[lindrone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CuriousVoiger Lindrone: I don’t know why, but I’m under the impression that UE can/will never ever do anything satisfactory in your view, no matter what… over the Sensa, that is. I mean things like: bubbles inside the Sensa’s casing are good bubbles, whilst bubbles inside the UE-10 are bad bubbles. </sarcasm>

I love when people posts things like this, it's like forcing me into giving the UE5c a better review or something just because some people didn't like the fact that whatever they have might not get a good review.

So let's go over some facts, shall we?

- Yes, Sensa has some tiny bubbles too, but they're extremely tiny... magnifying glass size bubbles. The bubbles towards the tips of the UE-10 Pro was about 5 times to 7 times larger than the bubbles in the Sensa. They don't have to be "inspected" to be seen, they simply has to be seen.

- My UE-10 Pro simply separated at the joint point between the two half shells, did you miss that thread entirely? There's zoomed in pictures to prove it..

- Ultimate Ears has pulled most mentioning of the 'full-soft' material completely off of their website. Obviously realized the quality problem with them, especially for the consumer crowd. Sure, hard acrylic is still fine, but hard acrylic isn't silicone, and custom IEM from years and years ago used hard acrylic. So all these great engineering and all, they still can't get past the two piece construction method and hard acrylic. It's like the Grados... still just two drivers on a stick. Sure, they sound fine (well, no soundstage sort of "fine"), notice I wouldn't spend money on them either.

- I paid $1000 for the UE-10 Pro, and $800 for the 2X-S.. by any means a more expensive IEM should at least sound better enough, if not, at least equal the quality of construction, right? Well, they obviously don't sound "superior", only different... and the construction... well.. the pictures speaks for themselves.


Quote:

True, they only are your own personal preferences, and you can rank the UE-10 right down the bottom of the list with the freebie if you like, lol

Wait, I did pay for them, right?.. Let me look for my credit card statement for you.. should I scan that and post it or something? (Actually, I don't have it.. lol)


Quote:

As for the soon to arrive UE-5 and possibly soon to follow review, I have a feeling that I already know where the wind is blowing.

See, that basically is a "force" into me giving UE5c a better review. I mean, if 2X-S is $200 more than the UE5c, shouldn't I expect 2X-S to be better than the UE5c? If they truly turned out inferior or equal, I would clearly say so... if they're not, I'm gonna say just the truth. Except with that statement, you're simply saying that I can't say anything besides UE5c is equal or better than the 2X-S. Hmm... Geez, what should I do?


Quote:

PS:Is case this is coming across as a personal attack, it is not meant to be. If I could express in English better, I’d put differently

Quote:

But your credibility as a king canalling is going out of the window in my view.

Oooh.. that's so NOT PERSONAL!!! REALLY! I'm not taking it PERSONALLY at all!



Oh yeah, btw, Sensa has you initials on the IEM's as well.. just they're not "carved" in, rather printed. On my pair I had peeled them off (it's printed on a piece of thin plastic that's stuck on a recessed groove of the IEM)..

 

[winty]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lindrone So if they made hard acrylic in the same shape, it would just be the same type of feel in my ear during insertion anyway.

No, your assumption doesn't match my experience at all (I switched from full soft to regular acrylic). You'll see when you get your UE5c. It feels completely different to me, both on insertion and once it's in properly. Personally, I find the hard acrylic is about 10x more comfortable than the full soft.

 

[Big D]

Quote:

Originally Posted by winty No, your assumption doesn't match my experience at all (I switched from full soft to regular acrylic). You'll see when you get your UE5c. It feels completely different to me, both on insertion and once it's in properly. Personally, I find the hard acrylic is about 10x more comfortable than the full soft.

I have had all of the following in my posession at the SAME time:

UE "soft" acrylic
UE hard acrylic
Sensaphonic 2X-S

Even Lindrone can't rank these for comfort yet!!

I would rate them in the following order for comfort:

1. UE hard acrylic
2. Sensaphonic 2X-S
3. UE "soft" acrylic

Note that I would rank all of these way above any generic fit IEM like any Shures or the Ety ER4. Even the Sony EX-71 that is very comfortable.

