ISN Earphones impression thread. New ISN NEO 3!
Oct 22, 2021 at 3:41 PM Post #3,016 of 5,044
I'll write the same in this thread too... If manufacturers recommend burn-in, why don't they do it and ship "burned in" IEMs? You'd think they want that consumers get "right and as expected" sound right from the start.
This "burn in" is just a period when our brains get used to sound particular IEM produce. Imagine spending 500$ on IEM and be disappointed on initial try. The more you'll be listening to it, the more you will justify to yourself that this wasn't 500$ mistake.
 
Oct 22, 2021 at 5:23 PM Post #3,018 of 5,044
Hahahaha... Don't listen to that Penon employee recommending burn in and just enjoy your IEMs. Soon he'll start offering new cables. To this day, there wasn't any provided evidence that burn in changes anything. Only real thing is that your brain gets used to that sound. Put your H40 on and enjoy and don't bother how many hours are in it. :wink:
I prefer sesame oil and so far it is doing the trick on these cables. Thank you for the insight!!
 
Oct 23, 2021 at 1:42 AM Post #3,020 of 5,044
For some dynamic IEMs, how do you distinguish it if it's brand-new products? By appearance or packaging? If someone uses a second-hand driver to make an IEM, how would you tell?
The brand-new IEM hasn't ageing to open sound . Once it has been aged for 50 hours, the speaker starts to open sound (the open sound does not mean that it has no sound at all at first, but that the more it sings, the better). How can consumers be protected?
Of course, the customer can ask the seller to burn-in it for you.
 
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Oct 23, 2021 at 3:25 AM Post #3,021 of 5,044
It is interesting that most IEMs that need "burn in" comes from your shop. Also the loudest "burn in" preachers are the one that are sponsored from you.

I've yet to hear that for example Focal Utopia, Sonus Faber Stradivari etc. needed burn in for optimal performance.
 
Oct 23, 2021 at 6:06 AM Post #3,022 of 5,044
It is interesting that most IEMs that need "burn in" comes from your shop. Also the loudest "burn in" preachers are the one that are sponsored from you.

I've yet to hear that for example Focal Utopia, Sonus Faber Stradivari etc. needed burn in for optimal performance.
Focal recommends it for their speakers: Speaker “running in”. They have even have a recipe on how to “run” the speakers in properly. IEMs with DDs are speakers also, just much smaller.

This running in period varies according to the conditions encountered and can last for several weeks. To accelerate this operation, we advise you to run your speakers for twenty hours. Start with pieces of music without excessive basses and with low sound volume. During the twenty hours, regularly increase the volume and change the style of music. Once the speaker characteristics are totally stabilised, you will be able to enjoy the performances of your speakers in full.

Kinda sounds like @Dsnuts recommendations.

edit: From what I have gathered FiiO, Penon, Moondrop, and Focal recommend burn-in or running in of their products. They make the items. They probably know something about the changes through use (playing music/sound) that will occur with the drivers in their products. If you know more than they do about their products and how the drivers in their products change or don't change over time, I am willing to hear your side.
 
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Oct 23, 2021 at 6:41 AM Post #3,023 of 5,044
To accelerate this operation, we advise you to run your speakers for twenty hours.
It is not unheard of for a system to continue to improve after 50 hours of running in.
This is far from 100 or even 200 hours some here claim is required, don't you think?
 
Oct 23, 2021 at 2:08 PM Post #3,024 of 5,044
Focal recommends it for their speakers: Speaker “running in”. They have even have a recipe on how to “run” the speakers in properly. IEMs with DDs are speakers also, just much smaller.



Kinda sounds like @Dsnuts recommendations.

edit: From what I have gathered FiiO, Penon, Moondrop, and Focal recommend burn-in or running in of their products. They make the items. They probably know something about the changes through use (playing music/sound) that will occur with the drivers in their products. If you know more than they do about their products and how the drivers in their products change or don't change over time, I am willing to hear your side.
These companies probably have tests that show, as they have for everyone who has tried them with microphones and braid graphs, that the frequency response does not change after burn in. That’s a fact. The IEMs measurably do not make sound any differently. We learn to hear it differently.

