[genclaymore]

The X-FI HD card doesnt even have windows XP support just vista/7. The card has Stereo and 5.1 options in the windows audio panel as options to select. But yea I know the CMSS3D headphone being spread out when 5.1 is set as I did testing of it on prior X-FI Cards that I had. But yea op-amp combos will make the difference because on how they set up the design of the card to output using all the op-amps for rca and just the I/v  for headphone out. ST/X is design this same way with its RCa and headphone amp outputs.
 
Maybe the X-FI HD usb is setup different to not do it when headphones are detected on plug in.I dont have the usb X-FI HD just the desktop card. But then i recalled the usb X-FI HD being based on a different chipset.

 

[kn19h7]

Quote:

The X-FI HD card doesnt even have windows XP support just vista/7. The card has Stereo and 5.1 options in the windows audio panel as options to select. But yea I know the CMSS3D headphone being spread out when 5.1 is set as I did testing of it on prior X-FI Cards that I had. But yea op-amp combos will make the difference because on how they set up the design of the card to output using all the op-amps for rca and just the I/v  for headphone out. ST/X is design this same way with its RCa and headphone amp outputs.
 
Maybe the X-FI HD usb is setup different to not do it when headphones are detected on plug in.I dont have the usb X-FI HD just the desktop card. But then i recalled the usb X-FI HD being based on a different chipset.

hmm seems to be better designed than i thought..
 
i remember dolby headphone is disabled on st/x when using rca output?
 

 

[genclaymore]

When you have headphone set, the signal is sent out the headphone amp out, When 2 channel is set, the audio signal is sent out the RCAs. So you must use the headphone amp out on the ST/X if you wanna use dolby headphone in games. Tho certain movie players does have the dolby headphone option, as well as plugins for certain music players.

 

[NamelessPFG]

Quote:

well i tryed cmss 3d
 
its not that nice
 
you can try it if you had realtek
 
download moded drivers

The problem here is that "CMSS-3D" covers a few different technologies. One is CMSS-3D Headphone for HRTF surround on stereo headphones. Another is CMSS-3D Virtual for HRTF surround on stereo speakers. The last is CMSS-3D Surround, which upmixes stereo to play out the rear (and side) channels of surround speaker configurations. Very, very different, yet confusingly named so similarly.
 
I have no idea which one that software add-on package for Realtek codecs includes, but it most likely isn't CMSS-3D Headphone. I'll do some testing eventually (got a couple of motherboards with Realtek codecs, one ALC650 as part of an NVIDIA SoundStorm solution running XP, one ALC889A running Win7 64-bit), but I don't think it'll even come close to the proper X-Fi cards installed in both systems if it's CMSS-3D Headphone to begin with. Creative wouldn't want onboard audio solutions cannibalizing their sound card business too much, after all. (Unless the integrated audio in question is the new SoundCore 3D solution that's found its way onto the Gigabyte G1 series of motherboards, which IS based on a genuine X-Fi APU.)

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

Haha that's quite awesome about modded Realtek X-Fi drivers. I'm demoing them right now and hopefully I'll get some insight if CMSS-3D is something I'd like or not for gaming.
 
EDIT: I didn't like how it sounded like with CMSS-3D but the main problem is that you have to select headphone speaker mode (which is something I've always concidered sounding "grainy"/worse than using speaker mode in Creative's drivers, it's like they added their own equalization to headphone mode) or it won't work properly in these drivers at least as I'll lose the rear channels. I wonder if this might work different with a Titanium HD and its up-to-date drivers though. Hardware accelerated OpenAL has awesome positioning though but impacts sound quality a bit negatively (surely it would sound a lot better with a Titanium HD though). Seems like with the Realtek chip you get up to EAX 4.0 support too.
 
Also do you think the Equalizer for Titanium HD is a plain software equalizer and working the same as for all other X-Fi cards (or is there some DSP connections)? I really want a high quality EQ similar to the 10-band EQ in kX Audio drivers.
 
Wasn't particularly impressed with the reverb in this driver at least. Sounded best with it off but then again I'd really want a subtle reverb effect so it when you hit stop/pause button you'll hear a very quick/slight fade. It didn't sound very natural in these drivers, too metallic. EDIT: "Amphitheather" setting at -32 ~ -28 dB or so sounds the closest to what I'm looking for and quite acceptable.

 

[tom2011]

with moded drivers i can select cmss-3d with speaker mode
i dont have to select headphone
 
realtek support only eax 2
 
titanum hd has a little deffrent control panel than other x-fi cards because it has THX
 
this is equlaizer for x-fi xtremegamer
 

 

[NamelessPFG]

THX actually doesn't change the X-Fi Control Panel all that much; it's sort of its own separate control panel, apparently for tweaking speaker configurations. You don't get many options with headphones, actually. I know because Auzentech cards aren't THX-certified for whatever reason and generally locked out of said THX control panel (unless you can find a modified version that will work; haven't had any luck with the X-Fi Forte and Win7 64-bit, but it does work with a Daniel_K driver package with the X-Fi Prelude and WinXP, which I may have gotten to work on Win7 64-bit at one point when the Prelude was still in my flagship desktop).
 
