[tigon_ridge]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5aces /img/forum/go_quote.gif Seoul.Dec.13.09 Sony PCM D50,straight up[Flac 16/44.1]: Drum Solo

What the...?

I just downloaded and listened to your live recording through my uDAC + RE0... It sounds terrible. Is this how most live recordings are supposed to sound? This leads me to suspect that the music you've been listening to may have been recorded in the stone age. I recommend testing out a well-recorded song from one of those few websites that sell downloadable high quality flac files, or just buying a great CD that people around here recommend and suggest as recorded with the utmost quality. A good way to appreciate the quality of your customs may be to listen to complex passages where 5 or more instruments are playing at the same time. That should reveal just how well your JH13's can resolve lots of signals. You might be shocked by how well you can hear each instrument. It's almost heart-breaking to read that you invested so much money and patience into your customs, only to still be so disappointed.

 

[BoogieWoogie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5aces /img/forum/go_quote.gif Seoul.Dec.13.09 Sony PCM D50,straight up[Flac 16/44.1]: Drum Solo

Holy crap that must be the worse flac I ever heard in all my life even 120kbs mp3 sound better I can see now why you are dissapointed with JH13 I would be too listening to that.

 

[5aces]

Ahh...too funny!

Actually,since shigzeo was from South Korea and had a previous interest in concert taping,I indulged with this (not my handiwork):

"I got raw WAV files,split it song by song, converted to FLAC(High, 16 bit, stereo) by Goldwave V.5.08."
2009.12.13 Olympic Park Gymnastics Stadium, Seoul, Korea

GUNS N ROSES
Source: Olympic Park Gymnastics Stadium, Seoul, Korea
Date: December 13th 2009
Sound Quality: B
TYPE: AUDIENCE
Linage: Sony PCM-M10 > to pc program needed > goldwave > flac

I know this type of 'bootlegging' is VERBOTEN here on Head-Fi,so I used a truncated clip.

My apologies however,as I had listed the source as a Sony PCM D50 when in fact,it was NOT.

Obviously the little brother Sony PCM M10 held up into the air for a freestyle audience recording,leaves much to be desired.

Certainly,it does not represent the quality of recordings that I auditioned the JH-13's with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigon_ridge /img/forum/go_quote.gif It sounds terrible. Is this how most live recordings are supposed to sound? This leads me to suspect that the music you've been listening to may have been recorded in the stone age.

I can only add that I was around for the world of underground recording in the 1970's-which might be the stone age for some and long before P2P sharing.

After a concert that you could not afford or obtain a ticket to,you could relive the event vicariously through a home made tape.

These were obtained after a trek to local underground record/head shops on Queen Street here in Toronto and after some "in the know" conversation,out would come the litigous music collection-some of it even cut onto vinyl!

You are correct in the "it sounds terrible" reaction but for a diehard fan,it was enough.

No doubt in my mind if the recorder HAD been the PCM D50,the sound quality would have jumped up a grade.

Back to the “old days” when you aspired to purchase the next level of phono cartridge and direct-to-disc recordings,so it is today that Hi-Rez music files and a top D/A converter are on the listeners wish list.

My latest foray into portable audio has been fraught with plenty of discontent.

Perhaps it is the inordinate amount of time spent listening as such:

Truly,I am a seeker of the ultimate "PHANTOM IMAGE".

Just as LSD affords the senses opportunity to feel color and see sound,so I await the transcendental moment where the sound waves disintegrate the very fibres of my cotton clothes and I lose control of my basic bodily functions while the music implodes the core of my soul.

Unfortunately,this happens at 235 decibles,more powerful than the shockwaves of a 31 kiloton nuclear bomb.

The downside is that it will kill you.

Perfection awaits when the crossovers from those 3-way speakers are out and each frequency is wired with solid silver core to 6 magnificent tube amplifiers,back to a beautiful Vacuum Tube Electronic Crossover Network,then onto a fantastic source but that's just me.

All I have to report on the JH-13's after the past 20 days,is that when I moved my ass off the listening stool,actually plugging in and getting outside for a long walk,I was amply rewarded.

