[NamelessPFG]

HRTF surround filters are always going to be a personal preference thing. Maybe it can be done so much better than the way CMSS-3D Headphone and Dolby Headphone currently do it, with minimal impact on sound quality for all I know. As I've said before, I leave it off for music playback due to the sound quality hit (I can't even enable it anyway because if I'm seriously listening to music, I'm using foobar2000 with ASIO output, bit-matched), but turn it on in games for the imaging increase, since they rarely have audiophile-grade audio anyway.
 
*fires up RightMark 3DSound positioning test again, this time with CMSS-3D off* Well, this is unusual. There's still some slight front/back imaging cues I wouldn't expect with no HRTF filter, so it isn't just pure stereo. I'll have to experiment a little more to find the ideal setup, at least as much as these AD700s will allow. (Still curious if Stax or Ultrasone can bring even better imaging than what I'm getting now at the $200-300 mark.)
 
Also, exactly what extension cable are you using? I hope it's not one of the crazy expensive ones like people tend to get for the Pro 900s.

 

[Roller]

NamelessFPG, what extension cable are you talking about that people get for Pro 900s? Are you talking about an extension cable or an aftermarket cable?

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

Quote:

HRTF surround filters are always going to be a personal preference thing. Maybe it can be done so much better than the way CMSS-3D Headphone and Dolby Headphone currently do it, with minimal impact on sound quality for all I know. As I've said before, I leave it off for music playback due to the sound quality hit (I can't even enable it anyway because if I'm seriously listening to music, I'm using foobar2000 with ASIO output, bit-matched), but turn it on in games for the imaging increase, since they rarely have audiophile-grade audio anyway.
 
*fires up RightMark 3DSound positioning test again, this time with CMSS-3D off* Well, this is unusual. There's still some slight front/back imaging cues I wouldn't expect with no HRTF filter, so it isn't just pure stereo. I'll have to experiment a little more to find the ideal setup, at least as much as these AD700s will allow. (Still curious if Stax or Ultrasone can bring even better imaging than what I'm getting now at the $200-300 mark.)
 
Also, exactly what extension cable are you using? I hope it's not one of the crazy expensive ones like people tend to get for the Pro 900s.

Sadly CMSS-3D brings too much of an impact on SQ especially if using headphone mode for my taste even if we're talking gaming, it just annoys me too much. If using 2.1 or 5.1 speakermode it will impact SQ a lot less but the positioning is a bit less clear. I seem to get quite good positioning already if set to 5.1 speakers in Creative's software without CMSS-3D and I don't miss any rear channel outputs as shown in the picture I posted it still only has front channels lighted up in the speakers section.
 
The extension cable is 2.5m and just a generic one I bought in a local store for around $10. The thing is I hear a difference even between other cables, not just this one but this cable in particular brings the biggest change to soundstage. Using a thin portable cable I got with the ZO amp for example the sound is a little more cold/bright, the other more traditional thicker stereo cable I got sounds a bit warmer, there's perhaps little difference in the soundstage too, the thin cable have more laid-back presentation and the thicker one is a bit more forward sounding. The Extension cable is a bit warmer and neither laid-back or forward but widens the soundstage a bit. Then if combining the extension cable with those 2 different stable cables there will also be some difference but not that huge but using the thicker generic stereo cable with it like I am now I get the best result and I'm like very satisfied with how it sounds. You may believe what you want but for me there's no question that it I'm not experiencing placebo, the difference is bigger than some of the EQ tweaking I do sometimes.

 

[tom2011]

the 5m cable does it came with creative
 
the equlizer is better in x-fi or Audigy 2 ZS/kX Audio drivers

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

Quote:

the 5m cable does it came with creative
 
the equlizer is better in x-fi or Audigy 2 ZS/kX Audio drivers

I didn't get any stereo cables with Titanium HD, only 2 optical cables. It's not one 5m cable I'm using, it's 2.5m extension cable + aprox 2 ~ 2.5m stereo cable at the moment. 
 
I'd say they are very close, I'd give slight edge to kX Audio driver's one because you get 0.1 increments for better accuracy and I'd still say it colors the frequencies slightly less and therefore sounds more natural (like a natural extension of the headphone's sound) but there's very little difference in this regard, to some people maybe not distinguishable at all, they both sound more like a hardware EQ solution than software based. Also you can even use MULTIPLE 10-band EQs with kX Audio drivers either for EQing different channels separately or just if +/- 12 isn't enough add another to be able to play with a +/- 24 or why not use 3 for a -/+ 36 range I've only tried with up to 3 EQs in succession and tried out of curiosity how it would sound like with a +36 boost to the bass without lowering preamp (since no other options I know of would allow such) and it sounded like being next-door to a nightclub with the bass leaking through the walls, all the rest of the range came out very muffled/muted but to my suprise it didn't clip/"distort" though but my volume level were at like 5~9% or something though (but the bass volume was still at relatively normal volume at those levels)!
 
I'm getting quite curious to grab an ASUS card for comparision's sake now.

