[HeadphoneAddict]

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I've been lurking around, so I'm not exactly new to this forum. But I saw this topic on JH16s and ES5, and having just received my ES5 a few weeks back, I hope I'll be able to help by giving opinions on it compared to my JH16s.
 
Some history. I was at Can Jam in Chicago last year, and I tried the ES5, JH13, JH16 demos. I had a listen between the ES5 demos, and it left a very big impression on me with its forward mid range, meaning it was really good for female vocals which I listen to a lot. However, it was not yet released then, and the JH16s were the only ones with a promotion along with free ear impressions, so that was the path I went,
 
Fast forward to 6 months later: I was using my JH16s mostly from the output from my portable players and my laptop onboard sound, and I was kind of satisfied, but I always felt something was missing from the vocals. The thumping bass kind of overpowers the music. I was constantly thinking of the ES5 and its mid range, so I got it, and along with it, a uDAC-2, and a pair of ALO SXC cables.
 
The uDAC-2 came first, followed by the cables. My ES5s were still in the lab at that time, so I applied these upgrades to my JH16s one stage a time. The uDAC-2 brought my JH16s to a new level, which was not surprising having came from onboard sound. I listen to a lot of live orchestral music, and enjoy lots of instruments playing at the same time. The layering of the instruments really brought out the potential of the JH16s. And I would have been satisfied at this point, but..
 
The ALO SXC cables came next. I was planning to use them with my soon-to-arrive ES5s, but I wanted to see how it would go with the JH16s. I guess I wasn't prepared for the improvement. It was day and night over the stock cable. That was really a moment when I finally understood the satisfaction of bringing the equipment to the next level. The improved sound staging, bass control, and clarity.. it left a bigger impression on me than the uDAC-2 upgrade. At this point, I was totally satisfied with my set up. I started to realize that the flaws I saw in the JH16s have been fixed, and I started to wonder if I should have bought my ES5s.
 
The ES5s came half a week later. It sounded as I had remembered from 6 months back. Smooth, lush mid range. However, I lost all excitement for it, most of it having gone towards upgrading my JH16 setup. A point that was constantly brought up about ES5s was that the bass was not lacking. That I have to agree. However, the bass on the JH16, when it is well controlled, and layered from the rest of the music, it's really addictive. I'm really biased towards the JH16s now, but I can't dismiss the ES5s, as they're two totally different animals. It's a personal preference, and I just find myself grabbing my JH16s most of the time out of my uDAC2. I leave my ES5s for use with my portable players, as they're lighter, slightly smaller, and sound better unamped.
 
I could go into more details, but post is getting long. Main point here, is that if you're deciding between the JH16s and the ES5s, It's a personal preference thing. But for those who have one of the JHs, and are planning to get other IEMs, it would be a nice idea to try changing the source/cables, and be surprised at what those could do to the JHs. A much bigger satisfaction than hopping on another path, and it's probably the cheaper solution as well. Just my two cents.

Great 1st post.  How do you like the ES5 with uDAC-2 and ALO cable?

 

[b0ck3n]

In my previous post I stated that impressions were from universal fit demos straight out of my iPhone, and that they should be taken with a grain of salt. However since both the ES5s and JH16 were auditioned under the same circumstances I don't feel like I've been unfair to either product.

You have extensive experience of both the ES5 and JH13 - does your request for a disclaimer imply that you don't agree with my findings?

Edit: I didn't find any flaws with either the ES5 or the JH16, it's merely a case of preferring one sound signature before the other.

Please clarify if you are talking about the universal fit demos or if you have have actual fitted ES5 and JH16.  Because the demos give an approximation of the final sound, but any flaws you hear with the demos are usually gone with the proper full custom.

 

[dj nellie]

Thanks for posting your impressions, Tooki.  The truth is that I'm in love with my JH16s, and there isn't much I would change about them.  I already have a pretty sweet setup, with TWag cables, balanced SR71b amp, and some good sources (HM-801, WhipMOD, Lavry DA10).  I definitely agree that getting a high quality aftermarket cable, especially a balanced one, turns the JH16s into absolute beasts--stunning bass extension and control, crystal-clear transparency, and the widest soundstage that I can imagine IEMs having.
 
