Japan earthquake and tsunami!
Aug 28, 2011 at 1:37 PM Post #211 of 279
The part that bothers me, is the lack of consistent numbers that are being thrown out.  Even during the event, there were numbers that were reported that were either too high for what was going on or too low to cause the level of contamination they were claiming.  Also, those numbers would change in impossible ways.  It is pretty obvious that the level of information sharing with the public at large is pretty low there.  I have a friend at the NRC who was part of the Fukishima "task force" and he constantly talks about how hard it is/was to get reliable information on what is going on.  The report from the NRC on the event that was disseminated to U.S. nuclear plants read like, "Well, we are going to tell you this... but it is only our best guess looking at some rudimentary and incomplete data because that is the best we have available..."
 
You can look at TMI, Davis Besse, etc... and find a bunch of numbers, and frankly a bunch of fairly incriminating statements being thrown out that are reasonably accurate.  I'm not sure what to believe with Fukishima.
 
Aug 28, 2011 at 1:46 PM Post #212 of 279


Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Well, they haven't talked about Fukushima on national TV in weeks, as if nothing ever happened there...but we got a lot of anti-nuclear groups that like to tell anyone listening that it's all covered up in order to avoid ppl realizing that nuclear power is not the answer to anything because 1) the plants are at the mercy of natural disasters 2) we have no clue about what to do w/ the waste. Both points are very much real because the plant that's the closest to my house got flooded 10 years back and we were this close to a terrible disaster(they were warned about this security hazard 6 months earlier, but didn't do anything about it
mad.gif
), and the germans have learned the hard way that waste disposal is not as easy as it seems...as several of their plans ended up badly to say the least.

 
What's sad, is there are some basic safety upgrades that could have been taken that would have alleviated a lot of what happened in the event, but they weren't for whatever reason.  We actually have an idea of what to do with the waste.  The French in particular reprocess the Plutonium-239 (since it is still fissile) to reuse in their nuclear plants.  Also, from what I understand, the Plutonium-240 can also be reprocessed.  Bottom line is the technology is out there to reprocess a great deal of the waste, however, in the U.S. and other places the fear of the byproducts of the reprocessing getting into terrorist's hands is too great, therefore those steps aren't taken.
 
Some more pictures, amazingly, I've heard units 5/6 are more or less stable even with all of the damage being shown in that one picture:
http://cryptome.org/eyeball/daiichi-npp16/daiichi-photos16.htm
 
Sep 6, 2011 at 11:33 PM Post #214 of 279
It's sad what is happening over there.  There is a lot of mismanagement going on with respect to the clean-up efforts.
Quote:
I hope this report is inaccurate.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcOol3KJscc&feature=player_detailpage

 
For this, it's like most things in the popular media with respect to Nuclear Power.  Some of it is true, some of it isn't.  One thing you can count on is a lot of misinformation, however.  For example, the Cesium comments are a little outlandish.  Yes there is the possibility that some people could have cesium contamination.  However, radiocesium isn't the most likely to even be absorbed by the body.  For instance, radioiodine (short lived; most commonly I-135 has a half life of 6.58 hours with a mean lifetime of 9.47 hours) and radiostrontium (Sr-90 is the big deal here with a half life of 28.98 years, Sr-89 is another one with a 50.52 day half life) are much more likely to cause damage to a human that absorbed these radioemitters.  This is because radiocesium is easily secreted via sweat, urine, etc... and therefore is easily changed out.  Whereas iodine accumulates in different parts of the body (most notably the thyroid) and strontium can slowly replace the calcium in bone, preventing expulsion from the body.  The big issue with cesium is the potential to contaminate (contaminate mind you, not irradiate) the food supply.  So, frankly, I doubt you would be able to take a frisker to grandpa and detect cesium unless he died via the chemical effects (which are potentially waaay more deadly).  Sr-90 is the issue (and I know that doesn't sound any different).  However, Sr is produced in a nuclear reactor via the decay of rubidium (Rb), namely Rb-87 (half-life 4.88x10^10 years) decaying into Sr-87 (which is stable; i.e. not radioactive) and since that will take longer than the universe is old, you won't be seeing any Sr-87.  Also, Sr-90 is produced in small quantities directly from fission and this along with Cs-137 are the most likely medium-lived nuclides present.
 