The most important thing is that Mode button in the lower-left corner. From what I can tell, the X-Fi MB control panel (and a fair share of "X-Fi"-branded products) are limited to the Entertainment Mode panel only. A true X-Fi would have the Game Mode panel, which could result in very different CMSS-3D Headphone performance. Oddly enough, I'm not noticing much difference with RightMark 3DSound's positioning accuracy test between Game Mode and Entertainment Mode, but I do need ALchemy for it to work properly in the first place, not to mention that it's still using a true X-Fi card, not the X-Fi MB software package. (I won't bother with setting that up 'til later, if ever.)
 
Still, the best way I've found so far to get a feel for how it performs without actually going out and buying an X-Fi card would be to make sure you have all effects and filters off, outputting proper stereo to your headphones, and listening to that YouTube demonstration video I linked earlier, mostly featuring Battlefield 2 clips. It's very much like what it actually sounds like playing BF2 with an X-Fi and CMSS-3D Headphone on, and it's an especially good demonstration since it uses OpenAL instead of pre-mixing to virtual surround speaker positions. I even listened to it using a different sound device just to make extra sure my X-Fi card wasn't having any unexpected influence over the audio. If you don't feel like turning back a page, here it is again:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9WUz_aFaeg#t=2m16s

 

[Roller]

Quote:

Haha that's quite awesome about modded Realtek X-Fi drivers. I'm demoing them right now and hopefully I'll get some insight if CMSS-3D is something I'd like or not for gaming.
 
EDIT: I didn't like how it sounded like with CMSS-3D but the main problem is that you have to select headphone speaker mode (which is something I've always concidered sounding "grainy"/worse than using speaker mode in Creative's drivers, it's like they added their own equalization to headphone mode) or it won't work properly in these drivers at least as I'll lose the rear channels. I wonder if this might work different with a Titanium HD and its up-to-date drivers though. Hardware accelerated OpenAL has awesome positioning though but impacts sound quality a bit negatively (surely it would sound a lot better with a Titanium HD though). Seems like with the Realtek chip you get up to EAX 4.0 support too.
 
Also do you think the Equalizer for Titanium HD is a plain software equalizer and working the same as for all other X-Fi cards (or is there some DSP connections)? I really want a high quality EQ similar to the 10-band EQ in kX Audio drivers.
 
Wasn't particularly impressed with the reverb in this driver at least. Sounded best with it off but then again I'd really want a subtle reverb effect so it when you hit stop/pause button you'll hear a very quick/slight fade. It didn't sound very natural in these drivers, too metallic. EDIT: "Amphitheather" setting at -30 ~ -28 dB or so sounds the closest to what I'm looking for and quite acceptable.

A couple of things should be added. The unofficial modded Realtek drivers might allow access to the base level of 1st gen X-Fi cards software (read, XtremeAudio level, which means no hardware accelerated OpenAL or same quality level as a real X-Fi DSP chip) but the effects sound nothing like a real card, simply because onboard audio chips lack the hardware.
About EAX support on Realtek chips, it's emulated EAX, not real EAX, which can be seen through the flags recognized, and the audio outputted reflects that rather easily. Basically, it's an implementation more or less on the same level of the base open EAX support that's called through Realtek's own beta app (warning, BSODs and hard crashes are bound to happen).
 
Also, hardware accelerated OpenAL doesn't change the sound in the way you're thinking, that's far more related to CMSS3D, which works on both software and hardware based Creative cards (both Audigy and X-Fi alike).
 
Like I told you before, kX was unique in the fact that it didn't go through extra layers between the hardware and the OS, while stock drivers do run on a software level, which is offset with higher quality parts. Still, there are driver alternatives to be considered in the event you're not satisfied with the stock performance.
 
Of course you weren't impressed with reverb on a Realtek, those fantastic things alter the sound on a flat EQ, what did you expect?

 

[tom2011]

this is a program for virtual surround
 
http://www.astoundsound.net/
 
but it hurt the ear

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

Quote:

A couple of things should be added. The unofficial modded Realtek drivers might allow access to the base level of 1st gen X-Fi cards software (read, XtremeAudio level, which means no hardware accelerated OpenAL or same quality level as a real X-Fi DSP chip) but the effects sound nothing like a real card, simply because onboard audio chips lack the hardware.
About EAX support on Realtek chips, it's emulated EAX, not real EAX, which can be seen through the flags recognized, and the audio outputted reflects that rather easily. Basically, it's an implementation more or less on the same level of the base open EAX support that's called through Realtek's own beta app (warning, BSODs and hard crashes are bound to happen).
 
Also, hardware accelerated OpenAL doesn't change the sound in the way you're thinking, that's far more related to CMSS3D, which works on both software and hardware based Creative cards (both Audigy and X-Fi alike).
 