There are several reasons that the UE-10 Pro hard acrylic is the most comfortable. The main one is that it is so simple to insert. No more than a couple of seconds for each ear. The other two both take a little more effort to insert. Easier insertion means less discomfort over time, especially if you have to remove and reinsert frequently. The UE design uses the memory wire to help stabilise the earpiece in the ear whereas the 2X-S uses the tight fitting of the earpiece to achieve this. Hence you are more aware of the earpiece being there than with the hard acrylic UEs. The "soft" acrylic UEs are slightly tacky when you try to insert them and just aren't as comfortable or easy to insert as the Sensas or hard acrylic UEs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lindrone - My UE-10 Pro simply separated at the joint point between the two half shells, did you miss that thread entirely? There's zoomed in pictures to prove it.. - Ultimate Ears has pulled most mentioning of the 'full-soft' material completely off of their website. Obviously realized the quality problem with them, especially for the consumer crowd. Sure, hard acrylic is still fine, but hard acrylic isn't silicone, and custom IEM from years and years ago used hard acrylic. So all these great engineering and all, they still can't get past the two piece construction method and hard acrylic. It's like the Grados... still just two drivers on a stick. Sure, they sound fine (well, no soundstage sort of "fine"), notice I wouldn't spend money on them either.

Clearly Sensaphonic must use some kind of two piece construction method otherwise they wouldn't be able to get the components inside. Admittedly theirs uses the same material, but there must be a point where these two materials join. Have you actually used any hard acrylic custom IEMs in the past? If not I'd reserve your judgement till you have.

Myself, Gorman, Winty, and Welly Wu have all changed from the "soft" UE material to the hard material and prefer it. Surely we can't all be deluded. Also I rate the hard acrylic more comfortable than the Sensa's silicon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lindrone - Yes, Sensa has some tiny bubbles too, but they're extremely tiny... magnifying glass size bubbles. The bubbles towards the tips of the UE-10 Pro was about 5 times to 7 times larger than the bubbles in the Sensa. They don't have to be "inspected" to be seen, they simply has to be seen.

My new hard acrylic UEs definitely have less bubbles than my Sensas. Personally I don't think that bubbles are an issue, just that some IEMs will have more or less than others. I certainly wouldn't say that one has better workmanship than the other.

My UEs have a nice flat smooth outer part. My Sensas on the other hand have a rough feeling outer surface. This doesn't make a blind bit of difference to how they sound or look in my ear. I suspect this is because the Sensa have been made to be as inconspicuous as possible.

 

[wifigenius]

Congrats on the UE-5c's! I have a pair and they are amazing! Enjoy! and when you get an iPod try the Apple Loseless Encoding.

-Tyler

 

[gorman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lindrone The full-soft material with my UE-10 (and I assume hard acrylic will pretty much feel the same, given the pliability of either material is about the same) just didn't "hug" my ears. It's almost like there's a milimeter of space between where it sat in my ear versus where the Sensas did. [...]Sensas feels secure in your ears, literally completely attached, with UE's I never had that feel... It's almost like if I tipped my head on its side, they would fall out. Of course they wouldn't, they're pretty secure in its place, just in comparison.

Lindrone, I'd go as far as saying that, then, you did not have a perfect fit for your UE. I was pretty content with my UE-10 "full-soft", but the right earpiece was a little bit loose in fit, when compared to the left one. I mentioned this to UE when I sent back my "full-soft" that had a malfunction. As many are aware, UE recast a new model for me in hard-acrylic, totally under warranty, and they beefed up slightly the right earpiece in size. Now both earpieces fit perfectly and I definitely don't feel as there's a millimeter of space between the IEM and my inner ear.

And yes, I feel they are more comfortable than the "full-soft". Exactly as Big D is reporting.

 

[gorman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lindrone and the construction... well.. the pictures speaks for themselves.

They speak for one problem, in one product. A product that, under warranty, the company is substituting for you. Quote:

Oh yeah, btw, Sensa has you initials on the IEM's as well.. just they're not "carved" in, rather printed. On my pair I had peeled them off (it's printed on a piece of thin plastic that's stuck on a recessed groove of the IEM)..

Ok, this looks to me as a cheaper solution. Then again, Sensas will probably be offering carved initials as well in the future. I wouldn't be surprised by this.