If they actually have graphs showing change from burn-in, why don’t they ever share them?

Heres my take:
- They are all audio companies

- No one likes a getting their product returned

- It takes time for our ears/mind to adjust to sound

- They probably deal with a lot of impulse returns from people not liking their first impression coming from a different FR

- If they said “try it for a week before you return it, you may learn to love it” no one would believe them or take it seriously

- If they state that the necessary acclimatization is hardware based and not mental, people take it more seriously, or
are happy to be more
dutiful about putting in hours.

- Mental burn-in takes effect, and they lose far fewer sales (and instantaneous bad reviews) from people not giving the item a fair chance.

Any IEM sounds better the longer it’s been since you were adjusted to a different IEM’s FR. They are simply increasing the chance of a favorable experience.
 
Oct 23, 2021 at 3:02 PM Post #3,025 of 5,044
These companies probably have tests that show, as they have for everyone who has tried them with microphones and braid graphs, that the frequency response does not change after burn in. That’s a fact. The IEMs measurably do not make sound any differently. We learn to hear it differently.

If they actually have graphs showing change from burn-in, why don’t they ever share them?

Heres my take:
- They are all audio companies

- No one likes a getting their product returned

- It takes time for our ears/mind to adjust to sound

- They probably deal with a lot of impulse returns from people not liking their first impression coming from a different FR

- If they said “try it for a week before you return it, you may learn to love it” no one would believe them or take it seriously

- If they state that the necessary acclimatization is hardware based and not mental, people take it more seriously, or
are happy to be more
dutiful about putting in hours.

- Mental burn-in takes effect, and they lose far fewer sales (and instantaneous bad reviews) from people not giving the item a fair chance.

Any IEM sounds better the longer it’s been since you were adjusted to a different IEM’s FR. They are simply increasing the chance of a favorable experience.
So you mean to say that speakers do not change over time? That cones do not deform over time, load, stress, humidity conditions, etc.? That voice coils do not burn out? Now the question is whether the inevitable changes can be perceived by our hearing before transducer failure. It isn't all in our heads as it is also...simple physics.


EXPLANATION OF HOW IT WORKS/ IS USED:

Explanation Picture

**The waves propagating from the cone seen here only represent sound waves (real sound waves do not look like these)​
Animation of Speaker Operation
  1. The electric signal passes through the wire in the form of an analog, sinusoidal (or other) wave
  2. The signal enters the voice coil, wrapping around the inner magnet (in the form of a solenoid)
  3. A force is exerted from the stable magnet structure to the free-moving voice coil
  4. As the signal's amplitude and frequency change, the force on the voice coil undulates back and forth
  5. The voice coil rapidly vibrates along the axis of the magnet structure, thereby vibrating the cone
  6. As the voice cone vibrates, the air immediately around it is pressurized and rarified.
  7. The pressurized air molecules propagate as a wave -- this is sound
I agree that before and after graphs and other measurements would be helpful. Good point.

Also, there are audio engineers and simple physics involved at each company It isn't just about marketing. You can have a different opinion. That is cool. I respect it.

If some of the companies mentioned or others would give us charts as well as test conditions for confirmation of perceived changes, I think that could resolve some disputes.
 
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Oct 25, 2021 at 10:30 AM Post #3,027 of 5,044
As an audio engineer, and my experience thus far. Yes burn in is real. Typically, for example, a new speaker suspension is stiff out of box. Like a new pair of shoes. So the speaker may sound a bit muddy initially. It can't flex and mover freely. Over time, the suspension loosen, let the transducer oscillate more freely and less restrained. Like a worn pair of shoes feel completely different than new. This in turn is what we refer to as the sound opening up and tightening, usually improving sound and experience of said speaker. Will it be so, and the same in with every experience no of course not. Sometimes it may have happened at factory or will be much more subtle than other times but one thing you cannot deny is the physics behind burn in. Like I said my take and experience. Everyone is intitled to their own opinion. Many people end up not giving a chance to a set of iems or speakers because of what they hear on intitial listen. Which maybe correct, but most likely after breaking them in or burning them in you may be much more impressed with the sound they produce.
 