MOVEMENT while listening to no less than MP3 320 bit files on a Garmin 765T GPS or on the amped Sansa Fuze with CD quality .WAV files,seemed to change my opinion of this stuff.

I have now taken to going for long walks and look forward to putting the gear into my pocket and seating the newly reshaped 13's into my skull.

While I have accepted the experience will not get me to 3D holographic ecstasy,key moments in musical fidelity are there to be found as the playlist randomly selects songs.

Standing up,getting the blood flowing and synapses firing is key to using these things,so that you do not so readily become annoyed with the new sound flavour.

Realizing that a helicopter could very well be hovering over to my right when the intro from Sugarcane [Wide Mouth Mason] played, brought a certain term of endearment as I marched down the street.

WideMouthMason sample 192 bit

Finally,I was getting somewhere with this damned stuff!

Locomotive Breath [Jethro Tull] brought the flute solo from the "phantom image" to right INSIDE my head and I reckon that is what I was not tuned into while planted in a seat,walking really seemed to level this effect out.

JethroTull sample big CD wav file-wait

Remember-these are 'samples' and not the original files from the player.

I guess us men are 'external' creatures by virtue of our very existence.

Ask the man who took Viagara and achieved only a full headache.

He dearly wanted to be the poster boy for those clinical warnings:

“if you experience an erection for more than 4 hours please go to the nearest hospital and seek medical attention”.

I've often thought who would have the nerve to go seek that medical attention?

After seeking the medical attention of a hot nurse would you still be bored stiff?

Priapism and sound,full on and raging.

My Sony PCM D50 deal fell through,thanks to an eBay debacle,so this saga moves forth slowly.

I'll wait until the Slim amp shows up,I'll keep playing the tunes,then check back in here.

 

[tigon_ridge]

Well, you, Sir, should try listening to some quality binaural (3D) recordings. It might be a bit difficult to find songs that suit your musical taste; but, if you want the ultimate "phantom image" experience, speakers (even dolby's) are a good step behind binaural recordings. You still won't feel the jiggling of your kidneys to the bass slams, however.

 

[5aces]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigon_ridge /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, you, Sir, should try listening to some quality binaural (3D) recordings.

Yes,I enjoy many 'noise' recordings and remain fascinated by the effect of auditory hallucinations.

Play this popular "Shaking Matchbox" sample over your best headphones and you likely will be swatting at the unseen ghost behind your head.

http://www.snapdrive.net/files/38791...ngMatchbox.wav

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigon_ridge /img/forum/go_quote.gif It might be a bit difficult to find songs that suit your musical taste

Truth be known,there is not much properly recorded material that does suit my tastes.

Last month,I purchased this work just to experience the quality of recording:



Product Description
This release marks the first multi-channel HDAD released by Classic Records as a two disc set. Disc one is the normal two sided DVD disc with 2-channel 24/192 data on the DVD-A side with 2-channel 24/96 data on the opposite side. The second disc in the package contains the multi-channel (four channel) data in the same configuration. That is, one side of disc two contains 4 channels of 24/96 data which is MLP (lossless) encoded and playable on multi-channel capable DVD-Audio players. Side two of disc two contains Dolby AC-3 encoded four channel surround data playable on DVD video players.

The multi-channel presentation, also transferred from the four track masters, represents a new standard in surround sound realism - close your eyes and be transported back to the actual event - or close to it. Highest recommendations!

So,here it is-a note to some MP3 recording engineers:
Stop recording, mixing, producing, etc. these s.h.i.t.t.y projects that you end up complaining about later,contributing to the 'decline' of music.

Someone slap me and bring me back to the JH-13 affair. O.K.-now...

I am waiting like the other 250 people to audition the Pico Slim Amplifier.
This particular investment in sound will push my Portable Audio taste test to over $t-w-o t-h-o-u-s-a-n-d$ dollars since I joined Head-Fi,Nov.2009.
Where does this leave me,you ask?

