 

"the world's most interesting man". is that where you got your inspiration from?

 

 

 

 

[kiddragonsoft]

Glad to see you decided to keep your amp.  Upgrade your 650 cable and see if you can get better tubes for your WA2 and you will love it even more.  I recommend amperex 6922 and tung sol 5998.  Even if you can just upgrade the power tubes to the 6080.  The westinghouse 6080 was pretty good.  Dont have to spend a lot of money you can get good tubes for $20 or less.  Check out the WA2 tube roll posts for some recommendations.

 

[tdoggystyle]

The transformer in an amp is much more responsible for the sound quality  than the tubes selected or the cables and interconnects.  The C220 sounds fantastic with the McIntosh branded Chinese tubes and it sounds fantastic with NOS Mullards and Tellefunkins and everything in between. It's not the tubes, it's the transformers

 

[Mr.Sneis]

Quote:

The transformer in an amp is much more responsible for the sound quality  than the tubes selected or the cables and interconnects.  The C220 sounds fantastic with the McIntosh branded Chinese tubes and it sounds fantastic with NOS Mullards and Tellefunkins and everything in between. It's not the tubes, it's the transformers

Does this guy remind anyone of someone in particular?  Starts with P ends with 82?

 

[Henerenry]

Lol.
 
Well, my 2 cents is that the iron does play a huge part is making a tube amp sound the way it does, and in some cases may be the limiting factor, but tube rolling has a significant impact on the end sound. To say the tubes dont matter is foolish, especially given the architecture of the WA2 seeing as how there is no output transformers .
 
Quote:

Quote:

The transformer in an amp is much more responsible for the sound quality  than the tubes selected or the cables and interconnects.  The C220 sounds fantastic with the McIntosh branded Chinese tubes and it sounds fantastic with NOS Mullards and Tellefunkins and everything in between. It's not the tubes, it's the transformers

Does this guy remind anyone of someone in particular?  Starts with P ends with 82?