[indigo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rav /img/forum/go_quote.gif Gonna comment on this point, OP bought through TTVJ, which is where EMS was offered/paid for. It's possible that the info wasn't communicated between TTVJ and EarPeace, and if it's SOP for EarPeace to ship via standard USPS i can see why EMS wasn't used.

Still not OP's problem, though, especially if he paid for EMS.

 

[indigo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rav /img/forum/go_quote.gif T Our standard response is along the lines of, "sorry, we are unable to offer the level of service you require (at the price we're charging you)."

Think if that was Livewire's initial response, this thread might not even exist.

 

[Rav]

Quote:

Originally Posted by indigo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Still not OP's problem, though, especially if he paid for EMS.

No, but bashing EarPeace over something that might not have been totally in their control is a bit out of order.

Quote:

Originally Posted by indigo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Think if that was Livewire's initial response, this thread might not even exist.

Maybe it was, like i said, we don't know everything.

 

[indigo]

I agree to disagree with you, sir

. I think the OP has every right to post his experiences.

Let's just leave it at that until Livewires decide to post their side of their story, focusing on the issues at hand.

 

[Rav]

Quote:

Originally Posted by indigo /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree to disagree with you, sir . I think the OP has every right to post his experiences. Let's just leave it at that until Livewires decide to post their side of their story, focusing on the issues at hand.

Fairy nuff

Going to bed now, expect this to be locked by the time i wake up

 

[Gregious]

Initially this thread caught my attention because I've been frustrated waiting for a while for a Xin amp. Nowhere near as long as many others. I took the plunge to buy one on the opinions of many Head-fiers. I don't post much here, but I do read every day because it's such a great community. So many bright and helfpul people, and I learn something new every day.

That said, I think negative vendor experiences SHOULD be vented here (as responsibly and constructively as possible). If not here, where else?

Apparently Xin products are amazing. Livewires have a terrific reputation as well. However good the product is though, poor customer practices are unacceptable. There are small amp makers like Ray Samuels and Justin over at Headamp who are busy, offer consistently new and innovative products, and yet somehow find the time to respect the people who vote for them with their wallets. By the way, I'm not saying Livewires has poor customer practices across the board. I wouldn't know. I do feel comfortable expressing my opinion, however, that John's post (ONE post) didn't put his company in the best light.

I think Ivan has every right to post his gripe publicly. Sometimes that's the only way to get a small companys attention. If his story isn't true, well then John Diles has every right to sue him if warranted.

Regarding posting unsubstantiated slander on John Diles...John publicly posted a personal response. Some people thought it was rude, some funny. I highly doubt the expression of an opinion that the content of a letter he chose to post was "rude" could be considered slanderous.

-End Rant-

Thank you, and good night.

 

[PhaedrusX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rav /img/forum/go_quote.gif This thread (and the other one) have been a total witch hunt imo, with people all too happy to jump on the bandwagon with pitchfork and burning torches at the ready. I won't say that John's comments didn't surprise me, and i wouldn't have put things in such a way if i was in his position, but i suspect there's more to this saga that we have been told by the OP. I work in a small family run business, and it does sometimes become apparent that some customers are more trouble than they are worth, which i'm guessing EarPeace have found out. Our standard response is along the lines of, "sorry, we are unable to offer the level of service you require (at the price we're charging you)." I'll reiterate, my dealings with John and Andrew at EarPeace have been first rate and professional, and would recommend them based on my experiences.

your point about how a small family run business should reply to customers is taken, but completely irrelevant in this case.

likewise, your positive experience with livewires has no bearing on this incident.

furthermore, your assertion that "maybe" livewires did initially tell the customer that they are "unable to offer their services" is moot, as they obviously did accept payment for their services.

there is a not so fine line between blind customer loyalty and an objective assessment of known facts. i don't understand why it's so difficult to separate the two.

 

[PhaedrusX]

to gregious:
the slander doesn't stem from the rudeness of the response, but from the accusations [without evidence] that the customer defrauded the company.

 

[Gregious]

PhaedrusX,

Totally agree. My point was I haven't seen much slander against Livewires. Just offense at the content of a post.

 

[Gregious]

Anyway, what we're closer to is Libel rather than Slander.

If I read Diles' public post and express my opinion that its content is rude, I doubt that's Libel.

If Ivan is hiding half his emails in order to twist the story and publicy defame Livewires on these boards, that might be Libel.

If Ivan's story is completely factual, and someone repeatedly accuses him on these boards of being a thief and a liar without any evidence, that might also be Libel.

Who knows. Only The Shadow.

 

[soozieq]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregious /img/forum/go_quote.gif Anyway, what we're closer to is Libel rather than Slander.

Slander and libel are the same, ie; defamatory comments intended to ruin someone's 'reputation'. The only difference is that slander is the 'spoken' word - and libel is the 'published' word.

Slander is often much harder to prove as other witnesses are needed to confirm what was said - but libel is much easier to prove as there's a permanent record of the defamation. And: Quote:

Posting false and defamatory information online also amounts to libel

To call someone a liar and a thief (without any evidence) would fall into the libel category, I'm sure of that. So sure, that if it was me who had written it, I'd be editing it right now

 

[dj_mocok]

I don't know why it's so difficult for some people to see.

The point is, buyer paid for a superior mail service (EMS), and the seller posted it using el cheapo USPS (Either it's a mistake, or the seller wanna get a bit more extra money from the deal).