Here is Don Morrison,a long time Amplifier and Speaker builder from Toronto:

"Vast sums of money are spent on equipment and yet, the sound doesn't really improve until we use a correct recording.
With the usual multi mic mixdown of current recordings the net result is just a very exotic P.A. system.
An expensive system plays very loud and has the typical "in yer face" sort of reproduction.
It still sounds like a P.A. system. I suppose that 99% of the problem lies in the musical taste of the listener.
The sight of a middle aged audiophile parked in front of his $80,000 system while listening to some over produced rock album is pathetic.
With twanging electric guitars and screaming vocals squeezed through miles of microphone cables and hundreds of circuit boards the result is a totally incoherent soup.
Playing back this mess at levels that Helen Keller can hear is not the answer. Perhaps an improvement in musical taste might be a good start."

While I do not agree that I should have to change my musical tastes,only certain genres are well represented in the recording arts,as pointed out earlier.

• Poorly recorded material, especially lower bit rate MP3's are going to be exposed for what they are when played back through the JH-13's.Keep the bit rate up and you should be fine.

That means not only will you hear how bad the worst recordings really are, but they will also reveal basically all the weaknesses of the other components in your system.Hmm.

24/96 is not just giving more details,the whole system presents the music so lively and effortless.A more analog sound with the dynamic presented so naturally,for myself anyways,even on portable equipment.

"The sound quality of rock and roll is in desperate need of salvation.
..the Devil is mediocrity.
There is no refuting that MP3 music is thrilling in the same way that free 99 cent hamburgers are thrilling." [unknown]
Here ends my recording diatribe.

Amplifiers.
You can’t improve the quality of the signal generated by the output stage of your source, simply by adding an extra amplifier, not in any objective sense,can you?

Your headphone amp can’t amplify a frequency which isn’t there.

I found the iPod Touch was lacking in stock volume driving the JH-13's.

Looking forward to cranking a new headphone amp, which has the electrical design to support dynamic swings at high volume.

It’s always a fairly safe assumption that something will behave closer to an 'ideal' design at a lower fraction of its operating capability.

And then it comes down to a question of volume: if your source can drive your cans to an acceptable listening volume for you, then a headphone amp is not going to improve the objective quality of the sound you’re hearing.

I love to have extra power on tap,though I may not ever use all of it,the frightening thought of going deaf keeps me engaged in an odd,suspenseful way.

"I advise that you widen your gaze,I’m concerned you underestimate the gravity of coming events,you and I are bound together on a journey that will twist the very fabric of nature."
-from Sherlock Holmes

Insist on better recordings and demand quality equipment to play them on.

 

