IS the electro static headphone system the bEST??

Jul 10, 2005 at 4:47 PM Post #31 of 59
Interesting that nobody mentions the AKG K-1000. I personally think it's the best dynamic headphone in the world, but is it disqualified because it technically is an "ear speaker?"
 
Jul 10, 2005 at 4:56 PM Post #32 of 59
Well, before listening to my modded K340 [a hybrid], my favourite headphones were electrostatic... the Stax SR404's. They are still one of my favourites, but I would say that the dynamic K1000's are now my second favourite. I am very interested in hearing the K3000, as it may have what it takes to dethrone the K340 from my number one position.
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Of course I also would like to hear the HE90/O2/HE60 as well, but I'm not really looking to move over to a pure electrostatic rig yet since that would require a lot of work and expense.
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Jul 10, 2005 at 5:03 PM Post #33 of 59
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nik
I never heard a BO, but I think impossible they have the same impact of a dynamic cans...

Best!
Nicola


BO = Big Orpheus or HE90, I'm guessing.

Based on my experience with the HE90/HEV90 system, my response would be this:

On some technical level for some technical reasons having nothing to do with anything that I even remotely care about as a headphone listener, you may be right about the Orpheus not having the same impact as dynamic cans. Here, I'm assuming that you're referring to the bass impact mostly. But it is absolutely beyond my ears to pick up on any such "flaw", whatever it might be.

So my counter point would be that the weakness that you're guessing is there (or must be there, or ought to be there) really isn't there for me, while the weakness you've described with the Qualia 010 (not sounding natural) most likely would be there for me. As I've mentioned, I've only heard the Qualia 010 briefly and without anything close to a perfect fit. Yet, I was able to figure out a way of holding them in place which gave me a pretty good idea of their sound. It seemed, to me, to be very much like what so many others have described. Magnificent in every way, but still not natural sounding. This was on the PPX3-SLAM. I wish I would have tried them on (Hirsch's to be) SDS-XRL which was right there at the same table. Oh well, another time!
 
Jul 10, 2005 at 5:13 PM Post #34 of 59
Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeg
The thread starter (i.e., me) appreciates any, and all of your comments. It's a fine discussion...


Mike, unless you are not wearing socks today, I believe that distinction for this thread at least, belongs to nakedtoes! But thanks for your endorsement of my rants anyway. I agree that these discussions are fun, and hopefully our unshod friend does as well. I'm sure he'll chime in if we are somehow stepping on his toes... Ok, enough toe jokes!
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Quote:

Also BTW, how come there is so little mention of Koss as a producer of electrostatic headphones. Have they been dismissed by the elites among us who consider themselves to be upper crust audiophiles? Or perhaps this group dismisses the Koss product because of its much lower price. Anyway, I appologize for my minor rant.


This is a good question. I don't know a thing about them and suspect that not too many other people at head-fi do either (except perhaps for those who have been in the audio hobby for years and years... i.e., oldtimers!!!).
 
Jul 10, 2005 at 5:30 PM Post #35 of 59
For what it's worth, I didn't quite like the Stax SR-404 paired with the Stax SRM-313 amp. Although it did everything very well such as transparency, liquidity, resolution, balance, soundstage, etc., somehow the music felt too ethereal and detached to a certain degree; even sterile at times. The Stax didn't give me anything to bite if that makes any sense. It was like being put into an ivory tower whereas with the Sennheiser HD 650 for instance, I feel like standing on bare ground - dirt and all. When listening to the Stax, I either focused too strongly on the individual instruments and details (which the Stax provides in a very effortless way nonetheless) or my mind simply drifted away. I was never able to enter an emotional state of absolute content. So for lack of any missing technical capabilities it must simply be a preference thing.

I'd love to hear the HE90 someday and will hear a pair of Omega IIs soon if everything goes well. I just hope I won't like them too much.
 
Jul 10, 2005 at 5:38 PM Post #36 of 59
Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeg
Also BTW, how come there is so little mention of Koss as a producer of electrostatic headphones.


Being a proud owner of a Koss ESP-950, I shamelessly plug it at every opportunity I get! Audiophiles be damned, this is really nice and cheap to boot!
 
Jul 10, 2005 at 7:48 PM Post #37 of 59
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nik
I had all the electrostatics (exept the BO), but all I had with all the drivers I used with them, respect to any dynamic cans have less IMPACT ! This is sure, maybe is the highest transparece of the electrostatics... but I find this lack of impact not a positive thing for a natural sound. The music we hear in headphones is not only timbre, tonal blance, bass or hi, med... but even the way they adopt to give the music to the ears of the listener.