So to summarize, iodine (which should be negligible >~80 days after plant shutdown) and strontium, which could pose longer term threats are two elements of concern for humans directly.  Additionally, the best dose estimate I have seen was done by TEPCO (the Japanese company in charge of the Fukishima plants) put long term radiation exposure in the areas surrounding the plants at 1.7mSv/year (that is about half of the normal dose received in a year from exposure to the sun).  Long term contamination is more of a concern and what is causing the large evacuation area.
 
Remember also that it is more important how easily a radioactive nuclide can enter the body and how "well" it is retained once it has entered the body.  For example, alpha particles are high energy and high charge particles (relatively speaking).  But since they are relatively large they are easily blocked your dead skin layer or by clothing, etc... Whereas gamma particles are smaller and (since they have no charge) they can enter the body rather easily.  Your eyes are rather susceptible to this type of radiation (which is why I find it funny that the scientist with the TV crew is wearing a mask but no safety goggles and complaining about gamma radiation).  There's a lot more, but I won't geek out more than I already have.
 
Some links:
NEI responds to shoddy AP reporting
 
Some more pictures of the Fukishima Plant from just after the Tsunami
 
Dec 5, 2011 at 4:11 PM Post #215 of 279
Dec 5, 2011 at 7:46 PM Post #217 of 279
 
To be fair they did quote the NYT:
 
"In all, as much as 220 tons of water may now have leaked from the facility, according to a report in the newspaper Asahi Shimbun that cited Tepco officials."
 
Did you check out that Atlantic photo essay that they linked to? Great photos, nothing to grim.
 
Dec 28, 2011 at 7:34 AM Post #221 of 279
Interesting reading. Hard to put it into proportion I reckon. I'm a big believer in a modern lifestyle, including white foods (sugar and flour) slowly poisoning us, not to mention pollution of all kinds and other factors, so I tend to find people's focus on radiation out of proportion. If you look at every aspect of life, you could argue that companies that make money from things that essentially poison us conspire to limit the broadcast of the truth of what they are doing. However, if one spends too much time focussed on conspiracies, that in itself is unhealthy. So, overall, I think Fukushima has done a lot of damage, but so has almost every other major industry. Ultimately, the only solution for any individual is to buy a farm and live off the land, without reliance on anyone or anything except oneself, as, ultimately, we are the ones feeding these industries. Everything else is going to be a compromise to some degree.
 
I don't mean this post to start a debate, by the way, but to put things in perspective, which I think is the only way I can validly answer your question.
 
Jan 26, 2012 at 11:10 AM Post #222 of 279
Currawong and other Japan residing Head-fiers, how are things going so far?  How's the clean-up and the status of the affected reactors?  And how are the people of Japan in general?
 
Feb 29, 2012 at 4:26 AM Post #223 of 279
PBS aired an interesting Frontline episode tonight re this disaster:
 
"At 3:35 PM, the biggest of the waves struck. It was more than twice the height of the plant’s seawall.
 
"It’s now known that TEPCO had been warned by a government committee of scientists in 2009 that its tsunami defenses were inadequate. The company says it was still reviewing the matter when the disaster happened."
 
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/health-science-technology/japans-nuclear-meltdown/transcript-4/
 
Also:
 
"This contradicts previous statements from Tepco officials that the tsunami was an extraordinary event that could not be anticipated.  “It’s a bit strange for me that we have officials saying this was outside expectations,” Hideaki Shiroyama, a professor at the University of Tokyo and an expert in nuclear safety, told Reuters. “Unexpected things can happen. That’s the world we live in.””
 
http://www.fairwarning.org/2011/03/utility-engineer-warned-of-tsunami-threat-at-japanese-nuclear-plant/
 
This would seem to be the very definition of negligence but I'm sure it's much more complicated than that...
 
Feb 29, 2012 at 10:13 AM Post #224 of 279
Well, people never learn until something bad happens.  Now that it has regulations, on this sort of thing will probably be tightened up.
 
It happens with just about everything.  The "Engineering Disasters" series on The History Channel is a pretty good example of that.
 
People need to learn from mistakes instead of making some knee jerk reaction, saying "its impossible", giving up, and never trying again.
 

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