JDS Labs C5/C5D (pg96) portable amp/amp+DAC
Nov 13, 2013 at 4:11 AM Post #1,532 of 3,412

xuan87

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Interesting... the blog post on the C5D was removed and the product listing is gone as well. The C5D in the treoo.com webshop in Singapore is showing a discount, extremely weird considering it's a new product.
 
Maybe they found a design flaw that will require re-production?
 
Nov 13, 2013 at 10:28 AM Post #1,533 of 3,412

zachgraz

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  Interesting... the blog post on the C5D was removed and the product listing is gone as well. The C5D in the treoo.com webshop in Singapore is showing a discount, extremely weird considering it's a new product.
 
Maybe they found a design flaw that will require re-production?


Could'nt find it on Treoo.com. Are you sure it is not the C5 which is indeed discounted ?
 
Nov 13, 2013 at 12:53 PM Post #1,535 of 3,412

jseaber

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  Interesting... the blog post on the C5D was removed and the product listing is gone as well. The C5D in the treoo.com webshop in Singapore is showing a discount, extremely weird considering it's a new product.
 
Maybe they found a design flaw that will require re-production?

 
Unfortunately, you are correct. We had nearly shipped to distributors when we caught a flaw that everyone had missed. Announcement has been posted here:
http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=818
 
  It’s with extreme disappointment that I must post this announcement: At about 1am this morning, we made the difficult decision to cancel all C5D shipments and pull the product from our store while we correct a flaw which did not appear under typical testing or listening conditions.

C5D prototyping began in March 2013. Production began over two months ago. We approved first-article samples based on the performance measurements published last Thursday. A few customers, along with Nick and I, have been enjoying C5D for months. C5D was also well received by visitors at CanJam 2013.

We were excited to have prepared over 75% of C5D units last night for shipment. Right as I shut off the lights to head home, I noticed faint background noise in my headphones. We spent the next 7 hours confirming that the error exists in the entire production batch.

Our good friend George Boudreau (ODAC designer) called late in the evening to brainstorm. The problem lingers this morning, so I’ve invited the best engineers in the midwest to work with us for a quick resolution.

What Happened

It’s standard to measure amplifier and DAC stages independently, and then perform a less rigorous inspection of combined system performance (amp+DAC). Anyone will agree that we thoroughly tested C5D’s analog and digital stages. We also performed basic testing of C5D as a whole. All tests returned well within expectations.

I’ve had a C5D on my desk for the better part of the summer and fall and have been enjoying it at home with several sets of dynamic headphones

The defect is a low level hum, below -80dB on most units (much quieter than a -60dB mute). Noise is entirely absent when operating only from the analog input, or when the DAC is paused or operating independently from the amp. Therefore, no one noticed all year. I cannot express how disappointing it is to find a severe flaw like this after a product release.

Orders

All pending customer and distributor orders for C5D have been cancelled for now.

A small number of C5Ds have already shipped, so we’re leaving the decision to recipients as to how you wish to proceed. Recipients are free to keep or return C5D. Any unit is eligible for full refund without contacting us. If you’ve already received C5D, try it out. Simply reject or return the shipment to our office if you do not enjoy it.

Reasoning

JDS Labs is built on a promise to deliver exceptional audio products. Over the past 6+ years, we’ve achieved high praise for products like the cMoyBB and C5, as well as for our lead distribution role of NwAvGuy’s reference grade Objective2 and ODAC.

Flawed performance is unacceptable. While we could have shipped all of the first C5D orders and corrected the problem under the table, I’m unwilling to risk our reputation on what is ultimately an oversight. It’s more important that we acknowledge and correct our mistake.

Therefore, we choose to continue our pursuit of excellence. C5D will be available as soon as we’ve satisfactorily corrected its performance.

 
Nov 13, 2013 at 1:00 PM Post #1,536 of 3,412

ostewart

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That's a real shame John. But these things happen and I think you made the right decision in cancelling all orders.

I'm sure you'll find the problem and get everything sorted soon.

Thanks for the update
 
Nov 13, 2013 at 1:33 PM Post #1,538 of 3,412

miceblue

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Hm, that's sad to hear, but I think you made the right decision to provide the best product experience for the end consumer and at least you caught the flaw before it was widely distributed.

Perhaps there is a grounding issue? I have a grounding issue somewhere in my electrostatic headphone setup and it creates a quiet, low-frequency hum sound.
 
Nov 13, 2013 at 2:40 PM Post #1,539 of 3,412

drm870

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Looks like mine might have already shipped. If it has, I plan to keep it, given the nature of the flaw an all. (Low-level hums don't typically bother me.)
 
That said...as a general rule, I'll repeat what you everyone else has said: You guys did the right thing, and the level of transparency you've had about the C5D's lack of transparency* (see what I did there? 
biggrin.gif
) is to be commended. 
smile.gif

 
*Seriously, though, I don't mean to rub it in or anything; I just love wordplay!
 
Nov 13, 2013 at 4:44 PM Post #1,540 of 3,412

Spadge

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I certainly appreciate the honesty.

Mine has already shipped.... but I will be sure to take a listen before I make a decision on weather to send it back or not. My stone ears might not even hear anything.

Good luck in getting this fixed. Hopefully it's a simple mod that I can do without sending it back (wishful thinking!)

Paul
 
Nov 13, 2013 at 5:12 PM Post #1,542 of 3,412

ThurstonX

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Kudos, John, for absolutely making the right decision, no matter how bitter the pill.  It's integrity, attention to detail and high expectations for yourselves, not to mention this open and honest transparency to your customers, that makes for very loyal customers.  I know I'll always look to JDS Labs first when in the market for quality products.  I have no doubt you'll correct this problem.  I hope the release, when it comes, is a huge success.  If I can justify getting a C5D, I will.
 
Not to be maudlin, but it's businesses, and people of integrity and drive like you, that make this country great (flame away, people).
 
Seaber For President!
 
(half joking :wink:
 
Nov 13, 2013 at 6:28 PM Post #1,543 of 3,412

A1Dan

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I own JDS Labs CmoyBB, O2 & ODAC. Was considering picking up a C5D. I still hope to buy one once it comes back on the market. To me JDS Labs stands for high quality products at a competitive price. So I've no doubt it's still going to be a top quality product once this issue is ironed out.
 
Nov 13, 2013 at 8:10 PM Post #1,544 of 3,412

Apo0th3karY

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Awwww no! Well this is a shame, but my wallet will thank me...

John, any time frame on when the revised C5D might be ready? I can bide my time no matter what - quality control is more important than my impatience - just crossing my fingers they'll be ready by mid January so I can get myself a birthday present.

And as much of a disappointment this news is, it'd be much more disappointing to have a 'flawed' product ship and potentially harm the products reputation
 
Nov 13, 2013 at 8:51 PM Post #1,545 of 3,412

howdy

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That's great to recall in order to achieve the highest quality product, it will cost a little up front, the end result is to gain trust in the consumer. I'm just hoping to read some sound quality differences between the C5 and the C5D, if any.
 

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