My problem is that I couldn't get a 100%, or even 90%, proper fit on my right side.  This was after 4 adjustments, then a 2nd set of impressions, then another 4 or so adjustments.  In order to get the right side to isolate as well as the left, I lose a lot of openness to the sound, and it becomes muffled.  I can get a pretty good sound with a complex method of insertion that I can't always replicate, whereas my left piece just snaps into place no matter how I put it in.  (My audiologist is very experienced, is recommended by JHA, Westone, and UE, and has done probably hundreds if not thousands of impressions.)
 
I don't know that Westone could do any better, and judging from my experience with Westone's UM-56 custom tips for my Westone 3 (many refits), I'm probably in for a similar experience.  I guess part of me is hoping that Westone will get the fit right within 2-3 adjustments, and the vinyl tips will be more comfortable, better isolating, and less irritating to my ears (my ears are especially prone to itchiness).  I'm also hoping that the ES5 will complement the JH16 in some way, without being noticeably less capable at any aspect of resolution.
 
However, the more headphones I hear, the more I realize just how neutral the JH16 (balanced with the Protector/SR71b) really are.  I've never noticed any hint of the bass bloat or bleed that some have complained about, but then again I don't use them for mixing/monitoring and I have some upgraded components.  The JH16s manage to maintain a nice equilibrium between the frequencies, such that (with well-recorded music) no range sticks out to me as artificially tipped or harsh.  My concern is that the "lush" midrange of the ES5 will sound unnatural to me after so many months of the JH16, and I'll have to sacrifice some treble/bass extension or presence to get it.
 
Unfortunately, my audiologist doesn't have demos of the ES5, so I have to take a leap of faith.  There are comparatively so few impressions posted of the ES5 compared to JH13/16, and the fact that about 4-5 people have complained on Head-fi about their earpieces failing (out of what I'm wildly estimating to be about 30 people who have posted that they own the ES5), does not give me any comfort.  Westone seems like a great company, and I loved the Westone 3--although in retrospect, I can see just how colored and V-shaped they were.
 
All of this is to say that I'm really starting to have cold feet about getting molds taken today for the ES5...

 

[blanket]

my jh16s have shipped....again
i hope the fit would be perfect this time!
 
big thanks to Noy

 

[x101xtreme]

I can't wait till they ship out my JH 16's. They should be getting my impressions sometime tomorrow. About how long did you guys have to wait after they recieved your impressions?

 

[aLm0sT]

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I can't wait till they ship out my JH 16's. They should be getting my impressions sometime tomorrow. About how long did you guys have to wait after they recieved your impressions?

2 days assembly + 1 week shipping (EU)

 

[x101xtreme]

wow, I'm hoping it doesn't take 1 week for shipping to the west coast, but it seems like it will. I mailed out my impressions last friday, but they won't receive them until tomorrow. Hopefully, the process will be worth it.

 

[Tooki]

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Great 1st post.  How do you like the ES5 with uDAC-2 and ALO cable?

 
 
It's a definite upgrade over the stock cable. I've got the ALO OCC cables too. In order of preference, it was SXC, followed by OCC, followed by stock cables. This was the case for both my JH16s and ES5s. For SXC, the wider sound stage, instrument separation, and tighter bass were apparent. The OCC, however, was a disappointment, as it sounded too boomy for my liking. And it was heavy too, so I just reverted my ES5 back to stock cables for portable use.
 
I was most amazed when i changed from stock to SXC on my JH16s. Maybe, that's because I wasn't expecting much, knowing that cables should be last in the order of upgrades, and the surprise it gave was really good. SXCs vs the stock was an obvious difference, but it's hard for me to quantify how much of an upgrade it was. I'll have to give the ES5 + SXC more critical listening before I comment more. The the SXCs are spending most of their time on my JH16s.
 
The issues I had with the uDAC-2 was the hiss. And the volume imbalance below 9-10 o'clock. Those were the main issues. Other than that, I'm really satisfied for the price I paid for it.
 
These are my initial impressions. But let me listen more, and for my excitement to die down, before I can give a more clear headed comparison.

 

[cegli]

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I can't wait till they ship out my JH 16's. They should be getting my impressions sometime tomorrow. About how long did you guys have to wait after they recieved your impressions?

Mine only took 24 hours for them to have them shipped out!  That was last thursday.  I'm still waiting for them to come to Canada.  UPS had a "Guaranteed" Delivery date of monday.  A day later they delayed the delivery to Tuesday, making me wonder what "guaranteed" means, haha.  Mine were very simple though, no art, black eye blue.