Oct 25, 2021 at 10:35 PM Post #3,028 of 5,044
As an audio engineer, and my experience thus far. Yes burn in is real. Typically, for example, a new speaker suspension is stiff out of box. Like a new pair of shoes. So the speaker may sound a bit muddy initially. It can't flex and mover freely. Over time, the suspension loosen, let the transducer oscillate more freely and less restrained. Like a worn pair of shoes feel completely different than new. This in turn is what we refer to as the sound opening up and tightening, usually improving sound and experience of said speaker. Will it be so, and the same in with every experience no of course not. Sometimes it may have happened at factory or will be much more subtle than other times but one thing you cannot deny is the physics behind burn in. Like I said my take and experience. Everyone is intitled to their own opinion. Many people end up not giving a chance to a set of iems or speakers because of what they hear on intitial listen. Which maybe correct, but most likely after breaking them in or burning them in you may be much more impressed with the sound they produce.
Someone who actually knew what burn-in really means.:clap:
 
Oct 27, 2021 at 4:55 PM Post #3,030 of 5,044
Interested to see how the ISN H50 turns out. I'm a little late to the party on this one but my impressions of the ISN H40 are below...

Build & Accessories: Solid build with regards to the IEM, on the larger side, small ears may have some issues. Deep insertion difficult for shallow concha. Great quality of included cable – very supple, no memory, silver pairs well with a warmer signature.

Tonality: Warm L-shape to V-shape with upper treble roll off

Bass: strong impact, subbass emphasis, deep extension, texture and timbre retained

There has been plenty of praise given to the bass on the H40 and it’s certainly not misplaced praise. The DD here works incredibly hard. Subbass truly has some of the deepest extension I’ve heard in an IEM. There is an engaging rumble and great texture, followed by a respectful midbass punch. Listening to stand-up bass is a pleasure, timbre comes through clear as day with a natural level of detail. Instruments are managed very well with great resonance. The DD doesn’t have the quickest transients but it’s very organic and still able to cope well with electronic music.

With the midrange tuning at play (see below) the bass frequencies never fail to catch your attention and get you moving.

Mids: no shout, warm, reasonable resolution, slight recession

The midrange is interesting. It’s definitely not forward – something that became more apparent as I’ve (recently) spent more time with it. The large stage (another selling point to be mentioned later) emphasises a slight recession in the mids. They don’t feel empty or disembodied but neither do they feel the overwhelming focus of this IEM in busy tracks. I would have preferred some greater upper mid/lower treble presence to provide some bite and female vocal body. Tonally the mids are warm and rich and not lacking in detail or clarity, but certainly not what I would call analytical. Lower midrange vocals and instruments have some great weight to them that when combined with the bass boost and soundstage gives the impression of listening to larger over-ears.

Having expressed my reservations, and having a preference for a forward midrange, the choice of tuning here does offer an unique presentation of the music. A very old-school ‘speaker-like’ presentation wherein the bass encompasses and supports with a very engaging atmosphere around the midrange. Thankfully, the midrange never feels cluttered by this bassy embrace and things aren’t obscured in the process.

Treble: good definition, no sibilance, upper treble roll off, minimal if any treble air

The treble is not offensive. It is far from piercing but has good definition and it is void of any sibilance in the uppermids / lower treble. The tuning ensures that the overall tonality remains warm, full-bodied and organic. It also allows you to throw up the volume to bask in the joy that is the low end. As a personal preference I would have liked some more ultrahigh treble extension to round out the signature and enhance the sense of space further.

Technicalities:

The second selling point beyond the bass on the ISN H40 is the soundstage. It’s excellent and reaches very wide beyond the ear. This makes the lack of air in the treble much more forgiving on the overall presentation. Imaging is good with elements of the tracks in their own space and a fair capacity to deal with layered elements.

Conclusion:

Since my very first listen a unique and appealing character shone through with the ISN H40. It’s bold and self-assured in its character but never abrasive. It works for most genres of music with Hip Hop and Metal being two strong areas in my experience where you need full bodied lower mids, good bass and no shrill or invasive treble. ISN have produced a fun IEM that represents excellent value for money and would be my choice of hybrid below $200.

Cheers and happy listening!

_DSC2496.jpg
 
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