[LarsP]

Hi Head-fi.
 
I'm not 100% sure where I should put this thread since I could very well be placed both in the amp- and the source component-section.
 
As the thread title says, I've just bought the Beyerdynamic T1's. Even though I've not listened to them yet on my current rig, I'm still looking at doing some upgrades in the very near future.
 
I'm currently using the following setup:
DAC: Keces DA-151
AMP: Little Tube MKIII
 
I'm mostly listening to metal/electronic music.
 
The question is pretty simple, which part should I consider upgrading first in order to get the most out of my T1's? I'm probably going to upgrade both components in the long run, but as a poor chemistry student, I need to do it one part at the time.
 
I haven't put any definite price limits on the different parts, but I don't think that I'm wiling to go any further than 750-1000 USD/component. My personal favorites so far are the Woo Audio 2-amp and the Meier Audio stageDAC (by reputation since I've not listened to either of those), but I'm of course open for more suggestions. I might be leaning towards getting a new DAC as I'm getting more and more paranoid regarding that my DAC is picking up distortion/noise from my wireless network.
 
Sooooo.... new DAC or new AMP? 
 

 

[nigeljames]

I would recommend a DAC upgrade before amp upgrade.
The T1's are very revealing and the Keces, although I have not heard it, probably is not ideal.
 
Try looking at the Audio-gd stuff.My T1's sound superb through my Roc.

 

[LarsP]

Looking at the Audio-gd, I can see two viable models (pure DACs); 
NFB-2
NFB-3
 
Anyone own one of this and paired it with the T1's?

 

[Carlsan]

Quote:

Looking at the Audio-gd, I can see two viable models (pure DACs); 
NFB-2
NFB-3
 
Anyone own one of this and paired it with the T1's?

Anyone?
Or better question, anyone hear one of these with the T1's?

 

[rgs9200m]

Try different power cords on your source first, the different ones on your amp. It makes  a big difference, especially in the bass and highs.

 

[limpidglitch]

Quote:

Try different power cords on your source first, the different ones on your amp. It makes  a big difference, especially in the bass and highs.

Why on earth would that make any difference?

 

[revolink24]

Quote:

Try different power cords on your source first, the different ones on your amp. It makes  a big difference, especially in the bass and highs.

Why on earth would that make any difference?

It doesn't. Oh well.

I think the Keces is a fine DAC. I don't have experience with the T1s on a bunch of different amps, so I can't tell you which, but I would think an amp would be a reasonable upgrade.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Power cords? Two facts to keep in mind:

1. No one has ever measured an audible difference.
2. No one has ever heard a difference with their eyes closed.

If either of those ever change, I'll reconsider my position on cables. Am pretty sure neither will ever happen, since this has been fought over for 30 years. If there was something to the cable silliness, some manufacturer would have presented it by now to hammer the competition. Cables have as much credibility as ghosts, ESP and Bigfoot (not the monster truck, which I am fairly certain exists).

As to the OP's question, look into an amp upgrade. Since you have a scientific bent, how about building an amp? It's a project, for sure, but a Beta22 would give you world-class sound.

Don't worry too much about the source. There really aren't any bad digital sources these days. Also consider that the guy who started the "source first" marketing campaign in the 1970s thought that the biggest audiophile sin was having an undriven speaker in the room. No joke. He actually believed that having a spare speaker or two in the room somehow "ruined" the sound.

Be sure to throw the scientific method at the claims you see out here. On one level, I find a lot of pleasure in the magical realism. Same reason I enjoy science fiction and fantasy. But you don't have to buy into a magical worldview or spend a lot of money to get excellent sound.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

Power cords? Two facts to keep in mind:

1. No one has ever measured an audible difference.
2. No one has ever heard a difference with their eyes closed.

If either of those ever change, I'll reconsider my position on cables. Am pretty sure neither will ever happen, since this has been fought over for 30 years. If there was something to the cable silliness, some manufacturer would have presented it by now to hammer the competition. Cables have as much credibility as ghosts, ESP and Bigfoot (not the monster truck, which I am fairly certain exists).

As to the OP's question, look into an amp upgrade. Since you have a scientific bent, how about building an amp? It's a project, for sure, but a Beta22 would give you world-class sound.

Don't worry too much about the source. There really aren't any bad digital sources these days. Also consider that the guy who started the "source first" marketing campaign in the 1970s thought that the biggest audiophile sin was having an undriven speaker in the room. No joke. He actually believed that having a spare speaker or two in the room somehow "ruined" the sound.

