[swalker]

James Randi, arguably the most famous skeptic/psychic hunter in the world apparently has challenged a list of people from audio publications to an ABX study including Wes Phillips at SoundStage.
http://www.randi.org/jr/080504string.html#8

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this yet although I know there were some discussions about it on Audioasylum. Art Dudley of Audiophile has mentioned something about the test being "rigged" since all the participants have to satisfy Randi's requirements... at first my thinking was "hmm.." but unfortunately I read this from Dudley and I immediately began to question everything he wrote..

"But to say that none of those weird tweaks work is like saying that people who have located and dug their wells with the help of a dowser are only imagining that they have water: Science can't explain dowsing (yet), but there appears to be something to it. (And by the way, it's lots of fun to watch Zwinge and other "professional skeptics" dance around that particular subject!)"

Obviously Dudley has not read what Randi has done with his previous experiments and how they turned out or how controlled experiments have shown dowsers fail time and time again.

I am not decided on the topic of audiophile things such as the cable issue but seeing that nobody has accepted Randi's challenge does make me think about it, hmm....

 

[Edwood]

Never heard of James Randi, so I don't care about what he has to say.

-Ed

 

[oneeyedhobbit]

Hey, I'm all for him exposing things like rainbow foil as fraudulent.

 

[raif]

I liked the comment about living in a faith-based society, rings true, especially close to election time.

I would be interested to know what differences are truly audible and which aren't, though I believe ABX testing to be a little too abrupt for audiophile purposes.

 

[ampgalore]

Power cable gurus
Speaker cable gurus
Interconnect gurus


Where are all the "professional" golden ears? On vacation?

 

[daycart1]

I think Randi is pretty cool in general. If the thing could be brought off it would be very interesting!

 

[Publius]

RAHE thread.

See especially John Atkinson's comments.

 

[flecom]

i dont know who any of those people are, nor do i read any of those publications... so i dont really care

really what publications is completly unbiased 100% of the time?

all i know my setup sounds damn good to me and thats all that matters right?

 

[Ozric]

Randi is an opinionated, conceited man who lacks the true spirit of humility that is essential in the quest of scientific enquiry. I'm not supporting those selling audio products which make dubious and ludicrous claims, but as far as his $1 milllion offer regarding proof of psychic ability/paranormal phenomena, there are many very highly evolved humans who are quite capable of performing astounding miracles, but they choose to work far, far from the spotlight, and in quiet anonymity. Many such spiritually advanced men can be found in Tibet and Himalayan regions of India. They are not interested in trying to "prove" the subtle spiritual science that gives them the ability to perform miracles (such as the ones Christ performed), and so Randi will never encounter these evolved human beings. Money does not drive them, nor does the quest for fame.

 

[Bunnyears]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozric Randi is an opinionated, conceited man who lacks the true spirit of humility that is essential in the quest of scientific enquiry. I'm not supporting those selling audio products which make dubious and ludicrous claims, but as far as his $1 milllion offer regarding proof of psychic ability/paranormal phenomena, there are many very highly evolved humans who are quite capable of performing astounding miracles, but they choose to work far, far from the spotlight, and in quiet anonymity. Many such spiritually advanced men can be found in Tibet and Himalayan regions of India. They are not interested in trying to "prove" the subtle spiritual science that gives them the ability to perform miracles (such as the ones Christ performed), and so Randi will never encounter these evolved human beings. Money does not drive them, nor does the quest for fame.

Well, why don't they come forward and collect the money? That money could be used to do a lot of good in this world.

 

[sleepkyng]

i'll trust my own eyes and ears when it comes to just about anything so i could care less about randi or superaudiogoldenmonks in tibet.