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

I tested comparing a bit with Bulletstorm now (another UE based engine game) and tested the positioning and I thought kX Audio almost had better working positioning (thanks to Surrounder+), there was a device that exhibit some noise that I listened to while turning 360 degrees and the positioning remain more smooth and accurate with kX Audio drivers. Weird huh? The smoothness especially I've always been satisfied with, it doesn't sound like virtual 5.1 or 7.1 speaker solution but it's a smooth 360 degree positioning thingie that follows accurately when you turn your view or you can position a running player in UT3 nicely and tell his distance/position etc by it. CMSS-3D does this same thing though but it comes with a SQ impact which isn't heard by the Surrounder+ plugin at all. kX Audio drivers may not have been targeted for gaming in mind but heh my findings so far is that it's actually works pretty well for it anyway like I've always said even if people insist it's a far inferior product to Creative X-Fi based cards with hardware EAX acceleration.
 
Also I get absolutely superb positioning with Source engine based games on kX Audio, especially L4D, the positioning of the enemies are really spot on so I can shoot zombies based on the direction the noise comes from. So perhaps I don't really need any upgrade as I already have pretty good working gaming performance even if it would be software based but it will vary a bit depending on game but most games I get very pleased performance with (only the newer CoD games, Modern Warfare and newer which I don't like for starters I've been dissappointed with so far).

 

[Roller]

Have you started configuring ALchemy properly, or are you still comparing your Audigy 2 ZS to the non configured Titanium HD? And yes, I know you have great results with kX, but I've already said stock surround virtualization features lower SQ IMHO. It's interesting you said Bulletstorm almost was better on kX I can't really go with the whole CMSS3D, 5.1 output and reverbs applied to games, that just doesn't feel right to me, but if you're getting the hang of it that way, so be it

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

Also UT2k4 performs nicely with kX Audio drivers with hardware acceleration + EAX mode, it actually works. Like it's perfect with the right amount of intensity to it as I don't have any EAX "volume" slider to adjust like on Titanium HD, just tested it as I haven't really played it since I moved to Windows 7. Yes I've configured Alchemy (not much to configure really).

 

[NamelessPFG]

 
Quote:

Sadly CMSS-3D brings too much of an impact on SQ especially if using headphone mode for my taste even if we're talking gaming, it just annoys me too much. If using 2.1 or 5.1 speakermode it will impact SQ a lot less but the positioning is a bit less clear. I seem to get quite good positioning already if set to 5.1 speakers in Creative's software without CMSS-3D and I don't miss any rear channel outputs as shown in the picture I posted it still only has front channels lighted up in the speakers section.

That's weird. Set to 5.1, but only the front channels are lit? I guess that's a Titanium HD quirk due to it only having stereo output in analog; it won't downmix with either of my Auzentech X-Fi cards when set to anything above stereo, presumably because it does have the extra analog channels.

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

I might concider recording some FRAPS vid comparisions with the 2 different cards in case in case I'll be able to record like "What I hear" with both cards.
 
EDIT: I tested it with FRAPS and yes it works so I'll be able to record it so you can hear it like I'm hearing it as well with the positional cues all there. Should be interesting enough for you to hear it for yourself I suppose. I think you'll gonna be suprised with the first comparision in Bulletstorm. ;D For me it's already a "holy ****" difference I'm hearing here.

 

[Roller]

Quote:

Also UT2k4 performs nicely with kX Audio drivers with hardware acceleration + EAX mode, it actually works. Like it's perfect with the right amount of intensity to it as I don't have any EAX "volume" slider to adjust like on Titanium HD, just tested it as I haven't really played it since I moved to Windows 7. Yes I've configured Alchemy (not much to configure really).

Ok, you saying that you have better sound because you lack a slider makes no sense to me, adjustment is what makes tweaking that much easier. You're forcefully holding on to the Audigy 2 ZS, and that mindset can hurt any new hardware you get that's meant to replace it.
 
Try Battlefield series, Battlefield 2, Vietnam, 2142, etc, those are good examples to show audible differences.

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

OK I worded that a bit wrong, I meant as in even if it lacks an EAX slider it sounds perfect as it is.
 
Well the first video is up, there's some volume difference I know but you can still hear the positioning differences. Windows Live Movie maker also makes the sound a little more silent despite using max volume for the clips which is annoying but whatever.
 

 

[tom2011]

in win xp and 7
 
there is deffrent sound quality
 
if you you buy regular titanium so you make comparison between win xp and 7
 
i hear deffrent sound in any sound card between win xp and 7
 
also you dont have to use alchemy if it dosent work
 
you said you want to buy xonar ok buy and make comparison

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

Yea I heard differences between XP and Win 7 as well and suprisingly kX Audio drivers even sounded slightly better in Win 7 (clearer and better bass quality). Titanium HD doesn't even have support for Win XP but I don't plan on going back to this OS any longer.
 
Here's the 2nd vid comparision, UT2k4 this time both cards run in hardware acceleration + EAX mode. Suprisingly yet again IMO kX Audio drivers seems to have the best positioning. If you listen closely you'll hear how dynamicly it changes with kX Audio drivers, the positioning changes during the sound effect is being played and won't be limited to the position when the sound effect was started. 
 

 

[tom2011]

if you want to do comparison you can install two os in one pc