[FortisFlyer75]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5aces /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes,I enjoy many 'noise' recordings and remain fascinated by the effect of auditory hallucinations. Play this popular "Shaking Matchbox" sample over your best headphones and you likely will be swatting at the unseen ghost behind your head. http://www.snapdrive.net/files/38791...ngMatchbox.wav Truth be known,there is not much properly recorded material that does suit my tastes. Last month,I purchased this work just to experience the quality of recording: Product Description This release marks the first multi-channel HDAD released by Classic Records as a two disc set. Disc one is the normal two sided DVD disc with 2-channel 24/192 data on the DVD-A side with 2-channel 24/96 data on the opposite side. The second disc in the package contains the multi-channel (four channel) data in the same configuration. That is, one side of disc two contains 4 channels of 24/96 data which is MLP (lossless) encoded and playable on multi-channel capable DVD-Audio players. Side two of disc two contains Dolby AC-3 encoded four channel surround data playable on DVD video players. The multi-channel presentation, also transferred from the four track masters, represents a new standard in surround sound realism - close your eyes and be transported back to the actual event - or close to it. Highest recommendations! So,here it is-a note to some MP3 recording engineers: Stop recording, mixing, producing, etc. these s.h.i.t.t.y projects that you end up complaining about later,contributing to the 'decline' of music. Someone slap me and bring me back to the JH-13 affair. O.K.-now... I am waiting like the other 250 people to audition the Pico Slim Amplifier. This particular investment in sound will push my Portable Audio taste test to over $t-w-o t-h-o-u-s-a-n-d$ dollars since I joined Head-Fi,Nov.2009. Where does this leave me,you ask? Here is Don Morrison,a long time Amplifier and Speaker builder from Toronto: "Vast sums of money are spent on equipment and yet, the sound doesn't really improve until we use a correct recording. With the usual multi mic mixdown of current recordings the net result is just a very exotic P.A. system. An expensive system plays very loud and has the typical "in yer face" sort of reproduction. It still sounds like a P.A. system. I suppose that 99% of the problem lies in the musical taste of the listener. The sight of a middle aged audiophile parked in front of his $80,000 system while listening to some over produced rock album is pathetic. With twanging electric guitars and screaming vocals squeezed through miles of microphone cables and hundreds of circuit boards the result is a totally incoherent soup. Playing back this mess at levels that Helen Keller can hear is not the answer. Perhaps an improvement in musical taste might be a good start." While I do not agree that I should have to change my musical tastes,only certain genres are well represented in the recording arts,as pointed out earlier. • Poorly recorded material, especially lower bit rate MP3's are going to be exposed for what they are when played back through the JH-13's.Keep the bit rate up and you should be fine. That means not only will you hear how bad the worst recordings really are, but they will also reveal basically all the weaknesses of the other components in your system.Hmm. 24/96 is not just giving more details,the whole system presents the music so lively and effortless.A more analog sound with the dynamic presented so naturally,for myself anyways,even on portable equipment. "The sound quality of rock and roll is in desperate need of salvation. ..the Devil is mediocrity. There is no refuting that MP3 music is thrilling in the same way that free 99 cent hamburgers are thrilling." [unknown] Here ends my recording diatribe. Amplifiers. You can’t improve the quality of the signal generated by the output stage of your source, simply by adding an extra amplifier, not in any objective sense,can you? Your headphone amp can’t amplify a frequency which isn’t there. I found the iPod Touch was lacking in stock volume driving the JH-13's. Looking forward to cranking a new headphone amp, which has the electrical design to support dynamic swings at high volume. It’s always a fairly safe assumption that something will behave closer to an 'ideal' design at a lower fraction of its operating capability. And then it comes down to a question of volume: if your source can drive your cans to an acceptable listening volume for you, then a headphone amp is not going to improve the objective quality of the sound you’re hearing. I love to have extra power on tap,though I may not ever use all of it,the frightening thought of going deaf keeps me engaged in an odd,suspenseful way. "I advise that you widen your gaze,I’m concerned you underestimate the gravity of coming events,you and I are bound together on a journey that will twist the very fabric of nature." -from Sherlock Holmes Insist on better recordings and demand quality equipment to play them on.

Here, Here 5 aces, this is why i wait for Japanese pressed cd's to come out, better quality mastering and discs = how it should sound.

Having a similar debate on another thread about why people are using EQ settings on their dap to make it sound better, the irony really kills me! (not literally, yet anyhow)

Not sure if some users are in denial of the culprit wether it the source or iem's with cable choice in between are not what they expected so they just slam the EQ's all over the place like flicking a switch to arm a nuclear armament of music pollutants!

They are then happy with the tweak they have made, to me this negates the whole point of buying the right equipment for how it actually sounds naturally.

For me the only place for eq's if any when in the right hands is at the mastering stage n the studio and not on a dap.

Maybe they put them on daps because of the crap quality of recordings, so you just end up doing their job for them? Hmm?

Anyway, this brings me back around to your point, that i got p***** off with so many crappy EU pressed recordings and the bigger picture that music companys think about with mass selling artist anyhow of the bottom line profit and produce it cheaply as they think we all listen to our music in £19.99 toasters with 18 eq settings and pretty lights as if it where X-mas! - with the exception it seems of classical, blues, jazz genre cd pressings like you touched upon is the reason i switched to a lot of Japanese (sometimes Taiwanese also) pressed cd's.