So now the item is lost in the post.

A company that knows how to run a business will acknowledge and apologise for that it's the company's fault for sending it using wrong postal service, and will send another pair of IEM ASAP with priority mail. This will result in happy customer, and great reputation for the company.

If the company doesn't even admit and apologise for ripping off the customer by using cheap postal service and even accusing the customer, then I think this company still needs to learn a thing or two about running a business.

It's much better to acknowledge fault, and make another IEM for the customer than wasting precious hours quarelling with customer and worst - giving yourself as a new company a bad name.

And I don't think KWS is a scammer. If I wanted to scam, I'd go for higher value item and not this one. And from the many emails that he sent and the way he wrote it, I can tell that he really hasn't received the item.

Actually I think KWS took this quite well, I meant if it was me and this happened to me:

- lost my money for ear impression
- only got a partial refund
- wasted my effort in countless emails
- had to wait for months
- and BEING ACCUSED!

I would give that compay hell for sure. What KWS did is nothing. I think what KWS did was perfectly reasonable (and soft I might say) by just letting everyone here at Head-fi know about the bad service.

PS: He should get a FULL refund. That's another wrong from the company. He didn't get the IEM, thus the full refund. You can only do partial refund (minus postage) if he got the item and sent it back to the company because he's not happy with the product. Christ, and some people still blindly defending the company.

 

[misterDX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj_mocok /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't know why it's so difficult for some people to see. The point is, buyer paid for a superior mail service (EMS), and the seller posted it using el cheapo USPS (Either it's a mistake, or the seller wanna get a bit more extra money from the deal). So now the item is lost in the post. A company that knows how to run a business will acknowledge and apologise for that it's the company's fault for sending it using wrong postal service, and will send another pair of IEM ASAP with priority mail. This will result in happy customer, and great reputation for the company. If the company doesn't even admit and apologise for ripping off the customer by using cheap postal service and even accusing the customer, then I think this company still needs to learn a thing or two about running a business. It's much better to acknowledge fault, and make another IEM for the customer than wasting precious hours quarelling with customer and worst - giving yourself as a new company a bad name. And I don't think KWS is a scammer. If I wanted to scam, I'd go for higher value item and not this one. And from the many emails that he sent and the way he wrote it, I can tell that he really hasn't received the item. Actually I think KWS took this quite well, I meant if it was me and this happened to me: - lost my money for ear impression - only got a partial refund - wasted my effort in countless emails - had to wait for months - and BEING ACCUSED! I would give that compay hell for sure. What KWS did is nothing. I think what KWS did was perfectly reasonable (and soft I might say) by just letting everyone here at Head-fi know about the bad service. PS: He should get a FULL refund. That's another wrong from the company. He didn't get the IEM, thus the full refund. You can only do partial refund (minus postage) if he got the item and sent it back to the company because he's not happy with the product. Christ, and some people still blindly defending the company.

i couldnt have said it better

 

[KWS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj_mocok /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't know why it's so difficult for some people to see. The point is, buyer paid for a superior mail service (EMS), and the seller posted it using el cheapo USPS (Either it's a mistake, or the seller wanna get a bit more extra money from the deal). So now the item is lost in the post. A company that knows how to run a business will acknowledge and apologise for that it's the company's fault for sending it using wrong postal service, and will send another pair of IEM ASAP with priority mail. This will result in happy customer, and great reputation for the company. If the company doesn't even admit and apologise for ripping off the customer by using cheap postal service and even accusing the customer, then I think this company still needs to learn a thing or two about running a business. It's much better to acknowledge fault, and make another IEM for the customer than wasting precious hours quarelling with customer and worst - giving yourself as a new company a bad name. And I don't think KWS is a scammer. If I wanted to scam, I'd go for higher value item and not this one. And from the many emails that he sent and the way he wrote it, I can tell that he really hasn't received the item. Actually I think KWS took this quite well, I meant if it was me and this happened to me: - lost my money for ear impression - only got a partial refund - wasted my effort in countless emails - had to wait for months - and BEING ACCUSED! I would give that compay hell for sure. What KWS did is nothing. I think what KWS did was perfectly reasonable (and soft I might say) by just letting everyone here at Head-fi know about the bad service. PS: He should get a FULL refund. That's another wrong from the company. He didn't get the IEM, thus the full refund. You can only do partial refund (minus postage) if he got the item and sent it back to the company because he's not happy with the product. Christ, and some people still blindly defending the company.

Thanks guy,that's exactly what i am currently facing.

,nice job for clearing the fact.
I cannot reply asap because of the time difference.If there is at 1pm then it would be at 1am in Hong Kong.
I tired to make it cool because i know it wouldn't be any benefit for me to fight back my money.If a were a fraud,i think i must go away and disappear in this forum forever.
Money is not crucial but reputation is everything for a person to strive for in the society.What i do is to raise the awareness of the members/potential purchasers.
Initially,before the last reply from Mr.John Diles,i tend to let it be and never ask for my remaining money.That's really enough to trouble me for these 3 months.However,i was told that i was bornt to damgae thier business and walk down to the railroads and listen to my "free"plugs. It makes everyone ,including me, bristle with anger.

If Mr.John Diles has come back ,please share the "other side" of this story.I think we would gladly want to know that.

 

[barqy]

response by livewires?

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showpo...4&postcount=13

edited due to massive amount of hissy fits being thrown.