[Leonardo Drummond]

Hello guys,
I'm sorry about asking this question, I know it's been discussed a few times, but I couldn't find anything specific comparing them to any headphone I know - so I just know that one has more than the other.
I'm about to buy one of those earphones but I'd like to know a bit more specifically how they behave in the bass department. So, if possible, I'd like to ask anyone who's had any experience with both the 13's and the 16's and at least one of the other headphones I have, so that I can have a conclusive idea of the bass quantity in each of the earphones. I currently own a bass-heavy K1000, a K701, an SE530 and an IE8. The K1000s, being driven by a Cambridge 340A SE (yes, I know... that'll do for now, though), have a nice bass quantity, maybe a tiny bit too much. The K701, out of a Little Dot MKIII sounds almost perfect to me in this regard - the bass has weight and presence when it needs to have, but it could have a bit more presence. The SE530 out of an iPod Classic sounds good as well, but sometimes I wish it had just a bit more because the mids are really forward so at a good "mids listening volume", so to speak, bass could be that tiny little bit stronger. The IE8, on the other hand, sounds simply unbearable out of the iPod, it's just overwhelming bass. With the Bass Reducer eq on the iPod it sounds fine, although it cuts it a bit too much. However, with the Comply foam tips, which seem to enhance the bass, it compensates for this and becomes adequate. Note that these impressions are with the Classic, the iPod Video 5.5G has less bass and the IE8 sounds kind of fine on them.
Which do you guys think I should choose? I don't like too much bass, but after reading about so many people saying that the JH16 have much better bass and show how it should be reproduced, I became confused. As much as I like bass (and I like it, especially sub-bass), I just can't stand it being in front of everything else. I like it to be there when it needs to be, with the wheight it needs to have. To me, the K1000s response, or the K701's or SE530s with a bit more bass would be ideal. How does the bass quantity on each earphone compare to any of those headphones I currently own?
Thank you all in advance!

 

[goodvibes]

Get the 13. More neutral IMO and should fit what you're looking for.

 

[violinvirtuoso]

Though it is not a substitute for actually listening to the headphones (or talking to other people), a freq response graph should give you a general idea.

 

[Trysaeder]

I think JH quoted +2 dB at 50 hz. It's only $50 more and you can equalize it down if you want the JH13.

 

[Leonardo Drummond]

Thanks guys!
To be honest, a frequency graph is EXACTLY what I'm looking for, because I know that the main difference is just bass, so it would give me a pretty good idea of how it is quantity-wise. Headroom has graphs for most of the headphones they sell, but they don't have them for JH products... +2 dB sounds like quite a considerable difference, and I'm worried about equalizing it down since I'll use it with an iPod, which doesn't give me many options. I am incline towards the 13, but I just don't know if I would like the 16 more for some reason... there was a post from a guy here comparing the two and he pretty much said that the 16 is better in almost every way! Many people say that it has an increased headroom. What does that mean?

 

[JxK]

+2db isn't alot. For reference, it normally takes a 10db difference for us to perceive a doubling of volume. Also, remember that decibels are based upon a logarithmic scale, not a linear one. So a 2db increase is much much further from 10 than an 8db increase would be.

 

[Kunlun]

Quote:

+2db isn't alot.

It's an audible difference, obviously.

 

[goodvibes]

It's quite noticeable on audition. Sounds to be up above 100hz also and does warm the mids.

 

[warp08]

Quote:

 I am incline towards the 13, but I just don't know if I would like the 16 more for some reason... there was a post from a guy here comparing the two and he pretty much said that the 16 is better in almost every way! Many people say that it has an increased headroom. What does that mean?

Increased headroom in case of the JH16 vs the JH13 means that it is better able to present the effect of a kick-drum, for example, during a live performance or even in case of a reference quality recording.  The JH16 is an interesting enigma, because it does present a mid-bass hump of about 6 db over the JH13s but it doesn't obscure the rest of the sound spectrum the way a lower quality IEM would.  A relatively poor quality source, such as most standard iPods simply source limit and thus, shortchange the true potential of either of these amazing IEMs.  So are the stock cables for that matter.
 
Still, if you are happy with the performance of a bass-heavy series AKG K1K, you will most likely be more closely matched to the JH13s.
 
Another option is to go for the JH-3A, when available, with the JH16 option.  You can then set whatever DSP preset you think best compatible with your preferences or the particular recording you're listening to.  You should never need to use EQ on a properly matched system to your hearing and listening preferences, perhaps with the sole exception being to compensate for a deficiency in the mastering of the recording.

 

[Leonardo Drummond]

Thanks again to everyone for clarifying everything!!
It does seem to be a considerable difference, even if it's just on practical terms since, as JxK stated, in theory it's not much.
 
warp08, thanks for the detailed information! I really didn't know which way to go because as much as I think a bit of bass energy (in relative terms, no more than the K1000 - to me it has plenty already) can give certain pieces of music some more excitement, in really calm and "thin" acoustic pieces, like Joanna Newsom for instance, they take away the delicateness of the music - and to me, this ruins the experience! That's basically my dilemma. I'm sure I'll be satisfied with the 13, but at the same time I kept asking myself whether I would like the 16 more. But then, getting the 16 would be risky, because unlike the 13, I think, not liking it is a possibility. But now I'm convinced that I'll be happier with the 13 route, at least with most music genres!
I would love to get the JH-3A, but unfortunately it goes some way beyond my budget! Also, following suggestions from a Brazilian friend and what you said about the cables, I think I'll get a Null Audio cable for the 13, especially as I'll save some money getting it instead of the 16.
Also, may I also say that I've read some of your reviews, and I've really enjoyed reading them, thank you for them!! And, obviously, congratulations for your amazing equipment!

 

[warp08]

Quote:

 
I think I'll get a Null Audio cable for the 13, especially as I'll save some money getting it instead of the 16.
Also, may I also say that I've read some of your reviews, and I've really enjoyed reading them, thank you for them!! And, obviously, congratulations for your amazing equipment!

Sure, thanks.  Let me know how those Null Audio cables work out for you, I've never listened to those.  I love the TWags, pricy, but I've yet to hear a better cable.  But then again, I have them almost everywhere, except power and some specialty cables, mostly digital.
 
You can't go wrong with the 13s, very neutral, balanced IEMs, pretty good soundstage especially out of a balanced amp, but not as super-wide as your K1Ks.  Different but equally as satisfying experience on the go.  Make sure your audiologist had followed precisely the JHA instructions on their Ordering website and your fit should be perfect.

 

[Leonardo Drummond]

I'll let you know how they sound! I was told that it increases the overall resolution and makes them sound less congested. Not that they are congested in the first place, but it improves on that area.
I'm sure it will give me a completely different experience; in fact, before getting the K1000, I was convinced that I had to get the 13s, but then I got the K701 and learned how airy and spacious a full-size headphone could sound. I was used to the IE8 and SE530, which, being IEMs of course, feel really closed. I mean, this is good sometimes, but I found that I enjoy the openness more. But then, as I got those AKGs (I still really like the K701), and some new speakers (Jamo R907, I'm really loving them) the sound of those IEMs started to sort of detract me from the music, because they were just miles behind the other headphones and of course the speakers. The IE8 sounds really dark to me and it has a very artificial bass, even with the Bass Reducer eq; it just sounds weird... it's like they have a ball shape, it's really hard to explain. The Shures, on the other hand, sound really constricted and seem to have no treble.
And well, the truth is that the moments where I really dedicate everything to the music is when I'm on the go, so I thought it would be nice to get some very good IEMs. I'll try and have some impressions made next week!
Thanks a lot for your help, warp08!
Leo