And with the mp3 generation who does download this down gradded quality of
half the information present to our ears "i might as well be deaf then" the majority of that population will suffice for what ever reason to use £19.99 toasters with one speaker to listen to them on, and why i understand not every one can have the luxury of splurging money on a hobby full stop let alone one like this why should the record company's be allowed to contradict bands to be heard by the masses but then suppress the source format we buy it on so we cannot enjoy it as its potential best sound quality.
Does not make any sense to my simple sponge of a brain as to why even though i think i do!

So for us pure audiophilist that strive for the best possible chance of having the tools to do the job to make the music sing, i am afraid my friend we are in the MINORITY when it comes to this hobby which is dictated to us by the record companys ever expanding waistlines with the profits they bank for the boss hogs and having to justify contracting artist like R.Williams to 80 gazzellion dollars over x amount of albums for singing out of tune all affects why us serious dedicators of high fidelity sound will for now and the forseable future struggle to get widely available descent recordings.

So why Japan take their mastering of compact disc on a serious level is one that i have no idea (maybe someone can answer that conundrum), but i am glad they do for whichever reason this may be and painstakingly wait for some titles to be released on Japanese pressing a few weeks after the UK release date, but is well worth the wait (and weight in gold).

I may of just ranted on a bit there like a grumpy old man who is still in his thirties, but why can't the industry take sound quality as serious as their cost saving exercises to make bigger profit baffles me.

But... this is why i am still going to shell out 1k on the JH13 or 16's soon followed by a twag cable for it and then a porta amp in either maybe the Pico slim, Alo Rx or TTVJ slim because when i here examples like Fleety Mac Rumours (remastered) or Yello - The Flag (remastered), or japanese pressed discs with The Eagles, Ben Harper, Aerosmith, Sarah Mclachlan, Tori Amos to name a few all hit my earual G-spot when it is mastered right with the best quality pressing technology incorporated makes it all worth while being counted as the Minority when it comes to taking high fidelity seriously.
The pain is worth it, and i thought i was the only person that was paraniod about quality of recordings.

Wish i never read your post now 5aces!

 

[shigzeo]

Wow! I love self-made recordings and surprisingly, they can get quite good, but of course, they will sound more or less like how it sounded. Concerts never sound as good as recorded studio stuff, and never sound as good as the stuff which comes from the soundboard (I used to be a concert soundboard 'engineer' too). But a good taped concert is far more...

Beatiful as it captures your moment and where you stood - a mastered recording doesn't have that magic, though technically, it sounds better. It however, doesn't sound like the concert at all: there are no voices around you, no one asking for drinks, no crying, and very little shouts from the fans which make it beatuful.

That said, the JH13Pro isn't a fully flat earphone. Its base seems to be boosted about 10 decibels with a flat midrange and then descending treble which peaks in a good place. And that is primarily why it sounds good (or should sound good). Most people's ears are attenuated in exactly those places. I'd imagine a very young person would be different, however, and would fine more linearity in an earphone which is flat, but for the 99% of JH13Pro listeners, it sounds flat in its setup.

 

[5aces]

Today,July 09,2010 I've finally seen the Pico Slim arrive at the doorstep,a long way from the December 2009 preorder.
 
After parting with another $20.34 to cover Canadian Tax and Canada Post "special handling" fees this petite amplifier was in my hands.
 
I charged it up for 3 hours and have only used it for an hour but it sure delivers a solid signal to the JH 13's.
 
Definitely can put a ring to your ears if you max it out for even a short time,so I'm taking a break to upload.
 
Here are a few pictures with an assortment of configurations for your reference.
 

 
Perched on top of the NuForce Icon Mobile Dac/Amp the Pico Slim redefines the term 'Portable'.
 
I'd like a smaller,right angled jack for the monitor cables now.
 
Could this be the missing link for these JH 13's?....btw some of these pics are darn near spot on for actual size or at least very close to the perspective.

 

[5aces]

Recounting the tale of what happened next...
 
Like most audiophiles we always suspect there is more just beyond our reach.
 
I agree that striving for the best system is a fool's errand that will only result in unhappiness with whatever system you currently have.
 