 

[chadbang]

Great thread, I hope you guys picked up on the sub thread about the "man who could read records". Very interesting. I guess he could recognize the patterns of loud and soft passages on a piece of vinyl! What a true audiophi ... nerd.

http://www.snopes2.com/music/info/reader3.htm

As far as the audiophile snake oil items, more power to the Amazing Randi. About time these b*ll**** products get some bad press. I also see that those stupid Shakti Stones have raised Randi's ire. Heheh. I remember one of those lumps being on sale here at head-fi. Too funny. The one time I almost couldn't resist breaking the "no thread crapping" law.

http://www.randi.org/jr/073004an.html#3

Personally, I still feel dumb for buying a green Stop Light pen, even though that made a hell of alot more sense than a bunch of these other products. The things people will waste their money on...

Quote:

there are many very highly evolved humans who are quite capable of performing astounding miracles, but they choose to work far, far from the spotlight, and in quiet anonymity. Many such spiritually advanced men can be found in Tibet and Himalayan regions of India.

Like Si Baba in India? The reason he likes to stay in quiet anonymity is so he continue to bilk flake-oids with his slight of hand tricks and get rich. Why are these spiritually advanced guys always lodging up in a cave in the Himalayas? Are we still stuck in this romantic 19th Century "mystics of the east" hogwash? Nothing like an astounding miracle no one has ever seen.

 

[Ozric]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunnyears Well, why don't they come forward and collect the money? That money could be used to do a lot of good in this world.

Well, without derailing this thread into discussion about miracles or other stuff with religious undertones, let me just say this: these folks are monks, who in the spirit of renunciation don't concern themselves with the outside affairs of the world. And what they achieve through their meditative practice and spiritual discipline has far more positive influence on the world (in the purest sense; like the butterfly effect) than a paltry $1 million ever could. In any case, $1 million isn't really going to have any sort of impact on hunger or poverty in the third world, for example.

 

[swalker]

I don't want to see this thread go outside but at this rate it might have to I'll just say the monks will always win since they have excuses both ways

Back to the audiophile scene, I don't see what the big problem here is since I thought the ABX procedure is fairly well defined now and Randi's proposed conditions specifically says BOTH sides will work on the design of the test. Of course Randi has to approve the test but so will the other party. People against Randi always emphasize the fact Randi has to approve the test while conviniently leaving out the part about the participant.

I always have been a fan of Randi ever since my childhood even though I believe in religion and do not always agree with his rather stern stance but I must say that I have become far more skeptical about the audiophile scene because the excuses I hear from them are eerily similar to what quacks from other sectors have used - "Randi's just a fame-seeker who's there to destroy something so pleasant and beautiful for his own deeds," "the test will be designed by Randi and how could I perform under his unfair demands?" "The test will be rigged either way to protect his million." (By the way, it's NOT Randi's million dollars. AFAIK The money's held by a third party and most of the money is not from Randi), etc, etc. They are covering all the bases.

I am not sure if the challenge includes cables, or even amplifiers, etc but it'll be interesting to see if anyone takes the challenge in its current form. I predict all the challenge will be ignored and the "golden ears" will keep giving their excuses.

 

[Bunnyears]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozric Well, without derailing this thread into discussion about miracles or other stuff with religious undertones, let me just say this: these folks are monks, who in the spirit of renunciation don't concern themselves with the outside affairs of the world. And what they achieve through their meditative practice and spiritual discipline has far more positive influence on the world (in the purest sense; like the butterfly effect) than a paltry $1 million ever could. In any case, $1 million isn't really going to have any sort of impact on hunger or poverty in the third world, for example.

One million dollars can buy a lot of penicillin for use in a third world country. It can also feed a lot of starving children in Bolivia. Just because $1,000,000 is pocket change in the US budget, doesn't make it insignificant. Try giving it to Doctors without Borders, or even to Unicef (although I'm no longer sure that any UN agency is graft free). If I was a poor child in the Phillipines with a cleft lip, I know I would be very greatful to someone who helped pay for the surgery that corrected that defect. And I'd rather put my faith in the man who goes out and does something for one child, than the man who sits by himself in a cave contemplating world peace.