Be sure to throw the scientific method at the claims you see out here. On one level, I find a lot of pleasure in the magical realism. Same reason I enjoy science fiction and fantasy. But you don't have to buy into a magical worldview or spend a lot of money to get excellent sound.

 
Erik, not sure if you read this:
 
http://www.shunyata.com/Content/DTCD.html
 
Likely just marketing for the masses. 
 
But you are absolutely right: power cords should be one of the very last things you look at. I got all mine dirt cheap and used. All I can tell is that my tube amps seem to run a wee bit cooler with them. My ears can't really detect anything. And the new digital sources are all pretty darn good. My $200 USB Thingee was remarkably good next to my DacMagic (now sold) and PS Audio DLIII (soon to be for sale later this week). I would look at the amp first, source second too.
 
To the OP:
 
With all the amps I've heard with the T1s, the WA2 has the best synergy with them (and with plenty of headroom to spare). As good synergy as my MAD/RSI1i pairing. I prefer the T1s with tubes almost always.
 

 

[khaos974]

Quote:

Erik, not sure if you read this:
 
http://www.shunyata.com/Content/DTCD.html

3 things:
 

1. they are using currents above 100 A, that's more than 10,000 W with 110V AC.
2. the capacitors inside your power supply actually have a use.
   
3. I'm curious about the results they'd get simply by replacing the standard powercord with one with a larger diameter, they may even get the results they get with their $5000 one.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

Quote:

Erik, not sure if you read this:
 
http://www.shunyata.com/Content/DTCD.html

3 things:
 

1. they are using currents above 100 A, that's more than 10,000 W with 110V AC.
2. the capacitors inside your power supply actually have a use.
   
3. I'm curious about the results they'd get simply by replacing the standard powercord with one with a larger diameter, they may even get the results they get with their $5000 one.

FYI....I am not a proponent of power cables (rather the opposite), I agree with you. I was just responding to Erik's comments as that link is the only one that I can find that tries to take measurements and show differences with power cords.

 

[khaos974]

Well cables always had measurable differences, but whether you could hear them is another matter since the differences are ridiculously insignificant in the audio range.
 
Actually, considering we can detect neutrinos (which is a particle that goes through the entire Earth without interacting all all 99.999999999999999...% of the time), I'd say that the precision of measuring instruments has reached such a level that whatever we measure we will always find a measurable difference with a reasonable degree of certainty provided we invest sufficiently in the measuring gear and procedure.

 

[HeadCred]

Quote:

...Actually, considering we can detect neutrinos (which is a particle that goes through the entire Earth without interacting all all 99.999999999999999...% of the time), I'd say that the precision of measuring instruments has reached such a level that whatever we measure we will always find a measurable difference with a reasonable degree of certainty provided we invest sufficiently in the measuring gear and procedure.

Um... yea, they pumped thousands of liters of heavy water into an abandoned mine and might have found a couple.

 

[khaos974]

Quote:

Well cables always had measurable differences, but whether you could hear them is another matter since the differences are ridiculously insignificant in the audio range.
 
Actually, considering we can detect neutrinos (which is a particle that goes through the entire Earth without interacting all all 99.999999999999999...% of the time), I'd say that the precision of measuring instruments has reached such a level that whatever we measure we will always find a measurable difference with a reasonable degree of certainty provided we invest sufficiently in the measuring gear and procedure.

 
Quote:

Um... yea, they pumped thousands of liters of heavy water into an abandoned mine a couple.

I didn't say the contrary, cf. what is bolded.

 

[rgs9200m]

Well, I didn't mean to start WW III here, but, just to my ears, Shunyata vs. Stealth vs. Kimber vs. TG vs. Telwire are like night and day and span from unlistenable to great in various parts of the sound profile.
Beware, some of the expensive cords can sound very bright/brittle/nervous or have boomy/opaque bass. I just know what my ears tell me, and I've been doing this with careful
A/B tests for 15 years now. Try putting an all-silver power cable or interconnect on your source and see what happens if you don't think it matters (Audioquest made some of
these back in the 90s).
 
As far a measurements go, Consumer Reports has maintained for decades that the way a loudspeaker sounds is mainly determined my it's "accuracy" measurements
in an anechoic chamber. They would probably say the same for headphones. Maybe measurements can find frequency spikes or decay profile, but your ears
hear way more than some graph shows. Give your own ears and sensory perceptions some credit; your ears are many million years in the making.