I do enjoy some of the humorous comments like: "O.K. audio products at magical prices! 90% revenue goes into marketing, 10% into products!"
 
Oh,how I have been wooed by the halo effect of the famous audio names.
 
Bottom line is,like most things in this world,if it’s really good it’s going to cost money.
 
“Buy Once,Cry Once”
 
The price of quality is unique in the print they leave.
.
You only live once and if you do it right,once is enough.
 
As in Magic,four elements appear in dealing with audio equipment:
 

---

1) Mystery
 
2) Surprise
 
3) Illusion
 
4) Spectacle

---

 
If I hear something by experimenting, it's not because "I wanted to justify my purchase".
 
Extreme audio is a fluid term that means different things to different people,but the common denominator is getting people out of their comfort zones.
 
Comfort is the enemy of creativity.It is usually good to break out of your normal environs...why not?
 
So,I am still trying to "burn in my ears" to the custom IEM sound,which is very much like having a .22 cal bullet shot behind the ear,bouncing around the inside of your skull.
 
Yeah,these purchases are all a part of my “get sublime sound slow scheme”...and it’s working.
 
Or something like that.
 
Surprisingly,the biggest complaint with  JH-13 earphones and upgraded accessories is my overall sound experience,albeit I have enjoyed the quest.
 
I like my sound to be as open and clear as possible,I like lots of depth and recordings where you can hear the reverberation of instruments clearly and hear the subtlties of playing.
 
All without the sound being too clinical or synthetic,very transparent all around so it doesn’t feel hardened,or colored.
 
It's difficult to describe without using nebulous audiophile terms and I definitely can't paint the reality of a preferred sonic image.
 
With FLAC/ALAC recordings,Sansa/Apple DAPs,Pico Slim Amplifier,Whiplash TWag cable/LOD and 6 JH drivers purring,I turn the digital Pico Slim volume dial slowly right.
 
“Come on baby finish what you started,I’m incomplete!”
 
Having these earphones is like having a little “Victory Red” devil sitting on your shoulder prompting “come on,crank those HD files.Do it!”
 
Only to have the Yellow Flag drop seconds before the Finish Line.
 
So,while these attention getting custom earphones may post a quality specification range,I remember:
specs don’t make music but they can change the sound - for better or worse,depending on what you like “hitting your ears”.
 
I am saying it sounds different,and that difference can be a pleasing,more desirable experience to many end users.
 
Me? Just not feeling it,at least not that much yet...a dysfunction shared with a minority.
 
Perhaps that is what happens when we have too many varied genres and expect everything to astound.
 
Now on to the petite Slim amp.
 
Out of the Sansa Fuze with a LOD came the best sound overall,compared to the two Apple products.
 
I could have the volume at full (same song) without the distortion that comes forth from the 1G Nano or 1G Touch.
 
Unfortunately,1G Touch could not officially be upgraded to OS 4.
 
Am I the only sadist on here that listens to the Pico Slim at full bore,straight out of the pipe?
 
With this amp,nothing happens until after the 9 o'clock turn,faint sound at 10,late night listening at 2 or 3 and then the full monty on a track I know and love.
 
Rockboxed Nano with the Whiplash TWag Micro LOD has the winning form factor.
 
How great is it to make a playlist from all over your desktop and if you’re lazy even drag and drop your 24/96 FLAC or WAV files right onto the player?
 
I know in Rockbox HD files will be downsampled to 44.1/16,so basically it just takes more room and processing power to play those but hey,you can’t beat it for putting together a quick and dirty playlist.
 
My favorite DAP for just hanging out or sitting down with,is the Touch
.
I rather enjoy looking at the album art in widescreen while listening to music with a line out that really does make a difference.
 
I realize with ultra portable sound the signal processing horsepower is not the ultimate.
 
Yet,we have some portable audio equipment that shows itself to be up to the task and I always feel the music,no matter how it is presented.
 
Who doesn’t appreciate percussive strikes that are detailed and full of character, hearing the snap of the bass drums and attacks that are not simply a kaboom?
 
I only trust my ears...bottom line,end of story.