Like I told you before, kX was unique in the fact that it didn't go through extra layers between the hardware and the OS, while stock drivers do run on a software level, which is offset with higher quality parts. Still, there are driver alternatives to be considered in the event you're not satisfied with the stock performance.
 
Of course you weren't impressed with reverb on a Realtek, those fantastic things alter the sound on a flat EQ, what did you expect?

Well with hardware accelerated OpenAL option enabled in UT3 but CMSS-3D disabled it's a big difference in the sound which I didn't hear on the Audigy 2 ZS but it affects sound quality in similar way as whit CMSS-3D activated but I suppose that's due to the Realtek chip.
 
The reverb effects also aren't applied to a flat EQ setting, I tested boosting 62Hz slider to the top with EAX enabled, very audible change. Amphiteather seems to be the only reverb option that seems to provide "metallic"-free reverb.
 
As far CMSS-3D goes with these drivers I seem to get least of a SQ impact when speaker mode is set to 5.1 and upmix mode is set to "Stereo Surround" and the CMSS slider set at 35% ~ 50% or so. There's barely any impact on SQ, to a less extent than Dolby Headphone does (sounds OK even with music, I would go as far as saying I like it more when enabled, especially strong bass and mids remain more separated, like it would pick out the treble and put it into another spot separated from the bass) but then again it doesn't result in any huge audible difference regarding positional sound either. The higher the slider is set the better positional sound but more SQ impact. But the fact it doesn't ruin SQ is a nice thing if set like this.
 
Would be interested in hearing from people with real X-Fi cards how they think it sounds like if set up like that.
 
EDIT: Well I placed an order on a German site to see how much the total cost with shipping will be as it seems waiting for them to become available in Finland will take too long.
 
EDIT: Here's my current settings I very much enjoy with these modded Realtek X-Fi drivers.
 

 

[Roller]

That's the thing, no onboard audio chip has hardware accelerated OpenAL, none whatsoever. What you have is software OpenAL, with both (very) different sounding audio and a performance hit.
 
Well, I can understand the EQ usage, as I do find it useful to fine tweak the gear I listen to, but CMSS3D (or DH, for that matter) just doesn't sound right for me, at least not for music and movies.
 
I find it curious that you're running that specific EAX preset, as I find the reverb to be far too strong for my taste.

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

Are you using 5.1 speaker mode though? There's a night and day difference how CMSS-3D sounds like depending on what speaker mode is used and only with 5.1 I like what I'm hearing. With headphone mode it sound absolutely horrible also with 2.1 speaker mode it wasn't that great but with 5.1 it sounds a lot better for some reason.
 
EDIT: Also regarding the OpenAL, it still doesn't explain why enabling "hardware accelerated OpenAL" option in UT3 sounds very different on this Realtek chip with the modded drivers compared to the audigy 2 ZS which sounds pretty much the same if enabling/disabling that option due to the lack of support, it should function in software mode at least?

 

[Roller]

I think you're forgetting you're getting a stereo card, so you can leave that 5.1 thing apart. You won't have 5.1 as a selectable output, because the card isn't meant to output that.
 
And if I decide to use CMSS3D, I do find Xpand option to work out better for me as I don't want it to apply surround at all.

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

Quote:

I think you're forgetting you're getting a stereo card, so you can leave that 5.1 thing apart. You won't have 5.1 as a selectable output, because the card isn't meant to output that.
 
And if I decide to use CMSS3D, I do find Xpand option to work out better for me as I don't want it to apply surround at all.

Didn't we already discuss this? The point of the thread was to confirm whether 5.1 mode is selectable or not and based on some search it's selectable in the drivers (5.1 seems to be the only other option besides stereo). I wouldn't get this card if it wasn't, it's a requirement. I'm pretty sure you already said it was there.
 
http://www.overclock.net/attachments/sound-cards-computer-audio/211326d1305832428-x-fi-titanium-hd-speaker-auto-untitled.png this picture shows 5.1 speaker mode is used

 

[NamelessPFG]

The Titanium HD has a 5.1 option in the X-Fi control panel? That's not where I'd expect it, but it would make sense if it has S/PDIF and Dolby Digital Live and/or DTS Connect.
 
But as mentioned earlier, in the Windows sound control panel, there are apparently 5.1 and 7.1 speaker configuration options even with a stereo-centric card like the Titanium HD. As mentioned earlier, in games that detect the Windows speaker configuration and pre-mix their sounds based on that (which unfortunately covers a lot of recent releases as developers eschew OpenAL in favor of XAudio2), setting the Windows sound control panel to 5.1 or 7.1 and the X-Fi control panel to Headphones, then turning on CMSS-3D Headphone gives a virtual 5.1/7.1 speaker soundstage instead of mere stereo. Of course, it's a moot point if, for whatever reason, you don't even like HRTF filters for gaming in the first place. (It might still change a game's sound signature even without CMSS-3D Headphone turned on, though, if only because the game hasn't already downmixed everything to stereo and now it's the X-Fi drivers that are doing so.)