 

[kdb650]

People seem to comment a lot about build quality so I just thought I'd share my thoughts since I've seen both the UEs and Sensas...
As far as the actual earpiece goes, both are at a glance pretty close, UE just has a different style going for them with the little circuit board type thing and wires running around, some people reffered to it as industrial I think? The only thing that I would consider a build quality issue is the seam running along the centre of the ear piece - here's where you might give Sensaphonics points for attention to detail. Because of Lindrone's experience it's fair to say it is a build issue, but it's a bit uncertain if this is an issue with the full hard acrylic option. The biggest factor that swings me towards the Sensaphonics side would be the wires - this of course could be debated as a stylisic issue rather than a build quality issue so thats up to you.

Earpiece contacts - With the UEs the cable is removable, which means theres a rather bulky connector in place compared to the non existant Sensa connector - it's fair to say this can be a good and bad thing, although I'd rather have the non removable cable of the Sensas and use the optional extension cord (which is offered in any length).

Memory wire - since IEMs stay fitted in your ear quite well (unlike my experiences with shures) I never saw much a point in using a memory wire except to neatly tuck the wire behind the ear and keep it from being seen. If this is the intent, then the Sensaphonics memory 'wire' does this quite well and remains much more elegant than the UE solution - which is basically the same as the Shure E5s. Having done quite a bit of photographing of the E5s I definitely feel like they were a pain to work with - this being due to both the memory wire and the thick cable.

Wire connector thing (where the two seperate ear piece wires join) - I haven't a clue what its called, but the Sensaphonics one is a bit more discreet, not much else to say.

Wires - The wiring on the Sensaphonics is just much more elegant, thinner, and easily hidden - it also matches the skin quite well. Since I prefer the stealthy look, it works out quite well. Surprisingly enough, having such thin wires doesnt seem to be a compromise, they're incredibly strong (I believe Lisa mentioned it being able to hold quite a bit of weight - which I can attest to), they don't seem to compromise the sound (while I haven't heard the Sensas with other wires, they definitely sound as good as I can ever imagine so I'm happy), and they dont tangle. The UE cables... seem quite ordinary.

Okay, so maybe people might feel I'm a Sensaphonics fanboy, but for the record, I started out set on UEs, with the triple drivers, custom colours, and all of that but after seeing the two in person started to consider the Sensaphonics because of their wires. It may seem odd to some, but after using the Sensas on a daily basis, I've definitely come to appreciate the difference the wiring makes - think of it this way - I'm incredibly satisfied with the ENTIRE package.

One last thing, IEMs dont photograph all that well, especially the Sensaphonics which show up in photos as a murkey pink colour. On top of that, clear IEMs look even worse when coated, similar to glass with fingerprints and oils all over them. Seeing Lindrone's photos (sorry Steve!) definitely turned me off the idea of silicone IEMs until seeing them in person, so I hope someone doesn't discredit them simply because they do look a bit odd (which I'm guilty of), and yes style plays a larger role than it should in purchases I make

 

[kdb650]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gorman They speak for one problem, in one product. A product that, under warranty, the company is substituting for you.Ok, this looks to me as a cheaper solution. Then again, Sensas will probably be offering carved initials as well in the future. I wouldn't be surprised by this.

Is it just me or am I the only one that likes the fact I can remove the initials part? Some may see this as a plus, understandably so if they're going for the custom colour look and all of that, but again, if you prefer discreet and simple, I'd consider it a benifit that Sensaphonics doesn't clutter an already busy design with the words UE-10Pro and my initials on the headphone... I think it'd be nice to have the option of with and without.

 

[random person]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big D There are several reasons that the UE-10 Pro hard acrylic is the most comfortable. The main one is that it is so simple to insert. No more than a couple of seconds for each ear. The other two both take a little more effort to insert. Easier insertion means less discomfort over time, especially if you have to remove and reinsert frequently.

I have to agree with Big D and others here about the hard acrylic. The stories I've been reading on various threads here about Sensa owners spending days trying to figure out how to get the earpieces in, soreness and redness and inflammation until they get it right, and so on, leave me somewhat mystified as to why people would call this Sensa material "most comfortable." I have to say that with my hard acrylic UEs comfort was absolutely NEVER an issue -- even when I had my share of problems at first figuring out how to insert them. No soreness, no inflammation, no redness. And certainly no sense that they were going to fall out of my ears. My fit has been superb from the get-go. I'm not trying to convince Sensa owners about anything here -- just that if some head-fiers are on the fence about one vs the other I wouldn't automatically assume that the hard acrylic is an inferior, uncomfortable material.