Quote:

Originally Posted by saint.panda
For what it's worth, I didn't quite like the Stax SR-404 paired with the Stax SRM-313 amp. Although it did everything very well such as transparency, liquidity, resolution, balance, soundstage, etc., somehow the music felt too ethereal and detached to a certain degree; even sterile at times. The Stax didn't give me anything to bite if that makes any sense. It was like being put into an ivory tower whereas with the Sennheiser HD 650 for instance, I feel like standing on bare ground - dirt and all. When listening to the Stax, I either focused too strongly on the individual instruments and details (which the Stax provides in a very effortless way nonetheless) or my mind simply drifted away. I was never able to enter an emotional state of absolute content. So for lack of any missing technical capabilities it must simply be a preference thing.


My sentiments as well. I have quite some experience with electrostatics (Micro Seiki, Stax Lambda [Pro], Lambda Signature Pro, Sigma Pro, Gamma Pro, Omega 2, SR-404) and also heard the Orpheus and the HE 60/HEV 70 systems. With all of them I had the feeling of missing impact and relatively soft attack compared to good dynamic headphones. It isn't primarily the bass I have issues with, at least not in terms of presence and extension, but rather midrange and treble. As saint.panda has described, all of them have more or less that «ethereal» timbre and lack of substance, ground and grip -- which seems typical to me for foil membranes, not just in the headphone world. I can only intuitively guess that the reason could be the membranes' high degree of sound permeability facilitating the just produced sound waves to escape through itself or -- in other words -- not building up enough acoustic resistance against the self-produced air pressure. On the other hand, the soft foil membrane barely reflects sound waves, in contrast to the more solid membranes of dynamic transducers, thus produces less standing waves between membrane and ear, which makes for a special airiness and accuracy. Unfortunately this advantage is partly sacrificed by the electrode grids forming a sort of pressure chamber in that they force the air molecules to get accelerated during their passage through the holes, which adds a trace of sharpness in the upper end, together with its reflective properties which again adds a slight metallic halo to the sound. This specific coloration can absolutely contribute to the impression of detail and resolution, but unfortunately rather in the sense of a high-tech flavor than naturalness. So all things together I prefer the more natural approach of the dynamic principle, knowing that the electrostatic principle enables higher resolution. But as others have experienced, music listening isn't about detail, but about music. The dynamic transducers' more conservative (and accurate, IMO) way of presenting detail serves this purpose better, IMO. Electrostatics don't touch me emotionally and sensually as much as the best dynamic cans do. Their sound isn't direct enough. Both figuratively and literally. In turn they are quite easy and laid-back to listen to for the same reason and for their lack of obvious resonances and distortions as well as their high transparency which makes hearing the details effortless.

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Jul 10, 2005 at 8:00 PM Post #38 of 59
Nothing to add, JaZZ !!!

Best!
Nicola
 
Jul 10, 2005 at 8:17 PM Post #39 of 59
Nice post, JaZZ. This is what I needed to read to fully understand what so many people seem to be trying to say about what they view as the weakness of electrostats.

I must admit that I've experienced what you've described with elstrostat speakers (I've got a pair of Martin Logan Aerius), and miss that chest thumping sensation that dynamic drivers produce. And with the Omega II's, to some extent I get that same "something is missing" feeling in terms of lack of impact. I just don't get this with the HE90's and now I'm hoping that I don't start listening too carefully for this "flaw" for fear that I'll actually hear it! That would spoil the fun and delusion I've been having with them, thinking they are perfect (for me at least).
 
Jul 10, 2005 at 8:25 PM Post #40 of 59
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wmcmanus
And with the Omega II's, to some extent I get that same "something is missing" feeling in terms of lack of impact.


Suggestion re: thumping bass, try the X-feed. Bass thump restored in electrostatics.
 
Jul 10, 2005 at 8:33 PM Post #41 of 59
Quote:

Originally Posted by fmplautus
Interesting that nobody mentions the AKG K-1000. I personally think it's the best dynamic headphone in the world, but is it disqualified because it technically is an "ear speaker?"


What disqualifies it, at least form me, is its high level of discomfort. Not for large heads
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Jul 10, 2005 at 8:40 PM Post #42 of 59
Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeg
It's sad that Stax is satisfied with the Omega II, which everyone seems to agree has inferior performance to the 15+ year old HE90.


Given the price discrepancy, your contention is ludicrous.

jesse
 
Jul 10, 2005 at 8:46 PM Post #44 of 59
Quote:

Originally Posted by kartik
Suggestion re: thumping bass, try the X-feed. Bass thump restored in electrostatics.



Or an EQ. Zero problems with bass here, and after adjusting the flavour the O2 deals the HD650 a total smackdown. On a note separate from the flavour differences which most people seem to judge sound quality on, the techical superiority is never in doubt.
 
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