 

[b0ck3n]

Would you mind linking the SXC cable? I see their SXC LOD but no earphone cable. Thanks.

 
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It's a definite upgrade over the stock cable. I've got the ALO OCC cables too. In order of preference, it was SXC, followed by OCC, followed by stock cables. This was the case for both my JH16s and ES5s. For SXC, the wider sound stage, instrument separation, and tighter bass were apparent. The OCC, however, was a disappointment, as it sounded too boomy for my liking. And it was heavy too, so I just reverted my ES5 back to stock cables for portable use.
 
I was most amazed when i changed from stock to SXC on my JH16s. Maybe, that's because I wasn't expecting much, knowing that cables should be last in the order of upgrades, and the surprise it gave was really good. SXCs vs the stock was an obvious difference, but it's hard for me to quantify how much of an upgrade it was. I'll have to give the ES5 + SXC more critical listening before I comment more. The the SXCs are spending most of their time on my JH16s.
 
The issues I had with the uDAC-2 was the hiss. And the volume imbalance below 9-10 o'clock. Those were the main issues. Other than that, I'm really satisfied for the price I paid for it.
 
These are my initial impressions. But let me listen more, and for my excitement to die down, before I can give a more clear headed comparison.

 

[Tooki]

This is the one:
 
http://www.aloaudio.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_13&products_id=423

I noticed the lack of comments on the ALO cables, that's why I just went for them. I figured it'll be easier to find people with the Whiplash cables at meets and I'll try them out then. Or I might eventually save up for one.

On a side note, spending on a high end IEM + cable + amp + dac way exceeds the cost of the JH-3A. But getting it kind of kills the fun. I heard the demo at Can Jam Chicago last year. It was different league altogether.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

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In my previous post I stated that impressions were from universal fit demos straight out of my iPhone, and that they should be taken with a grain of salt. However since both the ES5s and JH16 were auditioned under the same circumstances I don't feel like I've been unfair to either product.

You have extensive experience of both the ES5 and JH13 - does your request for a disclaimer imply that you don't agree with my findings?

Edit: I didn't find any flaws with either the ES5 or the JH16, it's merely a case of preferring one sound signature before the other.


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Please clarify if you are talking about the universal fit demos or if you have have actual fitted ES5 and JH16.  Because the demos give an approximation of the final sound, but any flaws you hear with the demos are usually gone with the proper full custom.

 

Well, you said, "...but it is mid forward and the highs will seem rolled off at first - if you're like me used to bright and sparkly highs and quite enjoy them that way. ES5 is just very smooth and laid back. I tried the W3, UM3x and ES5 back-to-back, and I felt that the ES5 sounded alot like the UM3x, but it does everything alot better."
 
1) My ES5 Mids are more forward than my JH13Pro or W3, but less forward than the UM3X and ES3X, and I don't think they sound like the ES3X or UM3X.  I do agree the ES5 demo was much better than the UM3X.  I also think the ES5 demo that I heard are still a little better than the new W4 as well, but they couldn't fit the ES5 drivers in a universal shell for production.
 
2) You said the ES5 highs seemed rolled off, but mine are very present and sparkly and extended.  The demo ES5 might be rolled off, but not the full custom.

 

[b0ck3n]

I said that ES5s seemed rolled off at first, coming straight from the JH16. The demo ES5 simply had smoother and more laid back highs than the demo JH16, further accentuating their mid forwardness. When switching back to JH16 demo I found its highs to be more prominent in the mix, a little brighter and sparkly but not aggressive. My hearing seems to extend further up top than down low, if that makes sense.

Edit: I'm back at the shop and just gave the ES5 demo another listen. It does have rolled off highs - I asked the manager to try them and he agreed but was quick to attribute it to it being a demo universal. I have to say that it's a sound that's growing on me though, especially on accoustic music.

 

[caracara08]

got my 16s in a while ago.  the build quality looks very good.  they stick out a little bit at the top of my ear but its okay.  sound wise, they sound great but havent been completely wowed yet.  is there a burn in period for these? sorry, its my first custom, actually.. first high end anything.

 

[Chrisbay]

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got my 16s in a while ago.  the build quality looks very good.  they stick out a little bit at the top of my ear but its okay.  sound wise, they sound great but havent been completely wowed yet.  is there a burn in period for these? sorry, its my first custom, actually.. first high end anything.

There's no such thing as "burn in". 
It's you (the listener) who gets adjusted after a while.