 

[random person]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lindrone I mean, if 2X-S is $200 more than the UE5c, shouldn't I expect 2X-S to be better than the UE5c? If they truly turned out inferior or equal, I would clearly say so... if they're not, I'm gonna say just the truth.

Actually you've already said in a prior thread that you thought the silicone material alone made the Sensas worth $200 more than the UE5c -- and that's before you've heard them both. So it's pretty clear where you'll come out, isn't it?

 

[iamdone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by random person I have to agree with Big D and others here about the hard acrylic. The stories I've been reading on various threads here about Sensa owners spending days trying to figure out how to get the earpieces in, soreness and redness and inflammation until they get it right, and so on, leave me somewhat mystified as to why people would call this Sensa material "most comfortable." I have to say that with my hard acrylic UEs comfort was absolutely NEVER an issue -- even when I had my share of problems at first figuring out how to insert them. No soreness, no inflammation, no redness. And certainly no sense that they were going to fall out of my ears. My fit has been superb from the get-go. I'm not trying to convince Sensa owners about anything here -- just that if some head-fiers are on the fence about one vs the other I wouldn't automatically assume that the hard acrylic is an inferior, uncomfortable material.

I'd agree about the sensaphonic, at least when you first get them. Because the silcone has a little friction it can rub your ears if you are puting them in wrong. Also because the stems can bend, it makes it easier to put in wrong. I also had issues because they originally made the stems too long for some reason. Now with the shorter stems, I can insert them in about 3 seconds an ears. So I don't really think this is an issue after the first week.

The one benefit I see to the 2x-s is the size. They are flush against your ears so if you lay on your side, it should be less pressure. I guess someone who has both can verify this.

I seems that everyone with the hard acrylic is happy and so are they ones with 2x-s silcone, so what's the arguement?

 

[Zoide]

Quote:

Originally Posted by random person The stories I've been reading on various threads here about Sensa owners spending days trying to figure out how to get the earpieces in, soreness and redness and inflammation until they get it right, and so on, leave me somewhat mystified as to why people would call this Sensa material "most comfortable."

If you're partially referring to my comments on my first fit experience, I'd like to remind everyone that this was mostly b/c I didn't go to the audiologist for the fitting as I should have (I received the earphones directly at home), and the new mold for the right side looked quite different from the first mold's right phone.

So that first day I really cleaned out and dried my ears w/ tissue paper (bad idea, lost all the natural lubrication of the ear canal) and tried and tried to jam in the non-fitting earphones.

That's why there was so much irritation and soreness in *my* experience. Now, if you're talking about other people's experience, then that's not mine to talk about...

 

[Zoide]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamdone I seems that everyone with the hard acrylic is happy and so are they ones with 2x-s silcone, so what's the arguement?

I agree with you, there's no argument. But still, I'm sure these comments might be useful for people still choosing which IEM to buy, for whom the comfort factor might make a big difference.

 

[iamdone]

Actually my own soreness issue might have all be related to the stems being too long. If they were made right and the audiologist showed you how to insert them, I doubt there would be any soreness issues at all.

 

[kdb650]

Quote:

Originally Posted by random person I have to agree with Big D and others here about the hard acrylic. The stories I've been reading on various threads here about Sensa owners spending days trying to figure out how to get the earpieces in, soreness and redness and inflammation until they get it right, and so on, leave me somewhat mystified as to why people would call this Sensa material "most comfortable." I have to say that with my hard acrylic UEs comfort was absolutely NEVER an issue -- even when I had my share of problems at first figuring out how to insert them. No soreness, no inflammation, no redness. And certainly no sense that they were going to fall out of my ears. My fit has been superb from the get-go. I'm not trying to convince Sensa owners about anything here -- just that if some head-fiers are on the fence about one vs the other I wouldn't automatically assume that the hard acrylic is an inferior, uncomfortable material.

I'm a bit confused how any IEM could just fall right out... the upper part of the Sensas tucks behind your ear making it so I doubt I could even pull them out by the cable if I tried. I'm not sure about the inflammation or redness but there were a few incidents of chemical burns (in the ears) caused from the uncured acrylic of the UEs... I'd assume this is a thing of the past however.